Who is working on tuning?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2019
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Who is working on tuning?
Is everybody just waiting for somebody else to figure it out? Or are certain tuners (Lingenfelter, Callaway, ??) already working with GM?
With the work others have underway with the clutches, engine tuning is the last major hurdle. Ideally we'd get to a place where the ECU can handle a turbo system, as it can be more complex than a supercharger.
Just wondering if there's anything we can do as the owner/enthusiast community to further things along. Want to see some real builds!
With the work others have underway with the clutches, engine tuning is the last major hurdle. Ideally we'd get to a place where the ECU can handle a turbo system, as it can be more complex than a supercharger.
Just wondering if there's anything we can do as the owner/enthusiast community to further things along. Want to see some real builds!
Team Owner
Joined: May 1999
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From: Auburn Hills MI
It sounded like GM is going to authorize tuning probably in exchange for VINS and voiding of the PT warranty.
I suspect it was a back burner project to start with and with all this virus mess it continues to be.
I'd personally prefer this. Come up with a standard. You tune, you lose the PT warranty but it is clearly spelled out GM will fix anything else wrong on the car.
Audi's new ECU was just cracked 2 months ago and it has been out since 2017 but I do not think it is as tightly integrated as GM's where one component checks the operation of the other like it sounds like GM does.
BTW, cam change, supercharger, turbo, doesn't matter. Air is air and in its simplest terms you measure air, provide fuel and something to make it go boom.
I suspect it was a back burner project to start with and with all this virus mess it continues to be.
I'd personally prefer this. Come up with a standard. You tune, you lose the PT warranty but it is clearly spelled out GM will fix anything else wrong on the car.
Audi's new ECU was just cracked 2 months ago and it has been out since 2017 but I do not think it is as tightly integrated as GM's where one component checks the operation of the other like it sounds like GM does.
BTW, cam change, supercharger, turbo, doesn't matter. Air is air and in its simplest terms you measure air, provide fuel and something to make it go boom.
Last edited by NoOne; May 3, 2020 at 07:29 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
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Cracks me up how the question of "Who is working on tuning?" was answered by username "NoOne" 
I suppose in a perfect world the factory ECU could be made to do things like control boost (boost-by-gear, or even change boost profiles based on drive mode settings), or control extra fans or pumps, but probably not realistic, at least until the factory turbo cars arrive. All the extra "magic boxes" to control every little function are such a hassle, before you know it the car looks like Jackie Chan's Subaru from Cannonball Run.
Have any of the aftermarket companies who read and post here had conversations with GM about getting tuning access? Anything that can be shared about those discussions?
I suppose in a perfect world the factory ECU could be made to do things like control boost (boost-by-gear, or even change boost profiles based on drive mode settings), or control extra fans or pumps, but probably not realistic, at least until the factory turbo cars arrive. All the extra "magic boxes" to control every little function are such a hassle, before you know it the car looks like Jackie Chan's Subaru from Cannonball Run.
Have any of the aftermarket companies who read and post here had conversations with GM about getting tuning access? Anything that can be shared about those discussions?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,559
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From: North Dallas 40 TX
Cracks me up how the question of "Who is working on tuning?" was answered by username "NoOne"
I suppose in a perfect world the factory ECU could be made to do things like control boost (boost-by-gear, or even change boost profiles based on drive mode settings), or control extra fans or pumps, but probably not realistic, at least until the factory turbo cars arrive. All the extra "magic boxes" to control every little function are such a hassle, before you know it the car looks like Jackie Chan's Subaru from Cannonball Run.
Have any of the aftermarket companies who read and post here had conversations with GM about getting tuning access? Anything that can be shared about those discussions?
I suppose in a perfect world the factory ECU could be made to do things like control boost (boost-by-gear, or even change boost profiles based on drive mode settings), or control extra fans or pumps, but probably not realistic, at least until the factory turbo cars arrive. All the extra "magic boxes" to control every little function are such a hassle, before you know it the car looks like Jackie Chan's Subaru from Cannonball Run.
