Set my mind at ease
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 7,727
Likes: 7
From: Twilight zone
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
Set my mind at ease
OK, spent about 10 hrs. yesterday on the vette.
Wash, dry,moved it in the garage under lights because too hot outside.Very quick clay bar(not a lot of time spent on this),broke out the pc and the "orange cutting pad /w7006" with some 3m 39002.
Followed that up with the yellow/w8006 pad and some 3m 39003.
I followed with a quick Adam's scratch/swirl remover by hand .
Then finished with Adam's buttery wax by hand.
It all looked GREAT last evening under the lights!
Today, I took it out in the sun,and I can see distinct areas in direct sunlight that are "dull or cloudy" looking ....
BTW, the car is black.
So,I don't have any more time to work on it before the big A+A BBQ on the west coast this weekend,but it's bugging me real bad right now...
I can't believe I screwed this up that bad!Please tell me I could not have destroyed the clear coat!I should be able to bring it back( I am pretty positive I can),but I am NOT sure where I went astray...
Any thoughts?
Wash, dry,moved it in the garage under lights because too hot outside.Very quick clay bar(not a lot of time spent on this),broke out the pc and the "orange cutting pad /w7006" with some 3m 39002.
Followed that up with the yellow/w8006 pad and some 3m 39003.
I followed with a quick Adam's scratch/swirl remover by hand .
Then finished with Adam's buttery wax by hand.
It all looked GREAT last evening under the lights!
Today, I took it out in the sun,and I can see distinct areas in direct sunlight that are "dull or cloudy" looking ....
BTW, the car is black.
So,I don't have any more time to work on it before the big A+A BBQ on the west coast this weekend,but it's bugging me real bad right now...
I can't believe I screwed this up that bad!Please tell me I could not have destroyed the clear coat!I should be able to bring it back( I am pretty positive I can),but I am NOT sure where I went astray...
Any thoughts?
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 7,727
Likes: 7
From: Twilight zone
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
Didn't help
I know one thing that I just read,I was moving way too fast with my pc
Advanced
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 54
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Sounds like a finishing polish and a white and then gray pad is needed. Black is the hardest paint to finish, but it is the best looking when done. Don't worry about the wax, just get a good finishing polish and hit it with the aformentioned pads. Polishing by hand NEVER works, you didn't finish it off right. No worries you are still ok, just another project for another day.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 7,727
Likes: 7
From: Twilight zone
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
Sounds like a finishing polish and a white and then gray pad is needed. Black is the hardest paint to finish, but it is the best looking when done. Don't worry about the wax, just get a good finishing polish and hit it with the aformentioned pads. Polishing by hand NEVER works, you didn't finish it off right. No worries you are still ok, just another project for another day.
I was thinking that WAS the finishing polish...
Advanced
Joined: Jun 2007
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To be honest I am not familar with those 3m products, the only ones I've used was for deep swirl removal. In my circles 3m isn't very popular in finishing polishes, but they do excel in major paint correction. I would suggest Menzerna fpII or Zaino ZAIO & ZPC for a great finish. There are other too, but these are what I use. You said you use a "yellow" and an "orange" pad, these usually are both cutting pads. Black cars need finishing pads for sure, usually white, blue, or gray should be your last step with an AIO type product.
Last edited by Skin Head Hatin; Jun 28, 2007 at 09:01 PM.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 7,727
Likes: 7
From: Twilight zone
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
Yeah Skin,
The pads I used I purchased from a automotive paint supply because they recommended them.They are the 6.5" pads by mequires(w7006 is definately a cutting pad,orange,w8006 is spongy type called a polishing pad /yellow,The other pad I have that I did not use this time was the w9006 tan finishing pad .
I don't recall seeing any white/gray or blue,but maybe I wasn't looking close enough...
Maybe I skipped a step not using that last pad....
I guess I need more practice
The pads I used I purchased from a automotive paint supply because they recommended them.They are the 6.5" pads by mequires(w7006 is definately a cutting pad,orange,w8006 is spongy type called a polishing pad /yellow,The other pad I have that I did not use this time was the w9006 tan finishing pad .
I don't recall seeing any white/gray or blue,but maybe I wasn't looking close enough...
Maybe I skipped a step not using that last pad....
I guess I need more practice
Last edited by flynbya2; Jun 28, 2007 at 09:11 PM.
