Compound for PC???.....
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,183
Likes: 85
From: Castle Rock CO
St. Jude Donor '15
Compound for PC???.....
Okay, I'm not really sure I understand why there isn't a compound that can work 2000/2500/3000 grit sanding out of paint using only the Porter Cable PC. Now, granted, with extra cut 3M compounds, I have come damn close on 3000 grit marks going away, but close just doesn't cut it on my black vehicles. Since we have moved away from Lacquer finishes(heat was a good thing with them, bad on modern finishes), why isn't there a higher concentration abrasives compound that can cut using a PC? I understand the concentration of the abrasive would have to increase, making this a very unfriendly compound for rotary buffers, but that is really the point. I would like to leave it in the cabinet more often and just use the PC.
Is this possible? Anyone with connections to the big compound makers?? Lay this one on them....
Todd
Is this possible? Anyone with connections to the big compound makers?? Lay this one on them....
Todd
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,596
Likes: 2
From: Atlanta GA
In my experience you are gonna need the rotary to get the "heavier" compounds to break down and finish out. A PC just can't do this especially on corvette clear.
Here is what I find will remove some pretty good defects and finish down "almost" LSP ready with a rotary.
High temp extreme cut aka EC mixed 50/50 with optimum polish (OP)
One a recent TR coupe, Jim the owner tried this combo with a PC and orange pad. He did a few passes w/ good pressure and did not get any results. The next day he stopped by and we used the EC/OP combo w/ a rotary and yellow pad. I was suprised how with ease this combo removed the defects and finsihed down so well.
Here is what I find will remove some pretty good defects and finish down "almost" LSP ready with a rotary.
High temp extreme cut aka EC mixed 50/50 with optimum polish (OP)
One a recent TR coupe, Jim the owner tried this combo with a PC and orange pad. He did a few passes w/ good pressure and did not get any results. The next day he stopped by and we used the EC/OP combo w/ a rotary and yellow pad. I was suprised how with ease this combo removed the defects and finsihed down so well.
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
It's about using the right tool for the right job. A PC just is not designed to be used as a paint correction device. This is where you need the rotary. A PC is fine for some light diminishing compounds such as some swirl removers etc. But it truly serves it's purpose as a polishing finishing tool. Applying and removing glazes/waxes and sealants is where it will perform the best.
You are expecting too much out of the PC.
When you are in the need of a heavier compound for heavier scratches/staining etc a rotary is the only thing that will do the job. The hevier compounds are designed to be used with the various wool cutting pads at a higher speed that only the rotary can supply.
The rotary has a bad reputation in my opinion as being user unfriendly.
I really did not find it that hard too work with from the beginning.
The biggest rule you need to keep in mind is to keep it moving. You need to use more arm speed with a rotary than with a PC. You can almost massage the finish with a PC and not worry about paint burn. This is not true with a rotary. A nice steady motion with the rotary is needed particularly when using heavier compunds and aggressive wool pads.
You are expecting too much out of the PC.
When you are in the need of a heavier compound for heavier scratches/staining etc a rotary is the only thing that will do the job. The hevier compounds are designed to be used with the various wool cutting pads at a higher speed that only the rotary can supply.
The rotary has a bad reputation in my opinion as being user unfriendly.
I really did not find it that hard too work with from the beginning.
The biggest rule you need to keep in mind is to keep it moving. You need to use more arm speed with a rotary than with a PC. You can almost massage the finish with a PC and not worry about paint burn. This is not true with a rotary. A nice steady motion with the rotary is needed particularly when using heavier compunds and aggressive wool pads.
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 873
Likes: 0
From: Kansas
I have a PC and use it for glazes and waxes, when I what do paint correction I grab the Cyclo. It is as safe to use as the PC but will correct paint seveal times faster than the PC and won't burn the paint. Think of two PC's with 4 inch spot pads with about 30% more power and putting one in each hand and that is what using a Cyclo is like. Dosn't have the learning curve of a rotary. The pads are cheaper and they have wool pads, bonnets and even brushes to clean carpet.
