Help with Porter Cable technique
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Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Williamstown NJ
Help with Porter Cable technique
I am currently using the PC for the first time with Menzerno IP, and the Lake County Orange pad. It seems ot be doing great, but of course there some spots that require more attention. I know that a buffer is better for big things, but since I am an amateur, I would like to get what I can out of the PC. For those particular spots (maybe a 1 inch long light scratch), if I want to zone in on that, how can I really work it with the PC? Do hold it there flat over the scratch while applaying a lot of pressure without moving? Do I Move it while holding it flat with extra pressure? Do I use lighter pressure so it spins more ot generate more heat? Or even do I tilt the PC, and use the corner of the pad, and keep going over the same spot? Just looking for some advice from someone who is experienced. I know it will take some time to get it to look decent, but I do not want to waste any time along the process. Thanks in advance!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,744
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From: The King of Bling
St. Jude Donor '10
Be careful with the orange pads as they leave micro marring. It is perfect for a small isolated are like you are doing to remove a scratch but will take some effort with a white pad to get the gloss back 100%.
Keep pad flat and use moderate pressure. You should also keep pad moving slowly and use overlapping passes.
Expect to have to work the area for a long time to remove the scratch and again to restore the shine/remove micro marring left by the course pad. The ROB is a VERY mild tool and does not remove much clear coat at all.
For scratches I usually reccomend a rotary but I realize you have to work with what you have. Only expierenced users should attempt using a rotary since in the wrong hands it can cause major damage.
Keep pad flat and use moderate pressure. You should also keep pad moving slowly and use overlapping passes.
Expect to have to work the area for a long time to remove the scratch and again to restore the shine/remove micro marring left by the course pad. The ROB is a VERY mild tool and does not remove much clear coat at all.
For scratches I usually reccomend a rotary but I realize you have to work with what you have. Only expierenced users should attempt using a rotary since in the wrong hands it can cause major damage.
Last edited by agentf1; Sep 10, 2007 at 12:46 PM.
Intermediate
Joined: Dec 2006
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On a scratch that small you might be better off doing it by hand. You could try something like Scratch-X on a small applicator pad. You can apply much more pressure to a small area by hand. Be sure to work it in good and you might need to go over it 2 or 3 times.
You can go back over with the PC after to smooth things out.
Tic
You can go back over with the PC after to smooth things out.
Tic
Last edited by Ticman; Sep 10, 2007 at 01:23 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,744
Likes: 2
From: The King of Bling
St. Jude Donor '10
You could try by hand but I wouldn't suggest ScratchX as it is way too mild and only good for minor spiderwebbing. Maybe give 3M 39009 and/or 39002 a try or ZPC a try.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,909
Likes: 4
From: Ponte Vedra Beach / London State: Dazed and confused
An alternative-
Slow Hand method - (apologies to Eric C) using a random orbital polisher, Menzerna Final Finish (PO 106 FA or 105FF) and a LC White VC or CCS foam pad - this polish is formulated with very finely milled micro diminishing abrasives that allows for a consistent breakdown and thus a consistent micro marring free finish when used - Start at speed # 4, move the pad slowly across the area, then speed # 5, without any pressure, when the polish starts to go clear, spray the pad with distilled water, reduce to speed # 4, then spray pad again, increase to speed # 5 and apply pressure. Apply polish at a machine linear speed (MLS) of approximately 0.25 to 0.5-inch per second for each 2-foot x 2-foot panel (hence ‘slow hand’) Burnish paint surface using an ultra-fine (100 PPI) finishing, primed foam pad (LC Black Finessing CCS Foam pad) this method is time consuming but the results are well worthwhile.
Slow Hand method - (apologies to Eric C) using a random orbital polisher, Menzerna Final Finish (PO 106 FA or 105FF) and a LC White VC or CCS foam pad - this polish is formulated with very finely milled micro diminishing abrasives that allows for a consistent breakdown and thus a consistent micro marring free finish when used - Start at speed # 4, move the pad slowly across the area, then speed # 5, without any pressure, when the polish starts to go clear, spray the pad with distilled water, reduce to speed # 4, then spray pad again, increase to speed # 5 and apply pressure. Apply polish at a machine linear speed (MLS) of approximately 0.25 to 0.5-inch per second for each 2-foot x 2-foot panel (hence ‘slow hand’) Burnish paint surface using an ultra-fine (100 PPI) finishing, primed foam pad (LC Black Finessing CCS Foam pad) this method is time consuming but the results are well worthwhile.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,034
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From: Lewes DE
yes, you can leave the buffer on an area for a few seconds if you need to, but this is not a good habit to get into. Later when you use a rotary, this BAD habit could get you into trouble.
Instead, just get into the habit of always keeping the pad moving. If you want to concentrate on a single scratch, go back and forth, up and down, repeatedly over that area. Also you can use the 4" spot buff pads to help you only concentrate on a single area. You have to get the proper backing plate for them of course - 3.5" in diameter - there are many places to get them.