Advanced
Joined: Jun 2007
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The softest pad (whatever color that is) needs to be used last, ESPECIALLY on black. I give you props for doing it yourself. Would like to see some pics when your done.
Last edited by Skin Head Hatin; Jun 28, 2007 at 09:12 PM.
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Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 7,727
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From: Twilight zone
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
What is more important,persay,the proper pad or the proper polish...
I know it's both,but what I am getting at is,if I were to use the same polish I have( finesse it II,which is 3m 39003)with the finest pad(the one I did not use this time)would that theoretically make much difference in the final outcome?
Last edited by flynbya2; Jun 28, 2007 at 09:35 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 96,209
Likes: 75
From: Houston Texas
St. Jude Donor '09
No way your going thru C5 clear with a PC........The stuff is way too hard for that. As far as you correction question, pad or polish.....?
They both work hand in hand and are BOTH important. The softest pad is for finishing, to be used with the mildest polish.....For heavier work, a cutting pad with a compound polish corrects paint swirles much faster. Companies use different colors for their pad grades. Find out which color is for what purpose and you're on your way.....
If I were you I'd go over the car one more time with a PC. I'd use menzerna IP with a LC orange pad.....(because C5 clear is that hard...)
Then, follow up with a wax or sealant and your done.......
Good luck.....
Last edited by Dave1; Jun 28, 2007 at 10:17 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,308
Likes: 104
From: Orange County California
Don't sweat the clear coat issue.....
No way your going thru C5 clear with a PC........The stuff is way too hard for that. As far as you correction question, pad or polish.....?
They both work hand in hand and are BOTH important. The softest pad is for finishing, to be used with the mildest polish.....For heavier work, a cutting pad with a compound polish corrects paint swirles much faster. Companies use different colors for their pad grades. Find out which color is for what purpose and you're on your way.....
If I were you I'd go over the car one more time with a PC. I'd use menzerna IP with a LC orange pad.....(because C5 clear is that hard...)
Then, follow up with a wax or sealant and your done.......
Good luck.....
No way your going thru C5 clear with a PC........The stuff is way too hard for that. As far as you correction question, pad or polish.....?
They both work hand in hand and are BOTH important. The softest pad is for finishing, to be used with the mildest polish.....For heavier work, a cutting pad with a compound polish corrects paint swirles much faster. Companies use different colors for their pad grades. Find out which color is for what purpose and you're on your way.....
If I were you I'd go over the car one more time with a PC. I'd use menzerna IP with a LC orange pad.....(because C5 clear is that hard...)
Then, follow up with a wax or sealant and your done.......
Good luck.....
I wish you luck. You may not have all the kinks out by this weekend, but at least you'll eventually be able to fix it! Kinda nice not worrying about screwing things up with a PC!
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 7,727
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From: Twilight zone
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
I don't claim to have any experience with the PC, because, frankly, I don't have any. But when I first read your Original Post, I thought "yellow pad, last???" From what I've read, the yellow pad isn't often used, especially in newer cars or that don't have serious issues. Unless your yellow pad is like LC's white pad? The reason I put Dave's quote up is that it seems the experts use a finer polish and a softer pad after the MIP and orange pad. Like the finishing polish or ZPC with a white or grey pad.
I wish you luck. You may not have all the kinks out by this weekend, but at least you'll eventually be able to fix it! Kinda nice not worrying about screwing things up with a PC!
I wish you luck. You may not have all the kinks out by this weekend, but at least you'll eventually be able to fix it! Kinda nice not worrying about screwing things up with a PC!
First one I don't even have,6006 pad( must be really heavy!)
Then the orange"cutting" pad...70006
then yellow *polishing" pad...8006
next the tan "finishing" pad...9006
I am a little surprised no one seems to use these mequires pads!
I have nothing to gauge them with,but that last pad seems awfully soft to me...
ANd yes, it IS nice knowing I can't screw this up to bad!!!
I'd be having a heart attack had I used a real polisher and got these results.........
Last edited by flynbya2; Jun 28, 2007 at 10:48 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 96,209
Likes: 75
From: Houston Texas
St. Jude Donor '09
Concerning a C5 or C6 though, IP with a LC orange pad finishes off wonderfully. A high gloss ready for a sealant or wax.
Another go around with ZPC and and a LC white pad would be nice but I don't know how many products flynbya2 has or is willing to buy for his black C5. The menzerna twins IP and FPII are excellent choices for his particular vehicle though. If his car had some serious swirls and marring, a PC wouldn't have done much of anything. Rotaries with wool pads are better suited for the heavy stuff......