Have any of the aftermarket companies who read and post here had conversations with GM about getting tuning access? Anything that can be shared about those discussions?
The GM system had massive capability to handle many types of engines and driveline configurations. They used the same ecu for many products, they just used different data tables and control parameters.
if it is true that the new ECU maintains itself in a closed loop condition an all throttle positions, then conceivably it could be even easier to tune...... once you get past all the security.
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Yea everybody and nobody. So if GM does it I am sure it is not going to be GM giving the license over. I mean that sarcastically not like a HP tuners license before someone corrects me. So it would not be the first time that GM sent out a Calibrator to get a package up and running, and it will pass emissions. I am sure this is how it will be done, they are not going to just allow anyone to build one of their cars that will not pass EPA. My guess is the first will be Hennessy, the reason I say this is that in one of his videos John Heinricy is driving his car. That is the door into GM performance.
Team Owner
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From: ...tearing up the highways, one state at a time™®©
Yea everybody and nobody. So if GM does it I am sure it is not going to be GM giving the license over. I mean that sarcastically not like a HP tuners license before someone corrects me. So it would not be the first time that GM sent out a Calibrator to get a package up and running, and it will pass emissions. I am sure this is how it will be done, they are not going to just allow anyone to build one of their cars that will not pass EPA. My guess is the first will be Hennessy, the reason I say this is that in one of his videos John Heinricy is driving his car. That is the door into GM performance.
Heinricy has been driving, I mean, paid by them for many years. Didn’t help their cause one bit with the C7, and from what I’ve heard in circles, he will drive for anyone who pays his consulting fees.
so if that’s the back door, there’s your key. But no data shows any worth.
Former Vendor
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We are in the same boat as the rest of the aftermarket. HP Tuners will probably be the ones to bring tuning to the C8 market. John Heinricy is a great man and driver and his reputation is impeccable. He only test drives for himself and for our company 
We are so grateful to have him on our team. But having him on our team does not give us any backdoor help from GM.
We are so grateful to have him on our team. But having him on our team does not give us any backdoor help from GM.
Last edited by HennesseyPerformance; May 5, 2020 at 10:31 AM.
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Heinricy has been driving, I mean, paid by them for many years. Didn’t help their cause one bit with the C7, and from what I’ve heard in circles, he will drive for anyone who pays his consulting fees.
so if that’s the back door, there’s your key. But no data shows any worth.
so if that’s the back door, there’s your key. But no data shows any worth.
Last edited by Zip Corvettes; May 5, 2020 at 12:47 PM.
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From: NJ
Yea everybody and nobody. So if GM does it I am sure it is not going to be GM giving the license over. I mean that sarcastically not like a HP tuners license before someone corrects me. So it would not be the first time that GM sent out a Calibrator to get a package up and running, and it will pass emissions. I am sure this is how it will be done, they are not going to just allow anyone to build one of their cars that will not pass EPA. My guess is the first will be Hennessy, the reason I say this is that in one of his videos John Heinricy is driving his car. That is the door into GM performance.
I'm sure it will be cracked. It's a computer and it may take a while but like that E99 or whatever in the ZR1 they go in and hack it up.
This global B architecture makes you wonder if it is possible to communicate with the other modules though? Those if the "handoff" doesn't check out does the TCM or BCM or whatever not function properly? Does the car become a brick?
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From: ...tearing up the highways, one state at a time™®©
Heinricy brought several tuners to GM calibrators. Without outing names he has been the common denominator in all of those situations. The fact that Hennessy commented on this further confirms this is the route. I am sure there will be a GM calibration engineer and is Inca software making any change they need to. GM is not going to open the flood gates to HP or EFI Live. That doesn't mean that either of those will not find a way though, but I think it will be awhile before we see it.
Confirms, what?
I still believe in Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny, and The Tooth Fairy. I do not believe your post. Sorry.
I do however, respect you and the work of your firm.
Team Owner
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From: ...tearing up the highways, one state at a time™®©
didn't HPT have some lawsuit over pirated credits and then it got dismissed because the mfr ECUs weren't their property to begin with or something? Could've sworn that came up about 2 yrs ago?
