I am looking at the rennlist GT3 orders thread...It looks like you may loose that bet...

 

i could be crossing streams without going back to refresh my memory, but unlike the 60s where the factory line installed a few goodies & threw a bunch more in the truck, i believe the recent iteration was sorta tied to the body-in-white program: where GM basically sold a gussied-up rolling chassis + body panels with a few powertrain options & no VIN stamps/plates - making them unregisterable for street use.

 

The Cup cars help sell the other sports cars Porsche makes.

The Corvette is there there to sell Tahoes and Caddies.

That's the difference. A track only variant, or heck, something like the GT3RS, isn't going to do that.

 

The sells number are higher then what's been stated, over 4000 911 cups have been built, and 673 vehicles from the 991.1 generation and 737 from the 2017-launched 991.2 generation. I'm sure the new 992 will be similar. I'm not saying it's going to take over Porsches SUVs as the profit center but it's still a few cars. It is also great for marketing.

 

The tooth fairy visited me last night and she said a track-only car is coming in a couple years. Much like you can buy a Porsche GT3 cup car. It will be a $500K car and race ready. Coincides with the C8R changing class.

 

Ben Sloss uses and has fun in his.


I personally see no reason for a new GM limited production track only car. They are a pain in the ***. If I want a racing car I can buy or build one. Street cars are stupid fast now on racetracks and have warranties. They are enough to satisfy nearly everyone.

 

Race cars and street cars are way different, regardless of capability. It's not just lap time potential. Race cars are lighter, set up differently, have far more brake and powertrain cooling, etc.

 

Thanks. I have both.

 

Then its particularly odd you'd say a street car is good enough to be a track only car these days.

 

Currently street cars make perfectly fine track cars for me with significantly less aggravation than non street legal track only cars. I just returned from this past weekend at Watkins Glen in my stock 2019 C7Z. It worked flawlessly for the application. It was faster than nearly every single racing car at the event. Got to hang out with my friends and play out on the track from time to time. Then my Wife jumped in it and drove it home. Couldn't have worked out any better. Because it doesn't have a cage the only thing I can't do with it is race W2W. Other than that I am not sure what else a racing car can do that it does not?

 

Worry about overheating, for one.
There's also the whole experience of having a car built for the track that is far more enjoyable. A car is a lot more enjoyable when it's 5-600lbs lighter. I highly doubt a 911 GT3 is anywhere near as much fun as a Cup car. And the GT3 is definitely more track oriented than a Z06. A z06 isn't much more than stiffer springs and more power- they reconfigure the car to the same degree as base 911 vs GT3.

Cup car has spherical bushings, lots of stuff removed, hydraulic power steering, different brakes, different suspension, etc. And again, the GT3 is a pretty darn good track car for a street car. Comparing a Cup car to a 911 Turbo S would probably be more accurate for track only Corvette to Z06.

It's a bit silly to say there's no point to making a Z06 "cup car" track only variant because the production car does everything just as well. A Z06 with track only suspension, 5-600lbs lighter, solid mounts, spherical bushings, tons of cooling, etc etc etc would be a big difference. It would be such a big difference that I doubt anyone would be cross shopping them. I've certainly never cross shopped a race car and a street car.

 

A non street legal track version, especially if it's far more expensive, simply isn't worth the aggravation to me. Right down to the fact that I can't drive it to the dealership and have them fix it when it breaks. Give me a fast street car with a warranty all day everyday if recreational track events are all I will be doing.

GT3 Cup cars are nice. I really like them. The new 992's are damn quick. I can not afford it or anything that goes along with having it so I don't even consider them.

I will probably trade my C7Z on the C8Z when I get it. I personally would not consider a track only C8. My C6Z racing car has become my forever car.

 

Sure, they're out of my price range too.It's why I have a BRZ for a race car. I leave it at the track and when it goes boom, I either have the shop at the track fix it, or I call the tow company and they tow it to Subaru. People who buy 911 cup cars do the same thing- just at 25x the operating cost because they make 50x more than me, lol.


I honestly don't like taking my street car to the track. Paint damage, wear and tear, tires swaps, fluids, etc. If it can't be driven for whatever reason, I have trouble getting home. Also, if I wreck it, I'm out a lot more money, which also why I don't drive them as hard and I find a dedicated race car more enjoyable.

With all that said, a street car isn't a substitute or even a competitor for a "cup car."

 

Depends on who is driving. I smashed every single one I saw this past weekend in a stock 1LZ C7Z with Faircloth Aero on Pirelli scrubs and I am not very fast. I only have one friend with one who is quicker and for that car I will need the C6Z. I am very much looking forward to that battle when it happens.