The Cyclo and the CRSpotless is two of the best purchases I ever made in the car detailing.
The Cyclo and the CRSpotless is two of the best purchases I ever made in the car detailing.
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,157
Likes: 37
From: North Carolina
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'11-'12
Originally Posted by gmblack3
In my experience you are gonna need the rotary to get the "heavier" compounds to break down and finish out. A PC just can't do this especially on corvette clear.
Here is what I find will remove some pretty good defects and finish down "almost" LSP ready with a rotary.
High temp extreme cut aka EC mixed 50/50 with optimum polish (OP)
One a recent TR coupe, Jim the owner tried this combo with a PC and orange pad. He did a few passes w/ good pressure and did not get any results. The next day he stopped by and we used the EC/OP combo w/ a rotary and yellow pad. I was suprised how with ease this combo removed the defects and finsihed down so well.
Here is what I find will remove some pretty good defects and finish down "almost" LSP ready with a rotary.
High temp extreme cut aka EC mixed 50/50 with optimum polish (OP)
One a recent TR coupe, Jim the owner tried this combo with a PC and orange pad. He did a few passes w/ good pressure and did not get any results. The next day he stopped by and we used the EC/OP combo w/ a rotary and yellow pad. I was suprised how with ease this combo removed the defects and finsihed down so well.
Hi Temp Extreme is very aggressive, works great in this combo, and is reasonably priced.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,744
Likes: 2
From: The King of Bling
St. Jude Donor '10
I think this can be done with some of the softer clear coats but not on Corvette's hard clear coat. The vette cc needs the speed and heat of the rotary to be able to restore a shine.
I did do a real small spot one time on my vette before I got my rotary but it took me a real real loooooooooooooooooong time to do one tiny spot. I had to start with a real aggressive compound like 3m 39002 and then work my way down to a finer one. I cranked the ROB up to 6 and just kept working it. It would have taken me days to do a panel but I got it done. And this was with 3000 scratches.
You really are better off just using the proper tools for the job which is a rotary. You can always follow the rotary up with the ROB if you are not real proficient with the rotary and buffer swirls/holograms are a concern.
I did do a real small spot one time on my vette before I got my rotary but it took me a real real loooooooooooooooooong time to do one tiny spot. I had to start with a real aggressive compound like 3m 39002 and then work my way down to a finer one. I cranked the ROB up to 6 and just kept working it. It would have taken me days to do a panel but I got it done. And this was with 3000 scratches.
You really are better off just using the proper tools for the job which is a rotary. You can always follow the rotary up with the ROB if you are not real proficient with the rotary and buffer swirls/holograms are a concern.
Pro
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 556
Likes: 1
From: Atlanta GA
Originally Posted by gmblack3
In my experience you are gonna need the rotary to get the "heavier" compounds to break down and finish out. A PC just can't do this especially on corvette clear.
Here is what I find will remove some pretty good defects and finish down "almost" LSP ready with a rotary.
High temp extreme cut aka EC mixed 50/50 with optimum polish (OP)
One a recent TR coupe, Jim the owner tried this combo with a PC and orange pad. He did a few passes w/ good pressure and did not get any results. The next day he stopped by and we used the EC/OP combo w/ a rotary and yellow pad. I was suprised how with ease this combo removed the defects and finsihed down so well.
Here is what I find will remove some pretty good defects and finish down "almost" LSP ready with a rotary.
High temp extreme cut aka EC mixed 50/50 with optimum polish (OP)
One a recent TR coupe, Jim the owner tried this combo with a PC and orange pad. He did a few passes w/ good pressure and did not get any results. The next day he stopped by and we used the EC/OP combo w/ a rotary and yellow pad. I was suprised how with ease this combo removed the defects and finsihed down so well.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,744
Likes: 2
From: The King of Bling
St. Jude Donor '10
Originally Posted by TonyC6
Who makes Optimum Polish? Is that a Hi-Temp product?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,195
Likes: 2
From: ATL
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10
Originally Posted by gmblack3
In my experience you are gonna need the rotary to get the "heavier" compounds to break down and finish out. A PC just can't do this especially on corvette clear.
