The bottom line is that many of us ENJOY the mechanics and driving experience of a manual/standard transmission. This is NOT POSSIBLE with the automatic transmission regardless of the marketing terms used to define that automatic transmission. They are all in the automatic family...(automatic, DCT, PDK, CVT, AMT, automatic dual clutch transmission, automatic torque converter transmission, automated manual transmission)

The DCT is both an "automatic transmission" and an "automated manual transmission". But it is NOT a "manual transmission".

There is NOTHING wrong with the advancements of transmissions and the DCT. Seems to be a great transmission and technology. The pushback comes because there are some who ignorantly believe they are "manual transmissions".

 

I don't believe there is any resistance to DCT. It's a fantastic improvement to the traditional torque converter type automatic transmission.

There is resistance to:
1) Not having a manual transmission option. (clutch pedal, manual shifter)
2) The DCT being ignorantly referred to as a manual transmission. It is not. it is both an automatic transmission and a automated manual transmission >> making it an automatic transmission.

 

Even Porsche calls their PDK an automatic transmission, because it is. It is an automatic, just not a "traditional" torque convertor, planetary gear, hydraulically shifted transmission. The Tremec DCT is hydraulically shifted. It has a valve body. It has helical and maybe straight cut gears like a traditional manual but it is still an automatic. It can be manually shifted, mostly. It will hold a gear as long as you want, but it will not shift down if it will cause the engine to over-rev based on speed, so not really a manual, because a true manual will easily allow you to blow up your engine.

 

I dont think it is quite as simple as you make it out to be. The internals of a DCT are entirely based on a conventional manual transmission architecture. They use gears, synchros, shift forks etc. They are therefore a manual transmission architecture that is operated by hydraulic actuators. The internal components having nothing to do with a conventional automatic transmission architecture. It is a hydraulically actuated manual transmission architecture that can be operated manually or automatically.

If you simply replaced the hydraulic actuators in the actuator body with shift rods to actuate the clutches and the shift forks it would be entirely a manual transmission.

Having raced formula cars for some years, most good drivers learn to left foot brake and only use the clutch when leaving the pits or for starts. All shifting on track can be done with no clutch in a dog ring racing gearbox. This is the amazing thing about the DCT. It allows you to left foot brake on the street like in a real racing car and pop downshifts late into corner entry with minimal unbalancing. I find left foot braking, and manual shifting of the DCT to provide lots of driver engagement on the street.

 

That is why it can be called a automated manual transmission. (automated makes it an automatic by its very definition).

 

When people talk about manual transmissions, it’s completely obvious they are talking about a car with a clutch pedal the driver has to operate and a gear selector that the driver has to operate.

There is no need to split hairs and be like Oscar from The Office and seize a pointless opportunity to try to prove you are the smartest person in the room and being all “ackshuallly a DCT is a manual transmission because blablablah” when you know what people mean when they simply say “manual transmission.”

 

I'd hesitate to even call the auto DCT an automated manual; in my eyes it's a totally different mechanical architecture as compared to a conventional manual. Fully automatic, yes.

 

You are right. This should be the case. It is extremely obvious. But then you have several people actually post "DCT is a manual transmission"... :O I am guessing those people are very young and have no idea what a manual transmission is... let alone how enjoyable they are to drive in certain combinations of mechanical hardware. I would guess that the C8 or C8z when paired with a smooth shifting manual transmission would be a dream to drive.

 

I am 52, if that’s young to you, great. It’s technically a automated MANUAL transmission. And so far, I love it! And my previous C6 GS was a manual with a clutch pedal.

 

Historically, most automatic transmissions had planetary gears and torque converters, manual transmissions had pairs of gears for each speed. DCT's physically resemble manual transmissions more so than automatics. They do shift automatically. IMO they could be categorized as either automatic or manual. Some equates a clutch pedal with manual transmission, so there is that argument.

I remember, in the 70's VW's there was an optional semi-automatic gearbox which was just a manual transmission and the clutch was actuated by a solenoid. The shifter had an electric contact which was activated when you moved it. The wire coming from the contact broke frequently and had to be repaired. So, was that an automatic or a manual?

In my book you could call a DualClutchTransmission either a manual or an automatic. It's your call, I won't be offended.

Edit: Old school automatic planetary gear sets are stacked on a single axis shaft, manual stick shift gearboxes have 2 parallel shafts, DCT's have 3 parallel shafts.

 

No it isn’t.

“Further, dual-clutch transmissions do not require the driver to manually change from one gear to another using the shift lever. Instead, the gear selection process is automated so that a DCT can act as an automatic transmission.”

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shoppin...h-transmission

Owners don’t choose a manual transmission because they think it shifts faster. Everyone knows autos, of every name, shift faster. They choose manuals to feel more connected to the vehicle & involved in the driving experience.

 

When you dive into it, the DCT isn't simply a conventional manual operated by electrohydraulics; in a DCT such as the 9080 you couldn't replace the hydraulics with shift levers, and then add a foot-operated clutch pedal and have a manual tranny. It wouldn't work.

The first problem would be the normal mechanical gated shifter used in manual cars doesn't have enough mechanical logic to pre-select an even or odd gear while leaving the present gear engaged. You'd need 2 separate shift levers to do this, and you'd need to coordinate their positions depending on whether you were shifting up or down. You'd have to do this before you ever actually performed the shift.

Second big problem you'd have would be when you tried to hook up your clutch pedal and slave cylinder. You'd find the slave cylinder is 2-position "off-on" whereas the DCT clutches need a 3-position "on1-off-on2" or "on2-off-on1" function. Again, you'd need some electronic logic combined with a complex valve body to implement this. It gets better; The DCT clutches are hydraulic pressure actuated wet clutches and are held engaged by hydraulic pressure, so now you need a pretty good pressure pump to go with your new valve body. And, you'd completely lose the boosted launch, where the DCT launches using varied pressure and slip ratios from both clutches at the same time.

If you've ever rebuilt a T56 you know they're rather simple; the DCT transaxle is not; it has 6 shafts and 2 concentric input shafts; look at how the concentric shafts are supported by bearings. The DCT does have in common with the conventional manual the concept of meshing gears and synchros, but everything else is an order of magnitude more complex, and is why these transmissions were originally designed decades ago as automatics, with some type of electrohydraulic control wrapped around them.

 

Um, not really, every torque converter based auto that I am aware of is exceptionally poor at down shifting in spit of having paddles. Downshifting at the proper time slightly before a corner apex is one of the most important functions of a transmission on a track.