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In the two times I went to the Ron Fellows school for the C8 Stingray and the C8 Z06 no one crashed. I met the Chief Instructor of Ron Fellows, Rick Malone, about 20 years ago or so when he was an instructor at the AMG Driving Academy. I have been doing the AMG Driving Academy for many years (since about 2006) in the Pro and Pro Plus classes. Rick, at the Ron Fellows School, keeps a tight rein on what goes on so the chance of a mishap is alot less but there is always a risk when on track.
Forget about the nickel and dime issue. You just need to decide, if you wreck a car (which is always possible) how much do you want to pay in a deductible. Track driving at Ron Fellows is very controlled with lead/follow etc but stuff happens! I do understand the nickel and dime stuff for insurance but a two day course at AMG Driving Academy (now called AMG Experience) is about $6000 with insurance included. So an extra $400 on top of the $1000 for the two days at Ron Fellows is doable compared to $6k if you are concerned about spending $15k should you unfortunately wreck a car.
Originally Posted by StevoZ51
Thank you for your response Rob, I guess, rephrasing my question would be; in the twice that you attended did no other of anybody wrecking a car or have you ever heard of anybody wrecking a car there in the past?
I couldn’t get a straight answer out of the sales person, but that was probably because they didn’t know.
I guess if you can afford the deductible you don’t need the insurance. But on the other hand, if you can afford the deductible, you certainly can afford to spend $400. That would seem like cheap insurance.
I guess I just don’t like getting nickeled and dimed as they say.
As I said, when I attended the Skip, barber school at Laguna Seca, the insurance was included. At Ron Fellows, it was presented as an add-on/upsell.
When I inquired as to what was the school record of student crashes they couldn’t or wouldn’t tell me
Having never attended this school I’m not quite sure if there are obstacles alongside the track that might be hit if you lose control. I would imagine that they space the cars out pretty well so you’re not side-by-side at times like in an actual racing event for example.
You must’ve liked the school however because you went back a second time, yes?
Again, thank you for your response, you’ve given me a little perspective on this. I can see now that $400 is a pretty good deal actually.
And some peace of mind as well. As you can imagine, due to the fact, we’re talking about our multiple Corvettes, I could afford the 15 K. But $15,000 could certainly be spent better elsewhere.
So I will get the insurance and drive the car like I stole it!!!…(just kidding about that part🤣😂
1. Bragging about spending $30,000 on wheels/tires/brakes to run a year is a strange flex. That would pay for full AP conversion 2X over.
2. I'd love to see someone at the pointy end of the spear run Z07 CCBs and see the real rotor life. Based on GM's hard testing I don't think Carbons are the way to go. Most track weekends you get 3-4 hours of track time a weekend so in 8 weekends of hard running you'd use the following > That's $27,600 in front rotors at $2,300 each.
Funny how some people think flex--I was just providing my information. Guess I shouldn't provide real world information as some people think that is bragging! I guess just because you want to go contrary to my real world experience. But thanks for the GM information non the less!
Originally Posted by RapidC84B
1. Bragging about spending $30,000 on wheels/tires/brakes to run a year is a strange flex. That would pay for full AP conversion 2X over.
2. I'd love to see someone at the pointy end of the spear run Z07 CCBs and see the real rotor life. Based on GM's hard testing I don't think Carbons are the way to go. Most track weekends you get 3-4 hours of track time a weekend so in 8 weekends of hard running you'd use the following > That's $27,600 in front rotors at $2,300 each.
Well, I’m less knowledgeable about that because I’m not tracking my car yet, but I thought I’d comment and ask a question anyway.
Of course, letting the pads get down to the metal against the rotor will damage the rotor, but will the pad ware on the rotor differently depending at how much of the pad is left?
Additionally, you’re not turning the rotors when you replace the pads at 50% of their useful life?
Also, I’m curious, I would presume tracking your car results in greater ware and tear on your breaking system, and you’re not getting rotor warping from heat?
It is my first vehicle with ceramic brakes. Ceramic brakes then are less susceptible to warping due to heat?
Again thanks for the GM information on the Z06--have seen this before.
But would you follow exactly all this for you if you were tracking that much?
Let me ask you a question--If GM told you to change tires every 100 miles on track like it says below for the C8 Z51 Stingray Track Preparation Guide would you follow that precisely? That means in a two day track event, such as Chin Track Days (especially if I did Chin Happy Hour both track days), I would need 4 sets of tires or $8000 per weekend. I put on 13000 track miles in one year on a C8 Stingray. If I followed that pattern I would have needed 130 sets of Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires at $2000 a set or $260,000 per year in tires. I DON'T THINK SO! Not to say these recommendations are not good it is just the difference between academia and the real world--I did use Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires for all 13000 track miles.
Not sure why you would not want real world HPDE experience over what GM test engineers came up with in their presentation.
Originally Posted by RapidC84B
1. Bragging about spending $30,000 on wheels/tires/brakes to run a year is a strange flex. That would pay for full AP conversion 2X over.
2. I'd love to see someone at the pointy end of the spear run Z07 CCBs and see the real rotor life. Based on GM's hard testing I don't think Carbons are the way to go. Most track weekends you get 3-4 hours of track time a weekend so in 8 weekends of hard running you'd use the following > That's $27,600 in front rotors at $2,300 each.
On the CCBs it is important to change the pads early to not wear the surface of the CCB rotor. If the surface material of the CCB rotor is removed it will damage the rotor and risk cracking the rotor as well as burn through pads very quickly. Changing pads early helps the life of the rotor as the rotors are the expensive pieces to the equation.
Originally Posted by robob
I'm confused.
