1BDRSK

If an SUV is plated with 'car' plates and not 'truck' plates, it's exempt. See the link in post #4 and look for this paragraph. "Truck" includes pickups and business type vans with truck licence plates. Farm plated trucks are subject to the same RGW rules.

TorontoC6

I agree with Greg. SUV with car plates is exempt.

At one of the Trillium events, there was an officer from one of the region police forces (not OPP). He presented all the info about trucks with commercial plates and the weight limits (and he discussed the exemptions for camper trailers). I asked him about SUV's and he said that they were exempt. No inspections, no commercial license, no logs.

As Greg says, the regulations are for CVOR's.

Dodosmike

Here is what the Weigh Scale guy gave me:
Personal use has no bearing on if the yellow sticker is needed or not. Its all a function of "weight".

Hand written point #1 and point #2(circled). Its the highest total they use.



My trucks gvwr 3266 + trailer gvwr 3181 = 6447kg (over 4500kg)
Gross weight of truck is 2383kg + trailer 544kg = 2927kg (under 4500kg)


This has more to do with the weight registration of the truck:


Post #4 above, what 1BDRSK mentioned in post #20:

Again, more to do with registering the gross weight than determining if the yellow sticker is needed.

dodosmike

1BDRSK

Did you ask him why you don't need a yellow sticker to rent a u-haul car hauler? Because based on what he's saying EVERY truck that pulls a utility trailer would need an inspection and that is simply not correct.

Dodosmike

Nope, not yet. Going to drop in on my home again tonight.

dodosmike

Dodosmike

Ef' it. I just called the weigh scale on the telephone. Asked them specifically about U-Hauls trailers. They said U-haul or Budget or whoever the rental company is doesn't care, they just rent the unit.

If the DRIVER gets stopped and checked, if they're over the 4500kg combined truck and trailer GVWR, then they'll get about an "45 minute long education session with a warning". Second and subsequent offenses get fined.

Bottom line (according to the guy I talked to) if the driver owns/rents a trailer and the combined T&T GVWR is over the 4500kg then its in fact illegal.

IF the truck by itself has a GVWR over 4500kg then it also need a yellow sticker annually.

Registered gross weight (RGW) a separate animal altogether.

I can provide the weigh scale phone number to anybody who would like to chat with them.

dodosmike

Dodosmike

Not EVERY combination of T&T, only if the COMBINED GVWR of the T&T are over 4500kg then they both would need an inspection.

Nobody in their right mind would do that for a "rental" though. H3LL, there are more "nonstickered" trucks hauling big trailers around my area than Bicks has pickles.

dodosmike

djbmw

I'm reviving an old thread because this receives many hits from Google. In all the pages/threads that I've read there is good, correct info, mixed in with incorrect information. For any new people coming in from a google search, here's the newest information at the time of me posting this (June 2018).

There are three main topics regarding towing in Ontario:


1. The type of drivers license the driver of the vehicle holds

2. The safety/inspection requirements of the tow vehicle and trailer (as well as CVOR)

3. The weight of the tow vehicle and trailer


1. Drivers License


For our discussions, we're mainly talking about hauling our toys with our trailers and so, most of us hold a G drivers license.

This license allows us, as a driver, to drive a vehicle, or combination of vehicle + trailer, up to 11,000 KG, so long as the trailer does not exceed 4,600 KG

There is an exemption to this for anyone towing an RV. If you're towing a fifth wheel RV you can exceed the 4600 KG trailer limit so long as you stay within the 11,000 KG combined limit. There are a few other requirements too, but that's the basics.


2. Safety Inspection/Requirements


Tow Vehicle:

In Ontario, most pickup trucks, vans, busses, etc. are registered as 'commercial' right out of the gate from the ministry. The definition, however, has changed since some of the previous posts in this thread.

Today, a commercial motor vehicle is defined as a truck or highway tractor with a gross weight OR registered gross weight of more than 4500 KG, OR a bus with a seating capacity for ten or more passengers. A full definition is under the Highway Traffic Act R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8 - Ontario Regulation 419/15 https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/R15419

So... look on your ownership, door sticker, etc - if your truck is 4500 KG or more, you're "Commercial" - continue reading below. If you're under 4500 KG, you are not commercial and not subject to the below requirements (most SUV's, cars, light trucks, etc.).


Commercial Vehicles

Great,... so you have a truck classified as Commercial... what does that mean!? It means that, if you wish to tow, your truck and ANY trailer that you pull behind it require an annual safety inspection/yellow sticker. You can also be stopped by the MTO/OPP for a road side inspection.