Here is what I find will remove some pretty good defects and finish down "almost" LSP ready with a rotary.
High temp extreme cut aka EC mixed 50/50 with optimum polish (OP)
One a recent TR coupe, Jim the owner tried this combo with a PC and orange pad. He did a few passes w/ good pressure and did not get any results. The next day he stopped by and we used the EC/OP combo w/ a rotary and yellow pad. I was suprised how with ease this combo removed the defects and finsihed down so well.
Here is what I find will remove some pretty good defects and finish down "almost" LSP ready with a rotary.
High temp extreme cut aka EC mixed 50/50 with optimum polish (OP)
One a recent TR coupe, Jim the owner tried this combo with a PC and orange pad. He did a few passes w/ good pressure and did not get any results. The next day he stopped by and we used the EC/OP combo w/ a rotary and yellow pad. I was suprised how with ease this combo removed the defects and finsihed down so well.
I tried the EC/OP combo with a Propel orange pad on the PC. It made the area shinny, but did not touch any of the scratches on the portion aft of the hatchback on my coupe. The rotary reduced the defects nicely and easily.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,183
Likes: 85
From: Castle Rock CO
St. Jude Donor '15
See, I think we are completely at the whim of the market. Rotary buffers have had their place for a long time and still will in the custom paint department. However, for us stock paint guys, there is no reason a compound couldn't be 'brewed' up that would allow a PC to compound 2000 grit sanding marks out of the finish. According to several of the local paint experts I talk too, the new VOC free paints the car makes use are not keen to heat. As some of you have mentioned, heat can actually drive scratches down into the paint we are working on with these new finishes. Pure abrasive polishing of the surface without the heat associated with a rotary would be the best situation.
I can see the new ceramic polishes really starting to show what I mean. If you take Menzerna 106FF(more than double the percentage of abrasives in 106FF than Menzerna PFII, for example) and put to it with a PC, you can do a lot more work on typical clears than you can with the "old" polishes. Now, if we could get some heavy abrasive compound from Menzerna for ceramic clears, I think a PC could enter the world of compounding easily.
Todd
I can see the new ceramic polishes really starting to show what I mean. If you take Menzerna 106FF(more than double the percentage of abrasives in 106FF than Menzerna PFII, for example) and put to it with a PC, you can do a lot more work on typical clears than you can with the "old" polishes. Now, if we could get some heavy abrasive compound from Menzerna for ceramic clears, I think a PC could enter the world of compounding easily.
Todd
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,034
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From: Lewes DE
semi-relevant comment:
like agentf1 was saying - very much dependent on your paint.
PC does well on Mercedes.
PC with WHITE pad (!) and 3M 39002/39009 had no trouble at all removing 2000 and 3000 grit sanding marks on my motorcycle (Kawasaki Vulcan 1999 Classic).
Also, COMPLETELY wore through the paint down to bare metal, on my gas tank with the PC.
Just wanted to mention this -- so that if you guys are working on cars or bikes that are NOT Corvettes, do not assume you have to go to the rotary first. Amazing how soft the clearcoat and paint are on my motorcycle.
like agentf1 was saying - very much dependent on your paint.
PC does well on Mercedes.
PC with WHITE pad (!) and 3M 39002/39009 had no trouble at all removing 2000 and 3000 grit sanding marks on my motorcycle (Kawasaki Vulcan 1999 Classic).
Also, COMPLETELY wore through the paint down to bare metal, on my gas tank with the PC.
Just wanted to mention this -- so that if you guys are working on cars or bikes that are NOT Corvettes, do not assume you have to go to the rotary first. Amazing how soft the clearcoat and paint are on my motorcycle.