Instead, just get into the habit of always keeping the pad moving. If you want to concentrate on a single scratch, go back and forth, up and down, repeatedly over that area. Also you can use the 4" spot buff pads to help you only concentrate on a single area. You have to get the proper backing plate for them of course - 3.5" in diameter - there are many places to get them.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,308
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From: Orange County California
A smaller pad indeed helps localize the area you're working, but remember that the faster speed is actually attained by a larger pad since the outside portion of the pad travels a greater distance during the same revolution as the inside portion of the pad, so it has a faster speed. In other words, the outside of the pad has a larger rotational velocity for any given RPM setting on the machine.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,909
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From: Ponte Vedra Beach / London State: Dazed and confused
A smaller pad indeed helps localize the area you're working, but remember that the faster speed is actually attained by a larger pad since the outside portion of the pad travels a greater distance during the same revolution as the inside portion of the pad, so it has a faster speed. In other words, the outside of the pad has a larger rotational velocity for any given RPM setting on the machine.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,308
Likes: 104
From: Orange County California
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,034
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From: Lewes DE
Main problem is that very large pads just do not fit the curves and contours of the Vette, nor most other cars. So what you end up doing is having unwanted pressure on the high spots - "polishing the points" of the car, which is exactly what you do not want to do. This happens to be where the sprayed clearcoat is the thinnest, so (esp with a rotary) you can burn right through the clear.
You don't want to end up with a pad sitting on top of any high points of the car while you're trying to polish the valleys. I find the 4" pads very useful to get into tight areas, like the side door panels of the C5, especially with those damn spear thingies there.
I don't think you should rely on a large pad to increase the work load of the machine - this won't turn out to be true with a ROB, because the motion of any one point on the pad really doesn't spin - it really does move in a very random motion. What's that ride at the amusement parks that does this? Can't think of the name - but the riders end up moving pretty much in a series of straight lines.
You don't want to end up with a pad sitting on top of any high points of the car while you're trying to polish the valleys. I find the 4" pads very useful to get into tight areas, like the side door panels of the C5, especially with those damn spear thingies there.
I don't think you should rely on a large pad to increase the work load of the machine - this won't turn out to be true with a ROB, because the motion of any one point on the pad really doesn't spin - it really does move in a very random motion. What's that ride at the amusement parks that does this? Can't think of the name - but the riders end up moving pretty much in a series of straight lines.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Lewes DE
here - this is what I was thinking of.
this is a bit like a random orbital buffer - each point actually spinning around two axes. so each rider almost goes in a series of straight lines.
still can't think of what this was called at Dorney Park (Allentown PA) where I grew up.
this is a bit like a random orbital buffer - each point actually spinning around two axes. so each rider almost goes in a series of straight lines.
still can't think of what this was called at Dorney Park (Allentown PA) where I grew up.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,308
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From: Orange County California
Not sure I agree with you this time, Bugman. The ROB definitely has revolutions in the true sense. It goes 'round and 'round. The shimmies and vibrations that "randomly" move fore and aft and sideways are there, too, and introduce the safety factor of not revolving in exactly the same circular pattern--thereby saving the paint from burning, of course--but it still results in randomly offset circles. It IS spinning, just taking different paths each time. In fact, the centrifugal force is so high, that the edges of my pads turn upwards using the UDM.
I've been convinced, however, that the 4" pad has a worthwhile place in my bag.
I've been convinced, however, that the 4" pad has a worthwhile place in my bag.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,909
Likes: 4
From: Ponte Vedra Beach / London State: Dazed and confused
Not sure I agree with you this time, Bugman. The ROB definitely has revolutions in the true sense. It goes 'round and 'round. The shimmies and vibrations that "randomly" move fore and aft and sideways are there, too, and introduce the safety factor of not revolving in exactly the same circular pattern--thereby saving the paint from burning, of course--but it still results in randomly offset circles. It IS spinning, just taking different paths each time. In fact, the centrifugal force is so high, that the edges of my pads turn upwards using the UDM.
I've been convinced, however, that the 4" pad has a worthwhile place in my bag.
I've been convinced, however, that the 4" pad has a worthwhile place in my bag.
Former Vendor
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 14,104
Likes: 244
From: South Florida
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,034
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From: Lewes DE
Thanks Killrwheels...
I think we're all in agreement here - the Scrambler (THAT's what it was called) spins around the points on the end, as the entire machine is also spinning. This creates kind of a random motion for the rider - what is almost like a series of straight lines.
Autogeek's analogy may be better - like the earth rotating (days) as it orbits the sun (years).
awwwww who cares -
get the small pads to concentrate on one area
I think we're all in agreement here - the Scrambler (THAT's what it was called) spins around the points on the end, as the entire machine is also spinning. This creates kind of a random motion for the rider - what is almost like a series of straight lines.
Autogeek's analogy may be better - like the earth rotating (days) as it orbits the sun (years).
awwwww who cares -
get the small pads to concentrate on one area