What about a CVOR Certificate?!?!

Although all pickups weighing 4500+ KG require an annual safety (as well as their trailers they pull), you might NOT need a CVOR IF you're pulling your own stuff for private use only. Here's the current exemption as of June 2018:

You're exempt from a CVOR if your vehicle:

• has a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of 6,000 kg (13,227 lb) or less
• are being used for personal purposes without compensation
• are fitted with either the original, unmodified box installed by the manufacturer, or an unmodified replacement box that duplicates the one installed by the manufacturer
• are not carrying or towing a trailer carrying commercial cargo or tools, or equipment of any type normally used for commercial purposes

3. WEIGHT!

Lastly, regardless of where you fall in all of the above, weight plays a factor in what you haul. There are two vehicles (the tow vehicle, and the trailer) that both have weight limits.


The tow vehicle lists it's weight limits on your door sticker AND/OR in your ownership - whichever is LOWER is the one the MTO will go with. This weight includes the weight of the fully loaded truck/suv, with passengers, fuel, etc - AS WELL AS TONGUE WEIGHT. You cannot exceed whatever gross limits the vehicle has been rated for - or else you'll be ticketed for overweight.

The same is true for the trailer.



Done - that's it, that's all.


So.... if you have a vehicle under 4500 KG,.. just dont overload it/your tongue/the trailer... and dont haul more than 4600 KG.

If your tow vehicle is over 4500KG ... you'll need a yearly safety for the truck AND trailer(s) that you tow... and POSSIBLY a CVOR if you haul stuff other than your own.



WAITTTTT!!!!

What about U-Haul trucks/trailers!?

In the MTO definition of a Commercial Vehicle, leased vehicles that are rented out for 30 days or less - and intended to transport personal items, are exempt from the Commercial Vehicle label (refer to the link at the top that I provided).

gdm78vette

I sent several emails to the MTO with questions on this issue, here is one of the responses I got back:

________________________________________ _______________

Please see the answers in red below to your questions posed. If you have any further questions or concerns, please feel free to contact Client Services at 1-800-387-7736.

Regards,


CVOR Client Services
Ministry of Transportation, Carrier Safety & Enforcement Branch
Phone: 416-246-7166 / 1-800-387-7736
Fax: 905-704-3033 | www.ontario.ca/cvor


Sent: April-24-18 10:44 AM
To: CVOR (MTO)
Subject: Questions on CVOR, Annual Inspection and Towing a 5th Wheel RV


I have a few questions on the need for a CVOR, Annual Inspection (yellow sticker) and towing a 5th wheel RV:



If a personal use pickup truck has a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of over 4500 kg but under 6000 would I need a CVOR? No a CVOR is not required in this circumstance – a Personal Exemption may be used.



Would I need an annual inspection (yellow sticker)? Yes an Annual Inspection would be required if the Registered Gross Weight of your truck is over 4500kg.



If I was to tow a 4800 kg 5th wheel RV with the truck what would this change? You would be required to increase the weight on your Registration at ServiceOntario to reflect the total weight of your truck, trailer and load. At this point it looks like a CVOR would be required, but you would request a Personal Exemption at ServiceOntario as you would be using the vehicle and RV solely for personal purposes.



Would the trailer need an annual inspection? RV’s and personal camper trailers are exempt from the requirements to obtain an Annual Inspection.



Would I need a CVOR when towing the trailer? No, you would be able to request a Personal Exemption at ServiceOntario when increasing your weight.



Would I need to stop at the truck inspection stations? As you are not required to obtain a CVOR, no, you would not be required to stop at inspection stations.



The truck and 5th wheel RV would be for personal use only and the trailer towed only several times a year for vacations.


________________________________________ _____________

My 3/4 ton truck has a RGW (the weight on my registration paper) of 4499kg because this was what the clerk at Service Ontario said I should do to avoid needing a CVOR and yellow sticker. I became concerned after reading a bunch of stuff on this and asked the questions I did of the MTO. I'm still a little confused by the comment on changing the weight on my registration when towing the trailer since I went to Service Ontario and asked them how this would be handled in terms of plate sticker cost on the higher weight for part of the year. I was told by them that I didn't have to do this and that they didn't want to see me in there multiple times a year changing my registered weight every time I wanted to tow my trailer!

In the other exchanges I had the person was saying that I would have to register my truck for the total combined weight of the truck and trailer and that would automatically make me commercial. Even the people who work in the MTO are confused, one of the emails said any vehicle over 3000kg could not be declared as personal use! So what is it? It would be nice if they could take the complexity out of all of this!