For C5 black.......After a paint correction polish, Zaino Z5p x2 and ZCS followed by Z8.
Then your done...........
Wasn't that easy?......
Good luck.....
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 4,559
Likes: 28
From: Amarillo TX
My guess is it came from using the Swirl and Haze remover by hand and not fully working the product. I'm not real sure why you chose to use it after the 3M anyway.
I would go back over the vehicle with the 39003 and yellow Meguiar's pad. That should rememdy most of your problem.
I would go back over the vehicle with the 39003 and yellow Meguiar's pad. That should rememdy most of your problem.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,034
Likes: 11
From: Lewes DE
Note that this 7006 pad is the one that Mike Phillips (famous Meguiar's guru) never uses on the paint. He uses it only to hold a cotton or microfiber bonnet for other projects. I would stay away from that one. I think you probably caused some marring with it - just like the marring that can occur with the LC yellow pads.
You have some good ideas mentioned above.
But with my theory, I'd vote for :
tape off a 2'X 2' section of the marred area, so you can compare your progress with a part of the marred section that is not done, as you go. Then use the 8006 pad with Menzerna INtensive polish (or 3M 39002). YOu'll see that after each pass, there will only be a small improvement, but a REAL improvement. Expect to do 3 to 4 passes before the finish is smooth again.
move the buffer at 1 " per second. Keep the PC speed at 6.
When done with that, then finish off with your 9006 pad, and pc at 5, and use Menzerna Final Polish II, (or 3M 39009), again moving very slowly. You'll be able to buff that back up to perfect gloss again.
Former Vendor
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,943
Likes: 2
From: Orlando/Oviedo FL
Did you use the Meguiars' 7006 purple cutting pad or the Lake Country Orange pad.
The 7006 pad is a VERY aggressive cutting pad (much more so then a LC yellow pad even) and should not be used with the Porter Cable. Meguiars' doesn't recommend using the cutting pad by Porter Cable at all, but on a paint with the the hardness of the Corvette's and being black, what happens is that the osillating action of the rough surface installs micromarring into the paint.
Now, because of the hardness of the paint, you need something moderately aggressive to remove the haze. The portercable doesn't have the power to do this on such a hard clear coat. If you have a rotary, you might want to try the Meg's 8006 pad with a moderate polish. If you don't have a rotary, you are going to need to have a step inbetween the Meg's 7006 pad and the Meg's 8006 pad (the LC Orange pad fills this gap).
I have finished plenty of Corvette's with the Meg's 8006 pad and never had a problem, so I don't think finishing down with a softer pad is going to help. What happened is you went from step 5 (super, almost too aggressive) to step 3 while skipping step 4. Going to step 1 isn't going to help, but going back and doing step 4 will. Then step 3, then step 2, ect....
The 7006 pad is a VERY aggressive cutting pad (much more so then a LC yellow pad even) and should not be used with the Porter Cable. Meguiars' doesn't recommend using the cutting pad by Porter Cable at all, but on a paint with the the hardness of the Corvette's and being black, what happens is that the osillating action of the rough surface installs micromarring into the paint.
Now, because of the hardness of the paint, you need something moderately aggressive to remove the haze. The portercable doesn't have the power to do this on such a hard clear coat. If you have a rotary, you might want to try the Meg's 8006 pad with a moderate polish. If you don't have a rotary, you are going to need to have a step inbetween the Meg's 7006 pad and the Meg's 8006 pad (the LC Orange pad fills this gap).
I have finished plenty of Corvette's with the Meg's 8006 pad and never had a problem, so I don't think finishing down with a softer pad is going to help. What happened is you went from step 5 (super, almost too aggressive) to step 3 while skipping step 4. Going to step 1 isn't going to help, but going back and doing step 4 will. Then step 3, then step 2, ect....
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 7,727
Likes: 7
From: Twilight zone
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
I have some concerns about your use of the Meguiar's 7006. I never use this , as I feel it is farrrrr too aggressive, and I can get all my scratch and swirl removal done using a gentler pad, the 8006.
Note that this 7006 pad is the one that Mike Phillips (famous Meguiar's guru) never uses on the paint. He uses it only to hold a cotton or microfiber bonnet for other projects. I would stay away from that one. I think you probably caused some marring with it - just like the marring that can occur with the LC yellow pads.
