What am I doing wrong?
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 503
Likes: 5
From: HAVERTOWN PA
What am I doing wrong?
My car had the hood and front cover repainted due to an unfortunate
minor accident. The result to the hood is awesome. I wanted to buff out the deck lid as now has a noticeable difference. You can see scratches, swirls, and etching in the clear coat.
This is what I did. Purchased foam pads from autogeek. yellow, orange, white and black. Applied 3m compound with the yellow, perfect it 11 w/ the orange and Meguiars machine polish with the white then again w/ the black followed by of course Zaino.
The spots (etches in the clear are still visible) and still has scracthes but definitely better.
My car is an 01 Coupe garaged w/ 22k on the ticker.
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
minor accident. The result to the hood is awesome. I wanted to buff out the deck lid as now has a noticeable difference. You can see scratches, swirls, and etching in the clear coat.
This is what I did. Purchased foam pads from autogeek. yellow, orange, white and black. Applied 3m compound with the yellow, perfect it 11 w/ the orange and Meguiars machine polish with the white then again w/ the black followed by of course Zaino.
The spots (etches in the clear are still visible) and still has scracthes but definitely better.
My car is an 01 Coupe garaged w/ 22k on the ticker.
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Last edited by jpc0011; Nov 27, 2008 at 01:24 PM. Reason: mispell
Former Vendor
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,943
Likes: 2
From: Orlando/Oviedo FL
I am assuming that we are using a rotary (high speed/circular) polisher?
We have to break polishing or refinishing into three seperate stages (IMO) with a possible forth...
Defect Removal (aka Compounding/Cutting)
Surface Refinement (aka Polishing)
Final Polishing (aka Glazing/Jewelling/Burinishing)
All are forms of polishing, but each have seperate and different goals. I should note that each stage may require more then one step to achieve that goal.
Defect Removal- The goal is that actual removal of the defects (swirl marks, scratches, etching, rids). Depending on the depth of the defects, this might include wetsanding, heavy compounding, or light swirls. Any defects left after this step will be there at the end.
Surface Refinement- Heavy defect removal will usually leave the surface of the paint scoured. This stages goal is the refinement of that damage and the creation of a fresh, extremely level and glossy surface. If the Defect Removal stage was 'light' then Surface Refinement may not be needed. At the end of this stage the paint will be glossy, but may have ultra fine micromarring and hologramming.
Final Polishing- The final step in polishing, this goal focuses on the removal(not filling) of ultra microscopic marring that can diffuse ultimate gloss and causes holgorams or buffer trails. This is the 'hardest step' as experience and skill is required to get the truest results.
The problem with water etching is that it is often very deep into the clear coat and usually requires wetsanding for ultimate removal. Other wise the edges may round and the marks can 'come back'. Removing etching is a pretty advanced and requires significant cutting of the clear coat. It might best left to high level pros.
How comfortable are you doing this?
To try again (with out wetsanding) I would start back at the defect removal part, since the etchings where not removed. Always check your work as you go, and do not procede to less agressive steps until you are satisified.
I would try your 3M compound (which number? 3M's Perfect It 3000 Extra Cut works very nicely on Corvette clear) again. If you have a wool pad (preferably a Lake Country Purple Foamed wool as it is less aggresive then a twisted ply), I would use this. The problem with yellow foam is that it can put a lot of heat into the paint, which isn't ideal.
Do one pass, at about 1500 (with yellow foam) or 1800 rpm (with wool), until the polish is broken down. Wipe off residue and inspect. Is the etching better or is there no change. If there is no change, make another pass and inspect. After 3 or 4 trys, you might want to consider stopping as it will require wetsanding.
Perfect II has many polishes, not sure which won you used here, but their Perfect II line has a lot of filling in it and isn't a great product for getting true results. It is more designed for body shops and quick jobs then true, actual correction. I would recommend Menzerna PO83 for this job.
First try with a white pad and work on area. Now wipe the surface with alcohol and inspect in the sun. You might have light holograms, but there should be no evidence of deep swirling from the defect removal stage. If there is, repeat, switching to the orange pad for slighlty more cut. Make sure you work the polish until all the abrasives are fully exhausted so you get the best finish possible.
Once you are satisfied, move on the last step, using a gray pad (with little mechanical action) and an ultra fine polish (like Menzerna PO85rd or 3M Perfect It 3000 Ultrafina) and work the polish with light pressure at about 1500 rpm until the polish starts to breakdown, then reduce pressure and back the rpms to about 1000.