Dodosmike

I've upgraded my truck to a 3/4 ton. Gvwr of 10000lbs, needs a annual yellow sticker (safety inspection). Period.

RV trailers do NOT require an annual inspection.
ANY (non RV) trailer being pulled by a truck with a yellow sticker are also supposed be inspected annually, but many don't, but should legally.
Any tandem (non rv) are also supposed to be inspected.

RGW (registered gross weight) or the actual physical weight of the truck (wet) is on the green ownership papers. It should be increased if your towing, but to what limit, I don't recall, so I'll have to defer that to somebody else to comment. I lost all my links to get that information quickly, sorry.

Personal use 3/4 or 1ton trucks don't require a logbook, or trips into highway scales.

I have the phone number for my local highway 11 MTO scalehouse if anybody wants it.

djbmw

The email response you received from the MTO is spot on and mirrors my earlier post. Your tow vehicle, because it's over 4500kg (that's a heavy truck by the way!!!), will require an annual safety inspection. Since you're towing an RV, the RV will NOT require a safety inspection... but ANY other trailer you tow (even a friends utility trailer) will also require an annual safety since your truck is 'commercial' as per your weight.

Regarding the response about increasing your registered weight with the MTO... its to prevent you from getting an "Overweight" ticket.

Here's how it works (example below):

I have an SUV that has a dry curb weight of 4,000 lb
It's Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR; the most the vehicle can carry on it's own axles), is 5,300 lb
Let's assume there will be two adults, a full tank of fuel, and some other misc. things in the SUV while towing, tallying up to 500 lbs

This leaves me with 800 lbs of MAX tongue weight (Dry curb weight + people, fuel, etc ... subtracted from the GVWR)

You should always have 10-15% of the load you're hauling as positive tongue weight which means that, in this example, the heaviest trailer + load that I could haul without getting ticketed for "overweight" on the SUV would be a 8,000 lb trailer/load.

Now... if my trailer + load was heavier, and I knew my vehicle could haul a heavier load because of modifications I did, or the GVWR that the MTO has on my vehicle was incorrect, I am able to ask the MTO to change the GVWR that they have on file for me, like they suggested to you, so that you could have more tongue weight applied without getting an Overweight ticket :-)

gdm78vette

The difficult aspect of this is that if I understand the rules correctly the truck's RGW should be the combined weight of the truck trailer when towing the 5th wheel camper (due to the weight of the trailer in this case). Doing that then means a higher yearly plate registration fee and a requirement for a yellow sticker on the truck. Overall higher cost to tow a trailer maybe 3 or 4 weeks out of a year just to meet registration requirements (it doesn't change the capability of the truck or the trailer). And as has been pointed out having the yellow sticker on the truck then seems to limit which trailers can be pulled to only those with yellow stickers even though those same trailers could be pulled by any other vehicle that didn't have a yellow sticker or even the same truck when registered with an RGW of under 4500kg. The limitation on towing only yellow sticker trailers seems most ridiculous to me. That and the conflicting information I get from the MTO and Service Ontario on how to do things right.

djbmw

That WAS the case until December of 2015 - The old regulation spoke of the combined weight of truck + trailer/load which, if 4500kg or more, would require an annual safety. They had also described SUV's with rear seats removed as being classified as trucks and included in the Commercial title if combined weights were 4500kg+.

In December 2015, however, this regulation was removed and replaced with a classification on ANY tow vehicles which GVWR is 4500kg or more is classified as Commercial and required to conduct an annual safety. It no longer makes reference to combined weights of truck + trailer/load. To me this makes sense - it prevents the ridiculous convoluted ambiguity that the old regulation had. This way, a tow vehicle under 4500kg can haul different trailer/load configurations without jumping through hoops, so long as your tow vehicle and trailer are not "Overweight" as I've identified above.

I will call the MTO today and record my call (I'll likely call several times in hopes of speaking with more than one representative to see if the understandings they all have are unified).

djbmw

I just called (and recorded the call - I can upload it for anyone who wants to listen) the MTO.

I told her that I had a Car Hauler and will be towing a myriad of vehicles, from tractors to race cars, and ATV's. I then told her that I had two tow vehicle options - An SUV as well as a truck.

Her response was this (and again, I can upload the audio clip for reference if you'd like):

If you tow the trailer + load with your SUV, no annual safety inspections are required and the weight combination makes no difference so long as you're not overloading your SUV with too much tongue weight, or overloading the trailer beyond what the trailer has been rated for.

If I tow the same combination with a truck that has "Com" on the ownership, OR a vehicle that weighs 4500kg or more, I will need an annual safety on the truck and trailer (fifth wheel RV's being the exception).