You have some good ideas mentioned above.
But with my theory, I'd vote for :
tape off a 2'X 2' section of the marred area, so you can compare your progress with a part of the marred section that is not done, as you go. Then use the 8006 pad with Menzerna INtensive polish (or 3M 39002). YOu'll see that after each pass, there will only be a small improvement, but a REAL improvement. Expect to do 3 to 4 passes before the finish is smooth again.
move the buffer at 1 " per second. Keep the PC speed at 6.
When done with that, then finish off with your 9006 pad, and pc at 5, and use Menzerna Final Polish II, (or 3M 39009), again moving very slowly. You'll be able to buff that back up to perfect gloss again.
Note that this 7006 pad is the one that Mike Phillips (famous Meguiar's guru) never uses on the paint. He uses it only to hold a cotton or microfiber bonnet for other projects. I would stay away from that one. I think you probably caused some marring with it - just like the marring that can occur with the LC yellow pads.
You have some good ideas mentioned above.
But with my theory, I'd vote for :
tape off a 2'X 2' section of the marred area, so you can compare your progress with a part of the marred section that is not done, as you go. Then use the 8006 pad with Menzerna INtensive polish (or 3M 39002). YOu'll see that after each pass, there will only be a small improvement, but a REAL improvement. Expect to do 3 to 4 passes before the finish is smooth again.
move the buffer at 1 " per second. Keep the PC speed at 6.
When done with that, then finish off with your 9006 pad, and pc at 5, and use Menzerna Final Polish II, (or 3M 39009), again moving very slowly. You'll be able to buff that back up to perfect gloss again.
Thanks, I will probably go about it in this manner.
The funny thing is( being the diy'er Iam),I prepped and painted a wing for my car in my garage.It had all kinds of crap in it,so I had to color sand it,then used these same pads and polishes,and had excellent results with it.Many had told me I would not be able to bring it back w/o a rotary.
I was pleased at the time to have been successful with the pc.
I think I just used the same procedure when I did the whole car,thinking I would get the same results
Back to the drawing board
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 7,727
Likes: 7
From: Twilight zone
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
Did you use the Meguiars' 7006 purple cutting pad or the Lake Country Orange pad.
(the LC Orange pad fills this gap).
I have finished plenty of Corvette's with the Meg's 8006 pad and never had a problem, so I don't think finishing down with a softer pad is going to help. What happened is you went from step 5 (super, almost too aggressive) to step 3 while skipping step 4. Going to step 1 isn't going to help, but going back and doing step 4 will. Then step 3, then step 2, ect....
(the LC Orange pad fills this gap).
I have finished plenty of Corvette's with the Meg's 8006 pad and never had a problem, so I don't think finishing down with a softer pad is going to help. What happened is you went from step 5 (super, almost too aggressive) to step 3 while skipping step 4. Going to step 1 isn't going to help, but going back and doing step 4 will. Then step 3, then step 2, ect....
Where does one get this other pad you speak of from?
I was with you, until this last paragraph,I am totally confused on all these steps you speak of.I understand the theory you are prescribing to,I just get lost without knowing what each step you are referring to is
Thanks guys!
Former Vendor
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,943
Likes: 2
From: Orlando/Oviedo FL
OK, well at least I know I can repair it......
Thanks, I will probably go about it in this manner.
The funny thing is( being the diy'er Iam),I prepped and painted a wing for my car in my garage.It had all kinds of crap in it,so I had to color sand it,then used these same pads and polishes,and had excellent results with it.Many had told me I would not be able to bring it back w/o a rotary.
I was pleased at the time to have been successful with the pc.
I think I just used the same procedure when I did the whole car,thinking I would get the same results
Back to the drawing board
Thanks, I will probably go about it in this manner.
The funny thing is( being the diy'er Iam),I prepped and painted a wing for my car in my garage.It had all kinds of crap in it,so I had to color sand it,then used these same pads and polishes,and had excellent results with it.Many had told me I would not be able to bring it back w/o a rotary.
I was pleased at the time to have been successful with the pc.
I think I just used the same procedure when I did the whole car,thinking I would get the same results
Back to the drawing board
I would use the Orange Country orange pad with a producted called Menzerna 3.01 SIP, sold as P83 on autogeek.
This would probably remove most of the hazing in one to two passes. Then you can use something like Menzerna FPII (or if you want to spend the money, 106ff) and a white pad to take you to perfection.