I'm sure it will be cracked. It's a computer and it may take a while but like that E99 or whatever in the ZR1 they go in and hack it up.
This global B architecture makes you wonder if it is possible to communicate with the other modules though? Those if the "handoff" doesn't check out does the TCM or BCM or whatever not function properly? Does the car become a brick?
I'm sure it will be cracked. It's a computer and it may take a while but like that E99 or whatever in the ZR1 they go in and hack it up.
This global B architecture makes you wonder if it is possible to communicate with the other modules though? Those if the "handoff" doesn't check out does the TCM or BCM or whatever not function properly? Does the car become a brick?
Full Size GM Pickup trucks are NOT being calibrated. HUGE Market for that. Much more than a niche market like the ZR1 which was a hack job, based upon what was put out there by others.
Global B. Far more involved than the GM Trucks. Waiting...
Last edited by *89x2*; May 5, 2020 at 07:57 PM.
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the manifold being taller looks ripe for another set of injectors or direct injection alchy
don't have ANY idea when the factory stuff can be cracked but I do have a few basic questions
1. is c8 a wide band closed loop at wot system?
2. seen some nitrous and twin turbo projects started, what are they looking to do other than make NO boost????
3. what is the issue with adding a separate stand alone system?
4. with GM architecture, can we "cut in" and modify engine controls without upsetting factory communications (give the factory ecm what it wants to see and use an after market system to do actual engine management)
with lots of bright folks out there, a solution will appear, shame GM is making this so hard and not catering better to performance enthusiasts which is what corvette owners are typically after
No c8 for me until performance mods can be unlocked :< factory car is plenty fast, I just like to tinker
don't have ANY idea when the factory stuff can be cracked but I do have a few basic questions
1. is c8 a wide band closed loop at wot system?
2. seen some nitrous and twin turbo projects started, what are they looking to do other than make NO boost????
3. what is the issue with adding a separate stand alone system?
4. with GM architecture, can we "cut in" and modify engine controls without upsetting factory communications (give the factory ecm what it wants to see and use an after market system to do actual engine management)
with lots of bright folks out there, a solution will appear, shame GM is making this so hard and not catering better to performance enthusiasts which is what corvette owners are typically after
No c8 for me until performance mods can be unlocked :< factory car is plenty fast, I just like to tinker
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2012
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From: Texas
I've tuned every vehicle I've ever owned, but in the case of the C8 I suspect this market/ activity is over, or at least cost prohibitive.
If it cost more than say $1K for a NA tune, really it's time to start saving your money for the Z06, What I'm seeing is the need to pull the engine for a cam, headers have limited potential because the C8 already has short tube headers, the aftermarket mufflers seems like they makes some power. So if they work out the NA tuning, what's it going to cost to get say 45 rwhp? $10K?
It does look like some of the bolt-ons are having good results. That said a $4K exhaust is a bit of ways to a Z06.
Love to see you guys push what's possible however.
I just sold my heavily modified C6 last weekend just because I never had time to drive it, but I still miss it terribly. But the thing is that mod money is basically money you are burning. The car had every bit of $35K in tasteful well thought out mods that honestly raised the price maybe $3-4K.
If it cost more than say $1K for a NA tune, really it's time to start saving your money for the Z06, What I'm seeing is the need to pull the engine for a cam, headers have limited potential because the C8 already has short tube headers, the aftermarket mufflers seems like they makes some power. So if they work out the NA tuning, what's it going to cost to get say 45 rwhp? $10K?
It does look like some of the bolt-ons are having good results. That said a $4K exhaust is a bit of ways to a Z06.
Love to see you guys push what's possible however.
I just sold my heavily modified C6 last weekend just because I never had time to drive it, but I still miss it terribly. But the thing is that mod money is basically money you are burning. The car had every bit of $35K in tasteful well thought out mods that honestly raised the price maybe $3-4K.
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the manifold being taller looks ripe for another set of injectors or direct injection alchy
don't have ANY idea when the factory stuff can be cracked but I do have a few basic questions
1. is c8 a wide band closed loop at wot system?
