measuring paint thickness?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2005
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From: gresham oregon
measuring paint thickness?
I was wondering if there is anyway to tell if you have enough clear coat for buffing out scratches, say on a older corvette, or car. Not sure when they started using clear coat? Was it when they stopped using lacquer?
Uber Waxer
Joined: May 2004
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From: Hanover MD
Cruise-In 8-9-10-11 Veteran
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St. Jude Donor '08-'10
they make a gauge for fiberglass and plastic, but its pretty pricey. I think it was over a grand if memory serves me correct.
Former Vendor
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: South Florida
as offered there are several meters available, but usually several hundred dollars to much more. Knowing the metal underneath the paint is needed as some meters are specific to metal versus aluminum. The ones that guage this automatically are usually more expensive.
One individual recently picked up and reviewed a guage from Harbor Frieght. Much cheaper in price and had to be set prior to use, he suggested it worked rather well. Its clearly an option and the lower price end of the scale.
What is commonly held as true, is first only polish as necessary, thats why paint cleansers are also made. Second, always start and use the lightest polish and pad as needed to avoid more than necessary. Hope that helps a bit.
One individual recently picked up and reviewed a guage from Harbor Frieght. Much cheaper in price and had to be set prior to use, he suggested it worked rather well. Its clearly an option and the lower price end of the scale.
What is commonly held as true, is first only polish as necessary, thats why paint cleansers are also made. Second, always start and use the lightest polish and pad as needed to avoid more than necessary. Hope that helps a bit.
Safety Car
Joined: May 1999
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From: Kenton TN
Information I have received said that all Corvettes C4 and forward where clear coated and C3 and down where single stage. So basically when the Corvette plant moved from St. Louis to Bowling Green is when Corvettes starting getting clear coat paints.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,479
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From: Dallas/Grand Prairie Texas
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe clear coats began around the mid 80's.
As far as buffing them out, that's a whole different puzzle......
Each scratch is unique to itself as each is different in depth, width and length. When buffing out a scratch the main concern is depth, how deep is the scratch will determine if it can be polished out or not.
A good rule of thumb is, if you can catch it with your fingernail then even after wetsanding it there may still be a reminent left over. If you scratch it with your finger nail and feel nothing at all then it may buff out nicely.
I honestly don't think you need a guage to tell if there's enough clear to buff out a scratch.
Josh
As far as buffing them out, that's a whole different puzzle......
Each scratch is unique to itself as each is different in depth, width and length. When buffing out a scratch the main concern is depth, how deep is the scratch will determine if it can be polished out or not.
A good rule of thumb is, if you can catch it with your fingernail then even after wetsanding it there may still be a reminent left over. If you scratch it with your finger nail and feel nothing at all then it may buff out nicely.
I honestly don't think you need a guage to tell if there's enough clear to buff out a scratch.
Josh
Last edited by JoshVette; May 27, 2008 at 09:35 AM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,866
Likes: 123
From: gresham oregon
thanks for the info guys, now I need to know what a paint cleaner is. Can someone tell me what a paint cleaner is vs polish and what brand do you like for a sealer in lue of wax?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,866
Likes: 123
From: gresham oregon
as offered there are several meters available, but usually several hundred dollars to much more. Knowing the metal underneath the paint is needed as some meters are specific to metal versus aluminum. The ones that guage this automatically are usually more expensive.
One individual recently picked up and reviewed a guage from Harbor Frieght. Much cheaper in price and had to be set prior to use, he suggested it worked rather well. Its clearly an option and the lower price end of the scale.
What is commonly held as true, is first only polish as necessary, thats why paint cleansers are also made. Second, always start and use the lightest polish and pad as needed to avoid more than necessary. Hope that helps a bit.
One individual recently picked up and reviewed a guage from Harbor Frieght. Much cheaper in price and had to be set prior to use, he suggested it worked rather well. Its clearly an option and the lower price end of the scale.
What is commonly held as true, is first only polish as necessary, thats why paint cleansers are also made. Second, always start and use the lightest polish and pad as needed to avoid more than necessary. Hope that helps a bit.