If you change the pads in time then are not the rotors are OK?
Again thanks for the GM information on the Z06--have seen this before.
But would you follow exactly all this for you if you were tracking that much?
Let me ask you a question--If GM told you to change tires every 100 miles on track like it says below for the C8 Z51 Stingray Track Preparation Guide would you follow that precisely? That means in a two day track event, such as Chin Track Days (especially if I did Chin Happy Hour both track days), I would need 4 sets of tires or $8000 per weekend. I put on 13000 track miles in one year on a C8 Stingray. If I followed that pattern I would have needed 130 sets of Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires at $2000 a set or $260,000 per year in tires. I DON'T THINK SO! Not to say these recommendations are not good it is just the difference between academia and the real world--I did use Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires for all 13000 track miles.
Not sure why you would not want real world HPDE experience over what GM test engineers came up with in their presentation.
13,000 track miles in a year should be about 70 to 80 days. Nice! I thought I was living the dream getting 50+ days in last year.
I have no clue how fast you are… lapping at 5/10ths is a lot less wear than someone using all the car. My guess is you’re not setting class records with your mileage/consumables.
NEVER do you want to take the pads down to far on CCBs. I did that with Irons on the C8 Stingray and tested the cool 2 stage brake warning system the C8 has that if you heat the brakes up too much it gives you a first warning to cool the brakes. If one does not head that warning it will take you to stage 2 and put you into limp mode. Thankfully I tested this on my C8 Stingray and not on the Z06. But the C8 Brake system is very very good from the standpoint of warning you if you are heating up the system. And when I took the pads once metal to metal (not recommended) on the C8 Stingray I tested the very cool 2 stage warning system.
This two stage warning system will help to ensure you do not ruin the CCB rotors by heating them up to much to oxidize the rotor and ruin the surface of the rotor. The C8 Z06 CCBs are very sophisticated especially with the electronic system that GM has established. Very Very cool stuff.
Originally Posted by StevoZ51
Well, I’m less knowledgeable about that because I’m not tracking my car yet, but I thought I’d comment and ask a question anyway.
Of course, letting the pads get down to the metal against the rotor will damage the rotor, but will the pad ware on the rotor differently depending at how much of the pad is left?
Additionally, you’re not turning the rotors when you replace the pads at 50% of their useful life?
Also, I’m curious, I would presume tracking your car results in greater ware and tear on your breaking system, and you’re not getting rotor warping from heat?
It is my first vehicle with ceramic brakes. Ceramic brakes then are less susceptible to warping due to heat?
2:17.3 at Cota in my C8 Z07 yes not the fastest but clearly very fast compared to most. I run advanced or intermediate at most HPDEs. Not sure why you want to take the opposite of everything I say. I am not a national champ in my SCCA class but not slow my friend!
Originally Posted by RapidC84B
I have no clue how fast you are… lapping at 5/10ths is a lot less wear than someone using all the car. My guess is you’re not setting class records with your mileage/consumables.
I travel all over the US to track. Mostly Road Atlanta, COTA, NCM Motorsports Park, Mid Ohio, Pittrace, a number of times to Laguna Seca (although West Coast as I tend to stay central to eastern US) but they recently went through a track paving project just like COTA is currently doing and a number of other less known tracks.
Originally Posted by ZRacerLE
13,000 track miles in a year should be about 70 to 80 days. Nice! I thought I was living the dream getting 50+ days in last year.
2:17.3 at Cota in my C8 Z07 yes not the fastest but clearly very fast compared to most. I run advanced or intermediate at most HPDEs. Not sure why you want to take the opposite of everything I say. I am not a national champ in my SCCA class but not slow my friend!
Hey man, you've got the COTA internet record for a C8Z to date!
Road Atlanta
Different times in different cars
1. c8 z07 1:30.1
2. last fall in Pro Class with AMG Driving Academy 2020 Mercedes Benz AMG GTR back straight limited to 145 mph (normally can get to 160 to 165mph if not limited on AMG GTR) 1:35.71 (one of the fastest in the class) fastest guy in class was 1:34 (again limited to 145mph on back straight)
3. c8 z51 Stingray 1:39.2 although more consistently at 139.9
Originally Posted by RapidC84B
What do you run at RA?
Last edited by Mark2021C8; 03-26-2024 at 11:18 PM.
On the CCBs it is important to change the pads early to not wear the surface of the CCB rotor. If the surface material of the CCB rotor is removed it will damage the rotor and risk cracking the rotor as well as burn through pads very quickly. Changing pads early helps the life of the rotor as the rotors are the expensive pieces to the equation.
Which is not what asked. I understand the change early:-)
They don't last longer.... they wear at the same rate when driven hard and cost 8X what steel costs. My OEM pads were $350 an axle from GMPD. OEM steel 2-piece rotors are about $500 a corner (similar to Girodiscs) but OEM carbons are $4K a corner list pice!
I was able to get two full VIR weekends out of my OEM fronts (rotors are totally fine) and rears have another hard weekend if not two. This is driving 8/10ths in the instructor group FWIW.
Carbon brakes are for flexing at Cars & Coffee.
No, they're not. They might not bite as hard but they have better consistency and handle heat far better. It seems like iron rotors have become a status symbol for people who want to seperate themselves from the people "flexing at cars and coffee". It's pretty funny actually.
The difference is rotational weight ALONE makes them worthwhile but what do I know? You're right though--heavy, rusty cast iron is the way to go for REAL racers. Only poseurs trying to show off at cars & coffee would even want carbon ceramic. I mean, ALL top level race cars still use state of the art cast iron so that should tell you something🙄
03-26-2024, 04:20 PM