 

wants a full-up race car but would take it to a chevy dealer for fixing things that break while racing it

i'm confused

 

I would much rather have fast street car over a track only car if track day events are all I will be doing with it. I have one, a C7Z. I do take it to the dealer for service and will for warranty work. Funny enough my Service Writer even called me to find out how this past weekend went. I thought that was really cool of him. Bergey's Chevrolet in Colmar, PA. Fantastic Service department from my experience. No different than my experience with my ACR-E.

I don't race it. Track days are not racing. I enjoy it in a controlled environment and have fun with my friends.

 

People who have never owned/operated a real race car just don't get it. The work and money and time into making it work. They have to be trailered everywhere, finding a good shop is very hard if you don't have the time to DIY it all. There is really something to be said for how awesome these modern sports cars are and that you can track them every weekend with a warranty. Sure most Chevy dealers suck, but so do many race shops. I had a 2020 coupe, sold it for a 2021 HTC and will be getting a Z06 coupe to make into my long-term trackday car i.e. street legal but track oriented. Keep my warranty and let it eat.

 

I consider Porsche Cup cars race cars and from a manufacturer stand point, actually cup cars are simply stripped out cars pulled out of the assembly line initial or mid cycle and given very limited bits (like race tires) to complete the package. So most of the the light weight part is accessories stripping not installed in the assembly line. Once you achieve stripping you achieve more speed, cornering, brake power, and cooling etc etc.
The drive train componentry does not change; it simply performs better under less weight duress.

Coming to corvettes versus 911s. The rub is all in plant volume utilization and exceptions costs. When you have a line operating at 50% and trying to push it to 100% the manufacturing cost of "specials" is marginally lower than adding "specials" when you are already at 100%.
It's no mystery, Porsche like Corvette, starts with one model and then they monitor take rate. Approximate numbers...but by the time the generation is over Corvette is at 8 models @25K units/yr run rate and Porsche is at 28 models @25K units/yr.
And that is how you end up with a Z06 (good enough for track) at 85K and a GT3 (better than good enough for track) at 250K.
So to reduce it all in simpler terms...Porsche charges a "specialty tax" of 150K extra to the whole to make 100ish customers "happy".
Again, is it worth it? Granted, in serious racing (which is consolidating at the top...) 150K is peanuts but to me DIY guy that's a decent chunk for tires gas and DIY playing to take my car from good enough to better than good enough...

 

I mean, it's cool you won HPDE, but running fastest lap times doesn't mean it's most enjoyable car to drive. Compared to a proper race car, a street car is going to be an unsorted , disconnected, understeering mess. I'd much more enjoy driving a proper C5Z06 that was gutted with coilovers and set up well, had good aero, proper race seats/harness/steering wheel/cage/etc than a stock C7 Z06 that I'm sure would be much faster.

That's fine, and it sounds like a Cup car isn't for you. No one is trying to say that YOU need a Cup car. I'm saying that a Cup car and a street car are two completely different things, and comparing the two to say "well, there's no need for race cars because my street car is so fast" is missing the point- perhaps intentionally.

Street cars can be fun. I loved my C7GS. My buddy has a GT3RS. When we go to the track, we drive our track cars and we'll often do the last sessions in our street cars because it's fun.
With that said, they're very different animals. I never thought "I dont need a track car because I have a Grand Sport and it can run laps 10 seconds faster." If was looking to buy a 125k car and GM offered a C7 Z06 Cup car (would probably more like a Grand Sport cup Car), I'd be all over it.

Also, while a cup car is definitely gutted, there is a lot that changes- especially if you look at it vs a Turbo S. I mean, heck- it goes from AWD turbo to RWD NA. Suspension completely changes. Transmission changes. There actually isn't a lot that remains the same other than the physical body.

 

If all I was going to be doing are track day events I would have no need for a non street legal track day car. I don't think I am special. I bet that applies to most everyone. The current crop of fast, capable, street legal cars fill my requirements and come with far less aggravation than track use only cars.

I happen to enjoy driving Corvettes. Currently our C7Z is pleasant to drive on the street in varying conditions and works well enough for me on the track also. I am sure when I get a C8Z my experience will be comparable.

My friend with one of the finest examples of a Viper ACR-X (Factory caged racing car) anywhere posed a question when we were talking about being at Watkins Glen this past weekend. He is currently getting ready to do yet another build on the V10. He asked out loud "Who needs a race car?" His point being if all he is attending are track days and will never be racing it what does he need the ACR-X for?

I stand by my original comment that track use only cars are a pain in the *** and that the current crop of street cars have enough performance capability to satisfy most of us. If I was doing track days only I just wouldn't need anything else other than my street legal Corvette. For me the increased on track capability or "fun factor" of a track only version would not be worth the logistical challenges and extra responsibilities that would come with it.