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Former Vendor
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: South Florida
paint cleanser --- it is a chemical based cleaner used to remove light oxidation and old waxes and sealants from the paint. Most look like a lotion and is rubbed on and buffed off. Pinnacle and P21S are considered two of the best and easy to use.
polish --- a true polish is an abrasive paste used to remove defects on/in the surface of paint. Term is sometimes used improperly on pure paint sealants as a marketing term. Best use is with a machine and remember pad and polish choice will dicate their benefits. Some are light (finishing) and some are quite harsh (compounds).
sealer --- a paint filler. It is a product used to temporarily cover up scratches by filling them. Usually a couple washes and the product is gone unless protected properly (coated) with a heavy wax or sealant. Most true sealers like Megs #7 will additional wetness and gloss but have no protection abilities.
polish --- a true polish is an abrasive paste used to remove defects on/in the surface of paint. Term is sometimes used improperly on pure paint sealants as a marketing term. Best use is with a machine and remember pad and polish choice will dicate their benefits. Some are light (finishing) and some are quite harsh (compounds).
sealer --- a paint filler. It is a product used to temporarily cover up scratches by filling them. Usually a couple washes and the product is gone unless protected properly (coated) with a heavy wax or sealant. Most true sealers like Megs #7 will additional wetness and gloss but have no protection abilities.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,479
Likes: 13
From: Dallas/Grand Prairie Texas
paint cleanser --- it is a chemical based cleaner used to remove light oxidation and old waxes and sealants from the paint. Most look like a lotion and is rubbed on and buffed off. Pinnacle and P21S are considered two of the best and easy to use.
polish --- a true polish is an abrasive paste used to remove defects on/in the surface of paint. Term is sometimes used improperly on pure paint sealants as a marketing term. Best use is with a machine and remember pad and polish choice will dicate their benefits. Some are light (finishing) and some are quite harsh (compounds).
sealer --- a paint filler. It is a product used to temporarily cover up scratches by filling them. Usually a couple washes and the product is gone unless protected properly (coated) with a heavy wax or sealant. Most true sealers like Megs #7 will additional wetness and gloss but have no protection abilities.
polish --- a true polish is an abrasive paste used to remove defects on/in the surface of paint. Term is sometimes used improperly on pure paint sealants as a marketing term. Best use is with a machine and remember pad and polish choice will dicate their benefits. Some are light (finishing) and some are quite harsh (compounds).
sealer --- a paint filler. It is a product used to temporarily cover up scratches by filling them. Usually a couple washes and the product is gone unless protected properly (coated) with a heavy wax or sealant. Most true sealers like Megs #7 will additional wetness and gloss but have no protection abilities.
I agree with all of this but the "sealer" definition. I would say that definition is not accurate of a sealant you really described a glaze. A sealant is a protection product not a filler product. A cover up or filler product is a glaze not a sealant.
It can be very confusing as many manufacturers use the terms interchangeably.
Josh
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,596
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From: Atlanta GA
A PTG for composite or fiberglass is approx $2500.
Deflesko PosiTector 200 Series (Advanced)
I have the Defelsko Positest DFT Combo which is about $700 for use on cars with metal bodies.
When I started doing extreme corrections such as heavy compounding and now wetsanding by machine. $700 is less headache then paying to have a panel repainted.
You would actually be very suprised to see how little clear coat is removed when doing wetsanding by machine (airsander) as compared to compounding. 2000/4000 will remove about 3-4 microns.
Deflesko PosiTector 200 Series (Advanced)
I have the Defelsko Positest DFT Combo which is about $700 for use on cars with metal bodies.
When I started doing extreme corrections such as heavy compounding and now wetsanding by machine. $700 is less headache then paying to have a panel repainted.
You would actually be very suprised to see how little clear coat is removed when doing wetsanding by machine (airsander) as compared to compounding. 2000/4000 will remove about 3-4 microns.
Last edited by gmblack3; May 28, 2008 at 06:56 AM.
Uber Waxer
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From: Hanover MD
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St. Jude Donor '08-'10
using paper is very precise to remove the flaws.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Ponte Vedra Beach / London State: Dazed and confused
A digital paint thickness gauge will allow you to measure the film thickness of the paint system which includes the e-coat, primer, base coat (colour) and clear coat, total thickness is usually 4.0 – 6.0 Mils. Check the paint system both before and after wet sanding and this will tell you how much paint has been removed.
For these reasons all car manufacturers now specify that the paint thickness be measured in 0.1mil, or 1/1000th of an inch before and after any wet sanding or buffing.
The following are the maximum allowable clear coat reductions the major USA car manufacturers will allow, without compromising the clear coat; Chrysler- 0.5 mils, Ford – 0.3 mils, GM – 0.5 mils
For these reasons all car manufacturers now specify that the paint thickness be measured in 0.1mil, or 1/1000th of an inch before and after any wet sanding or buffing.
The following are the maximum allowable clear coat reductions the major USA car manufacturers will allow, without compromising the clear coat; Chrysler- 0.5 mils, Ford – 0.3 mils, GM – 0.5 mils
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,866
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From: gresham oregon
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: North Western Connecticut