2. seen some nitrous and twin turbo projects started, what are they looking to do other than make NO boost????
3. what is the issue with adding a separate stand alone system?
4. with GM architecture, can we "cut in" and modify engine controls without upsetting factory communications (give the factory ecm what it wants to see and use an after market system to do actual engine management)
with lots of bright folks out there, a solution will appear, shame GM is making this so hard and not catering better to performance enthusiasts which is what corvette owners are typically after
No c8 for me until performance mods can be unlocked :< factory car is plenty fast, I just like to tinker
don't have ANY idea when the factory stuff can be cracked but I do have a few basic questions
1. is c8 a wide band closed loop at wot system?
2. seen some nitrous and twin turbo projects started, what are they looking to do other than make NO boost????
3. what is the issue with adding a separate stand alone system?
4. with GM architecture, can we "cut in" and modify engine controls without upsetting factory communications (give the factory ecm what it wants to see and use an after market system to do actual engine management)
with lots of bright folks out there, a solution will appear, shame GM is making this so hard and not catering better to performance enthusiasts which is what corvette owners are typically after
No c8 for me until performance mods can be unlocked :< factory car is plenty fast, I just like to tinker
Last edited by Zip Corvettes; May 6, 2020 at 08:40 AM.
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Chris, You have met me, you may have an idea how long I have been around this. I do not know John, I don't think I have every actually met him except in passing, but I know some of his friends and some of those companies who were lucky to have him part of. The fact that Hennessy made a statement is what I was getting at. If they had said nothing then everyone would think how awesome they are for getting this, the fact that they came in here I think is enough to show to validity to what I said just try and throw it off. The early ZR1 aftermarket panels that came out in the early 90's were because JH dropped off a early no vin ZR1 to a certain fiberglass company. There have been some, not many car builders that have their own operating system on a brand new car. This is the first time though that GM has acknowledged that they may do something, but I have no doubt that JH is the key to this and help in deciding who gets this capability. I have zero doubt there will be a GM calibrator writing these calibrations and not GM opening up a pipeline for anyone to modify. I mean HP tuners is not going to decide who is worthy of it and who is not, that is not their business model. Thank goodness this thread will not go anywhere so when it happens I can go back and reference it.
Last edited by Zip Corvettes; May 6, 2020 at 12:27 PM.
Team Owner
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From: Auburn Hills MI
Piggy backs have come a long way on BMW/Audi and their engine management is fairly complicated. However those are already boosted applications where the C8 is NA.
On the new B9 3.0 platform people are pushing 300hp above stock with mods with just a piggyback as the tuning device. 3 wires to plug in and your off.
Last edited by NoOne; May 6, 2020 at 07:41 PM.
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So like piggy backs?
Piggy backs have come a long way on BMW/Audi and their engine management is fairly complicated. However those are already boosted applications where the C8 is NA.
On the new B9 3.0 platform people are pushing 300hp above stock with mods with just a piggyback as the tuning device. 3 wires to plug in and your off.
Piggy backs have come a long way on BMW/Audi and their engine management is fairly complicated. However those are already boosted applications where the C8 is NA.
On the new B9 3.0 platform people are pushing 300hp above stock with mods with just a piggyback as the tuning device. 3 wires to plug in and your off.
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Lingenfelter has figured out how to support up to 14-1500hp with direct injection with upgraded high pressure pump and injectors. So, it's possible the supplementary injectors wouldn't be needed up to that power level at least.
Do we know the capacity of the low-pressure C8 fuel pumps, or if they're carryovers of C7 designs?
Do we know the capacity of the low-pressure C8 fuel pumps, or if they're carryovers of C7 designs?
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Lingenfelter has figured out how to support up to 14-1500hp with direct injection with upgraded high pressure pump and injectors. So, it's possible the supplementary injectors wouldn't be needed up to that power level at least.
Do we know the capacity of the low-pressure C8 fuel pumps, or if they're carryovers of C7 designs?
Do we know the capacity of the low-pressure C8 fuel pumps, or if they're carryovers of C7 designs?