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What chassis (besides the C8) deserves this engine?
I know this is a bit off topic, but there will soon be a mid engine platform available from GM and not from a Fiero. Just curious what chassis comes to mind with dropping this drivetrain into (assuming a crate engine and trans combo from GM).
I was thinking a Pantera or a GT40 Replica (yes - a Ford). There are plenty of 308's and 328 "F" cars with dead engines that could use a refit too.
It's the transaxle that really would make the difference though IMO. Imagine a LT2 and M1L 8 speed in a 2500 lb car instead of a 3600 lb one. Even an LS3 mated to an M1L8 would be nice...
Heck the LS3 is still the go to and will always be for hotrods lol..
The better question to me is which dohc config will the 2023 or 2024 C8 have? TT at what liter? No way they switch without even base getting two snails on it eg porsche.
Love the Pantera. And it would be great to have a Chevy in the back of one.
Your GOP sickle and hammer jpg made me chuckle, as if you listen to today's dem's they sound just like Lenin in 1917. Having said that, the Pantera would be a good choice.
Last edited by usrodeo4; Nov 16, 2019 at 02:43 PM.
Your GOP sickle and hammer jpg made me chuckle, as if you listen to today's dem's they sound just like Lenin in 1917. Having said that, the Pantera would be a good choice.
Were u old enough in 1917 to hear Lenin? And why would have been in the Soviet Union?
Thx for confirming my choice of Pantera. I recall seeing it for the first time at a Lincoln Mercury store in Manhattan. $10k sticker in ‘71.
Your GOP sickle and hammer jpg made me chuckle, as if you listen to today's dem's they sound just like Lenin in 1917. Having said that, the Pantera would be a good choice.
"Hall still isn't selling any of his original cars. But what he is doing, along with former General Motors engineer Jim Musser, is building perfect replicas of the tall-winged 2E Can-Am car from 1966, the first racing car designed from the outset to harness downforce, as we now know it.""The plan is to build five or six examples, priced to make enough money to fund an endowment that will keep the originals running, as it's expensive to transport and maintain old racing cars. Hall and Musser aren't saying what the price will be, but an equivalent one-time competitor, the Can-Am McLaren M8, goes for about $400,000.
The continuation car is a perfect replica of a 2E, save for one or two detail changes. Currently, it runs with a 350-cubic-inch aluminum-block Chevy V-8 mated to a three-speed transmission. The engine is said to produce 524 horsepower at 5600 rpm and 574 pound-feet of torque at 4200 rpm. The transaxle in this particular example was an original spare, but customer cars will have a new unit. The wheels and the uprights are also original, but patterns have been made to produce new ones. The tub is made from a slightly thicker gauge of aluminum."
You know, if this thread is going to go down a rabbit hole (which it appears to have,) then not only a Mclaren M-6A, but also the LOLA GT-70. Those cars are historic.
"Hall still isn't selling any of his original cars. But what he is doing, along with former General Motors engineer Jim Musser, is building perfect replicas of the tall-winged 2E Can-Am car from 1966, the first racing car designed from the outset to harness downforce, as we now know it.""The plan is to build five or six examples, priced to make enough money to fund an endowment that will keep the originals running, as it's expensive to transport and maintain old racing cars. Hall and Musser aren't saying what the price will be, but an equivalent one-time competitor, the Can-Am McLaren M8, goes for about $400,000.
The continuation car is a perfect replica of a 2E, save for one or two detail changes. Currently, it runs with a 350-cubic-inch aluminum-block Chevy V-8 mated to a three-speed transmission. The engine is said to produce 524 horsepower at 5600 rpm and 574 pound-feet of torque at 4200 rpm. The transaxle in this particular example was an original spare, but customer cars will have a new unit. The wheels and the uprights are also original, but patterns have been made to produce new ones. The tub is made from a slightly thicker gauge of aluminum."
From Car & Driver 2007
How about the Opel RAK cars of the 20s. 1 2 3 and 4.
A modern P4. Very dated aerodynamically. The whole upper surface is a lift creating device. The drag required to oppose that lift would be a futile endeavor.
A modern P4. Very dated aerodynamically. The whole upper surface is a lift creating device. The drag required to oppose that lift would be a futile endeavor.
Big politics on that one. According to De Tomaso, the P4 was NOT the inspiration, rather the De Tomaso P70 was the inspiration. Peter Brock who did the P70 has said in interviews that he is honored but had nothing to do with the P72 design. The politics comes in as Glickenhaus accused De Tomaso of blatantly ripping off the P4/5’s design, combining it with that of the iconic 1967 Ferrari 330 P3/4 (which in turn also previously inspired the Glickenhaus car), and rehashing it for the P72.
“They put tracing paper over our P3/4, pasted on much of our P4/5, stole an interior from Horacio, pumped it up like a Vargas Girl and turned it into Anime. I see Koons not Caravaggio.”-Jim Glickenhaus “‘Copy:a thing made to be similar or identical to another’”-Jesse Glickenhaus
IMO, the P72 is a 60's retro-style Italian understanding of how aerodynamics plays into race car performance. That understanding led to the case of several Italian cars having extreme instability at the end of straight at Le Mans and at several other European tracks. The rear lift pulled the rear wheels up enough to do the damage.