Silly silly silly Ontario rules!

tfi racing

Sooo, basically you are at the whim and discretion of the LEO you may encounter on your travels.Tax and harass at the roadside,then kick it upstairs for those who can afford the time and expense to fight it later in court...

Dodosmike

I agree with your comments. A SUV is not a HD truck for trailer pulling purposes (and laws). If you have an older style 3/4 ton Ford Excursion or GM Suburban hauling a heavy car hauler or dump trailer, your golden, IF......IF you have the blue plates on it. My understanding is if your SUV has BLACK plates, your classed as a truck, and could be subject to yellow sticker requirements, depending on the GVWR numbers.

To clarify, ANY Rv is exempt from the yellow sticker requirement, not just a 5er. My regular bumper pull 30' is exempt.

To add:
On the left side of the green ownership there is a weight listed "Vehicle Weight", mine shows 3302KG (Ram 2500 diesel). "Registered Gross weight (RGW)" on the right side of ownership, mine is registered for 4200kg.

I need a sticker because my GVWR is right on 10,000lbs (4545kg). Ram make (or did for awhile) a "light" 3/4 ton with a GVWR of 9900lbs (4500kg right on) that will allow you to run without a sticker and no trailers. Any vehicle with a GVWR over 4500kg (4501+kg) require a sticker.

RGW is "truck plus contents of cab and box PLUS tongue weight of the trailer". (some people say it allows less 200lbs for a driver, but thats the "payload calculation", a separate issue altogether).

Oh yeah, the guys at the weigh scale by my house told me "not to bother to drive through the scale with anything less than a triple axle (non RV) trailer, its a waste of their time". Now they of course didn't give me anything in writing on that. I drive by there twice everyday going back and forth to work (no trailers) and never had an issue. The times I DO go by with a trailer is a single axle and have never been bothered (no yellow stickers on either one). Only tandem I have now is my camper, I sold my car hauler.

Dodosmike

IMO LEO's will not seek out overweight pickups, MTO will, which might be just as bad.

LEO's will pull you for a busted *** dangerous trailer, unsafe load, no lights etc, but I don't think they'll yank a truck over for a load that appears safe and in control. Now if you have a Ford Ranger, with a tractor on a triple axle float they might take notice and call the MTO. But if you run that situation, your a dumbass for hauling that load with that truck and deserve what you get, IMO of course.

Local to me there are "scrappys", guys running loads of steel to the scrapyard for $$$, those are the guys with busted up 1/2's and sketchy trailers that the MTO loves to prey on.

Ive also seen and driven through MTO trailer inspection stations on long weekends in middle to southern Ontario. Never had a trailer issue, but MTO did do a fuel dip to check to see if I was running clear diesel (I was and always do), as opposed to coloured fuel (taxed different) that tractors and construction equipment use. It was 10 minute stop, dipped, checked the lights and tie downs (4 points minimum), plate affixed, all checked out fine and away I went.

Now MTO is checking closer for the OEM exhaust system are in place for those driving diesels. Running "deleted" emissions components and "rolling coal" is a HUGE fine and they can remove your plates and your getting towed home.

gdm78vette

Based on what I'm reading (see response from MTO in my earlier email post) the need for a yellow sticker is based on the RGW being over 4500 kg not on the GVRW. That being said it also seems that if you are towing your RGW should be the combined weight of the truck and trailer if the weight of the trailer is over 4600 kg (assumption I'm making because the Drivers Handbook says any G license can tow a trailer up to 4600 kg). My registration has 3377 on the left side and 4499 on the right (so don't need the yellow sticker) which would allow me an 1122 kg payload. If I towed a small trailer that weighed under 4600 kg I think I'm OK but if I tow my 5th wheel which is 4800 kg then I should have my RGW changed to the combined weight of the truck, trailer and payload which would easily put me over the 4500 kg RGW and then require the yellow sticker. Regardless of what the RGW says or the presence of a yellow sticker my owners manual says my truck can tow a maximum trailer of 7076 kg with a kingpin weight of up to 1587 kg.

I'm sure there is a way the bureaucracy around licencing, inspecting and towing could be significantly reduced to make our lives a little less complex.

gdm78vette

Can you post a link to the December 2015 changes? Everything I find with Google still talks about if the trailer is over 2800 kg then you need the combined weight for your RGW.

Dodosmike

If your truck alone has a gvwr over 10000 then you need a yellow sticker. Nothing to do with the actual weight of the truck by itself.
RGW should be truck weight plus tongue weight of camper, or pin weight with a5er.