Another Delay? Z06
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,468
Likes: 4,084
From: Colorado
First off "net GM $200 million" is absurd as the Z06 will actually cost GM more money to produce than the base C8. Additionally, I'm not surprised by the delay as I mentioned this before in another post. With demand where it is, they could easily delay the Z06 to 2023 or possibly 2024. How much money do you think it costs to design, test and produce an all new model? As long as GM continues to sell more than they can produce, delaying the next variant makes sense. They could milk this C8 platform for 10 years+ without the added cost of changing to a brand new C9 in 6-8 years.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,559
Likes: 4,501
From: North Dallas 40 TX
And what you guys fail to realize is the money has already been sunk into the base model car (which is a much higher volume seller than the Z06) and GM is grossly behind their targeted production numbers. It is only logical that everything else will slip. You gonna tell people the wait time to get a C8 is going to be 18-24 months because Z06 owners take priority? The Z06 exists because the base model Corvette sells at such a high volume to allow for it's existence.
Do you not understand this has already happened once in the C8 generation and it did not cause a huge calamity. That was when they introduced the convertible. The world did not end and there were no pitchforks and torches.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,468
Likes: 4,084
From: Colorado
And what you guys fail to realize is the money has already been sunk into the base model car (which is a much higher volume seller than the Z06) and GM is grossly behind their targeted production numbers. It is only logical that everything else will slip. You gonna tell people the wait time to get a C8 is going to be 18-24 months because Z06 owners take priority? The Z06 exists because the base model Corvette sells at such a high volume to allow for it's existence.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 5,363
Likes: 4,108
From: New England
A large change to CAFE rules and a large increase in the federal gas tax will devastate ICE vehicles, and these changes are coming. The auto makers have a very small window available to them to capitalize of this final iteration of ICE vehicles, and they are going to do everything they can to push newer, higher margin product out the door as quickly as possible. I am guessing you have never worked for a large manufacturing concern, and certainly not an auto manufacturer that is subject to excessive government regulation...Am I right? Not picking on you, but it is clear that you are in over your head on this subject.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 386
Likes: 212
Personally I have a Stingary on order. The longer it took to get my order in the easier it was becoming to just wait for Z06. If Z06 was announced next month I would drop my order and many others would also. The stingary market, hype would immediately feel the impact of the Z06 announcement. This ain’t C7 this is C8. Used Stingary’s would everywhere guaranteed. It’s too early for Z06!
Last edited by Stardompromo; Jan 26, 2021 at 11:52 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 13,180
Likes: 10,528
Speculation, rumor and click bait. The YouTuber has no more inside information than I do. And I have none.
Anyone who knows is under an NDA and isn't talking, and anyone who's talking doesn't know. GM takes it's NDAs seriously. Remember how a couple of people posting all sorts of information here just suddenly disappeared back in 2019?
Anyone who knows is under an NDA and isn't talking, and anyone who's talking doesn't know. GM takes it's NDAs seriously. Remember how a couple of people posting all sorts of information here just suddenly disappeared back in 2019?
Last edited by Red Mist Rulz; Jan 26, 2021 at 11:54 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 5,363
Likes: 4,108
From: New England
Guessing you also have no fortune 500 manufacturing or auto manufacturing experience. If you didn't go to business school, and you haven't worked in or around highly regulated manufacturers your entire career, you can't expect people that have to take your opinions seriously...And looking for logic in a process you don't understand is a fool's errand.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 5,363
Likes: 4,108
From: New England
Personally I have a Stingary on order. The longer it took to get my order in the easier it was becoming to just wait for Z06. If Z06 was announced next month I would drop my order and many others would also. The stingary market, hype would immediately feel the impact of the Z06 announcement. This ain’t C7 this is C8. Used Stingary’s would everywhere guaranteed. It’s too early for Z06!
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Race Director
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 13,180
Likes: 10,528
The reason is because one doesn’t canabalize the other. That’s why. It’s an addition to the base car not an upgrade replacement. If there was no price differential then you guys would be correct but since there’sa large price delta for the better car one rarely eats into the other. In fact the margins are better on z06 so gm wants to make both ASAP. Which is why they have never waited longer than necessary to release the z. Is why they won’t wait now unless there are supply line issues or other covid bullshit in the way delaying it. They aren’t intentionally delaying it cause base car so hot. These aren’t iPhones set to replace last years iPhone.
One of GM's goals with the C8 was to attract new buyers who never looked at Corvettes before. They've succeeded so far. If they slow production of the Stingray, and lot of those potential buyers may decide to look elsewhere. I'm not claiming any inside knowledge, nor making any predictions. Just pointing out that maximizing revenue isn't the only factor GM might consider.
Last edited by Red Mist Rulz; Jan 26, 2021 at 12:05 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,468
Likes: 4,084
From: Colorado
You're conflating a "gas" tax with a "Gas guzzler" tax...These are two different things. A federal "gas" tax is a tax that is applied to every gallon of fuel sold, so if the "gas" tax was raised by $5 per gallon, your cost at the pump would jump to $7 or $8 a gallon at the pump. Or if the government really wants to increase the sale of electric vehicles, they can increase that "gas" tax to $10 per gallon. How many folks are going to buy a new ICE Corvette if the cost of a gallon of fuel is $13?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,468
Likes: 4,084
From: Colorado
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 142
Likes: 108
I'm not trying to speak for him, but I think he means that if their only goal is to get the Z06 out there as quick as possible to make money, then they would announce it ASAP and start producing it ASAP. That's what others are saying as far as making money for GM. He's simply replying to other posters logic regarding this.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 11,048
Likes: 3,390
the zo6 will end up going for between $140k - $ 160K, and to maintain and keeps the stingray price competitive
the zo6 base price is $85k, GM will probably build the 3lz model first ($40k)
plus dealer fees tax mark-ups projected price $140k -$160k
Sign me up I would be honored to pay $150k for the zo6, mark my word, hell I paid over $100k for my c8 stingray and it's worth every dollar
the zo6 base price is $85k, GM will probably build the 3lz model first ($40k)
plus dealer fees tax mark-ups projected price $140k -$160k
Sign me up I would be honored to pay $150k for the zo6, mark my word, hell I paid over $100k for my c8 stingray and it's worth every dollar
Damn. And everyone went crazy when I said itll start at 95k lmao
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 5,363
Likes: 4,108
From: New England
But BGA's production capacity is limited. They can't add 15,000 Z06s to the production schedule without removing 15,000 Stingray's from the schedule. So yes, making Z06s does cannibalize Stingray deliveries.