Oh, the De Tomaso press release includes this print. Note the P72 "reflection" is the P70
Last edited by Kodiak Bear; Nov 27, 2019 at 06:15 PM.
Big politics on that one. According to De Tomaso, the P4 was NOT the inspiration, rather the De Tomaso P70 was the inspiration. Peter Brock who did the P70 has said in interviews that he is honored but had nothing to do with the P72 design. The politics comes in as Glickenhaus accused De Tomaso of blatantly ripping off the P4/5’s design, combining it with that of the iconic 1967 Ferrari 330 P3/4 (which in turn also previously inspired the Glickenhaus car), and rehashing it for the P72.
“They put tracing paper over our P3/4, pasted on much of our P4/5, stole an interior from Horacio, pumped it up like a Vargas Girl and turned it into Anime. I see Koons not Caravaggio.”-Jim Glickenhaus “‘Copy:a thing made to be similar or identical to another’”-Jesse Glickenhaus
IMO, the P72 is a 60's retro-style Italian understanding of how aerodynamics plays into race car performance. That understanding led to the case of several Italian cars having extreme instability at the end of straight at Le Mans and at several other European tracks. The rear lift pulled the rear wheels up enough to do the damage.
Oh, the De Tomaso press release includes this print. Note the P72 "reflection" is the P70
Jim Hall changed it all. Up until then, auto aero was done by aeronautical aerodynamicists. Pininfarina did the P4/5 and Ferrari wasn't happy about it. The Ford GT40 socked it to those P4s but they were the sexiest cars ever, next to the Jag E LW Type LW LD cars and Mitchell's 59 Stingray. Man, were they beautiful or what? Mauro Forghieri using the Stuttgart Polytechnic University Wind Tunnel designed the P4 and Malcolm Sawyer designed the E Type. Duntov objected to the Stingray's poor aero but Elvis liked it..
Jim Hall changed it all. Up until then, auto aero was done by aeronautical aerodynamicists. Pininfarina did the P4/5 and Ferrari wasn't happy about it. The Ford GT40 socked it to those P4s but they were the sexiest cars ever, next to the Jag E LW Type LW LD cars and Mitchell's 59 Stingray. Man, were they beautiful or what? Mauro Forghieri using the Stuttgart Polytechnic University Wind Tunnel designed the P4 and Malcolm Sawyer designed the E Type. Duntov objected to the Stingray's poor aero but Elvis liked it..
Peter Brock, then employed by GM, drew the Stingray under Mitchell's close direction. Peter had been reading some 30's German stuff in the GM library and tried to get Mitchell to drop the nose and lift the tail. (see Peter's above drawing, he wanted to lift the tail even more) But Mitchell would have nothing to do with that stuff! Some comment about customers not driving above 90 mph.. Reading the racing history of the Stingray, as successful as it was, is a litany of fighting bad aero. By the by US Patent 2,359,426 issued in 1944 is what Brock was reading or I should say "part "of the 1937 German version of that patent. .
This is the sketch that Peter originally made which Mitchell picked to set the style theme and direction he wanted. Note the difference
Last edited by Kodiak Bear; Nov 28, 2019 at 07:24 AM.
Peter Brock, then employed by GM, drew the Stingray under Mitchell's close direction. Peter had been reading some 30's German stuff in the GM library and tried to get Mitchell to drop the nose and lift the tail. (see Peter's above drawing, he wanted to lift the tail even more) But Mitchell would have nothing to do with that stuff! Some comment about customers not driving above 90 mph.. Reading the racing history of the Stingray, as successful as it was, is a litany of fighting bad aero. By the by US Patent 2,359,426 issued in 1944 is what Brock was reading or I should say "part "of the 1937 German version of that patent. .
This is the sketch that Peter originally made which Mitchell picked to set the style theme and direction he wanted. Note the difference
We are talking about the rich Corvette heritage.The struggle between the stylists, designers and the business men will always be there. The C8 has it's own heritage which is not Stingray. The origins of the Stingray were the Alfa Disco Volante and the wingless BAT 9. Mitchell was an Italian car fan. Why the C8 is not a Zora, I just don't know. Zora hated the Stingrays, 59,C2 and C3. Sharks are Corvette heritage and the C8 should look like a shark. If only Shinoda was around to guide the design. I don't think that there is a designer on earth than can design the C8 except maybe a guy I know in Australia, David Williams. This is the best I can do.
Alfa Disco Volante Alfa BAT cars Duntov's SS chassis (a copy of the 55 Mercedes SLR) 4 chassis were built and Mitchell used one for his Stingray. Mitchell's and my Stingray. C8 should look like this. Shinoda's version of Mitchell's Stingray Shinoda Shinoda Sure wish he was around to design the Zora. The best rear end of any car ever.
What chassis (besides the C8) deserves this engine?