One of GM's goals with the C8 was to attract new buyers who never looked at Corvettes before. They've succeeded so far. If they slow production of the Stingray, and lot of those potential buyers may decide to look elsewhere. I'm not claiming any inside knowledge, nor making any predictions. Just pointing out that maximizing revenue isn't the only factor GM might consider.
One of GM's goals with the C8 was to attract new buyers who never looked at Corvettes before. They've succeeded so far. If they slow production of the Stingray, and lot of those potential buyers may decide to look elsewhere. I'm not claiming any inside knowledge, nor making any predictions. Just pointing out that maximizing revenue isn't the only factor GM might consider.
What is being proposed here it that GM drastically cuts back on base C8 production and tell people who have been waiting 6, 9, 12+ months too bad, we want to build a more expensive model and you need to wait another 6+ months. Maybe longer. Not a good customer service experience for someone who has waited and at some point will become frustrated and take their money somewhere else. At this point the Z06 has not even been announced and nobody has submitted an order so it's easier to delay that group than to cancel or delay orders for people who already have deposits or orders submitted.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,468
Likes: 4,084
From: Colorado
I'm not trying to speak for him, but I think he means that if their only goal is to get the Z06 out there as quick as possible to make money, then they would announce it ASAP and start producing it ASAP. That's what others are saying as far as making money for GM. He's simply replying to other posters logic regarding this.
Last edited by SharkDiverZ06; Jan 26, 2021 at 12:31 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 5,363
Likes: 4,108
From: New England
You're conflating a "gas" tax with a "Gas guzzler" tax...These are two different things. A federal "gas" tax is a tax that is applied to every gallon of fuel sold, so if the "gas" tax was raised by $5 per gallon, your cost at the pump would jump to $7 or $8 a gallon at the pump. Or if the government really wants to increase the sale of electric vehicles, they can increase that "gas" tax to $10 per gallon. How many folks are going to buy a new ICE Corvette if the cost of a gallon of fuel is $13?
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 142
Likes: 108
I can't answer why he directed at you. And while no one is saying it will be a '21, there are many saying that they wouldn't wait at all because of profit, which if were the case they would just do it now.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 5,363
Likes: 4,108
From: New England
The previous posts (not all you) advocated that GM has already sunk the costs into the Z06 production and that they would release it sooner to make more money. The video that everyone is trashing (that I mostly agree with) says he thinks the Z06 will be released in 2022 (later in the year) but that most people would not get their Z06 allocation (if you are on the list now) until 2023.
The C7 was released as a 2014 model year car and the Z06 was released as a 2015 MY car. If I am tracking what people are saying the C8 Z06 should be no different. I doubt the Z06 will be a 2021 MY car and we don't know when GM will shift to 2022 MY Corvettes (it might get delayed like the 2021 did) so when are you predicting the Z06 will start shipping? If not this year then when? And how is that so far off what the guy in the video is saying then?
The C7 was released as a 2014 model year car and the Z06 was released as a 2015 MY car. If I am tracking what people are saying the C8 Z06 should be no different. I doubt the Z06 will be a 2021 MY car and we don't know when GM will shift to 2022 MY Corvettes (it might get delayed like the 2021 did) so when are you predicting the Z06 will start shipping? If not this year then when? And how is that so far off what the guy in the video is saying then?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,559
Likes: 4,501
From: North Dallas 40 TX
The problem is the list to buy a C8 Z06 is already very long. Let's say they announce the Z06 in May/June and it starts shipping in September. If you don't have your name on the list now you may not get one until late 2022, maybe 2023. They still are way behind on C8 base production with thousands and thousands of allocations to fill. If you cancel your C8 it doesn't mean GM won't build it for a C8 Z06. It means the dealer will sell it to someone else and then you get bumped to the back of the line for the Z06.
Why do you keep ignoring what actually occurred with the convertible? They have already done this exact same thing. No disaster occurred as a result. The Z06 will come out when they are ready to produce it. If they planned for it to come out in 2022 model year, and it is ready for production, then that is when it will come out. You can't just call up a manufacturer that already has a full production schedule and say I need you to ship me 300 turbo's a week starting next week, when he had you scheduled for 8 months from now. It just doesn't work that way in modern "just-in-time" manufacturing. Manufacturing lead time is a real thing.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,468
Likes: 4,084
From: Colorado
If the government raised gas prices to $10-13 a gallon it would collapse our economy. Stop being ridiculous. Could gas prices go up to $4-5 (National average) a gallon in the future? Very possible. Would that stop someone from buying a Z06? Highly doubtful. Most Corvette buyers are not driving 10-15K miles a year. I bought my C7 used and the previous owner had it 9 months and put under 1800 miles on it. These are toys for most people and garage queens. $4-5 gas would likely have no affect on Z06 sales.