We have to break polishing or refinishing into three seperate stages (IMO) with a possible forth...
Defect Removal (aka Compounding/Cutting)
Surface Refinement (aka Polishing)
Final Polishing (aka Glazing/Jewelling/Burinishing)
All are forms of polishing, but each have seperate and different goals. I should note that each stage may require more then one step to achieve that goal.
Defect Removal- The goal is that actual removal of the defects (swirl marks, scratches, etching, rids). Depending on the depth of the defects, this might include wetsanding, heavy compounding, or light swirls. Any defects left after this step will be there at the end.
Surface Refinement- Heavy defect removal will usually leave the surface of the paint scoured. This stages goal is the refinement of that damage and the creation of a fresh, extremely level and glossy surface. If the Defect Removal stage was 'light' then Surface Refinement may not be needed. At the end of this stage the paint will be glossy, but may have ultra fine micromarring and hologramming.
Final Polishing- The final step in polishing, this goal focuses on the removal(not filling) of ultra microscopic marring that can diffuse ultimate gloss and causes holgorams or buffer trails. This is the 'hardest step' as experience and skill is required to get the truest results.
The problem with water etching is that it is often very deep into the clear coat and usually requires wetsanding for ultimate removal. Other wise the edges may round and the marks can 'come back'. Removing etching is a pretty advanced and requires significant cutting of the clear coat. It might best left to high level pros.
How comfortable are you doing this?
To try again (with out wetsanding) I would start back at the defect removal part, since the etchings where not removed. Always check your work as you go, and do not procede to less agressive steps until you are satisified.
I would try your 3M compound (which number? 3M's Perfect It 3000 Extra Cut works very nicely on Corvette clear) again. If you have a wool pad (preferably a Lake Country Purple Foamed wool as it is less aggresive then a twisted ply), I would use this. The problem with yellow foam is that it can put a lot of heat into the paint, which isn't ideal.
Do one pass, at about 1500 (with yellow foam) or 1800 rpm (with wool), until the polish is broken down. Wipe off residue and inspect. Is the etching better or is there no change. If there is no change, make another pass and inspect. After 3 or 4 trys, you might want to consider stopping as it will require wetsanding.
Perfect II has many polishes, not sure which won you used here, but their Perfect II line has a lot of filling in it and isn't a great product for getting true results. It is more designed for body shops and quick jobs then true, actual correction. I would recommend Menzerna PO83 for this job.
First try with a white pad and work on area. Now wipe the surface with alcohol and inspect in the sun. You might have light holograms, but there should be no evidence of deep swirling from the defect removal stage. If there is, repeat, switching to the orange pad for slighlty more cut. Make sure you work the polish until all the abrasives are fully exhausted so you get the best finish possible.
Once you are satisfied, move on the last step, using a gray pad (with little mechanical action) and an ultra fine polish (like Menzerna PO85rd or 3M Perfect It 3000 Ultrafina) and work the polish with light pressure at about 1500 rpm until the polish starts to breakdown, then reduce pressure and back the rpms to about 1000.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,308
Likes: 104
From: Orange County California
Biggest question is what machine you're using. Assuming you used a PC, I'd then ask how long you polished during each step. I'm not an expert, but expert advice I've gotten results in good results I get by moving only 1-2" per second across the surface. That's SLOW. And back again, and again, and again. Polish flashes after 2-3 minutes. Do it again. and again and again. It's a lot of work....that deck lid should've taken you 1-2 hours.
I don't have experience with your compounds, I use Menzerna SIP/orange and FP/white. But I have heard NOT to use the yellow pad unless you have the power of a rotary to remove blemishes that a yellow pad can cause.
I don't have experience with your compounds, I use Menzerna SIP/orange and FP/white. But I have heard NOT to use the yellow pad unless you have the power of a rotary to remove blemishes that a yellow pad can cause.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,323
Likes: 2
From: Northern NJ
I am assuming that we are using a rotary (high speed/circular) polisher?
We have to break polishing or refinishing into three seperate stages (IMO) with a possible forth...
Defect Removal (aka Compounding/Cutting)
Surface Refinement (aka Polishing)
Final Polishing (aka Glazing/Jewelling/Burinishing)
All are forms of polishing, but each have seperate and different goals. I should note that each stage may require more then one step to achieve that goal.
Defect Removal- The goal is that actual removal of the defects (swirl marks, scratches, etching, rids). Depending on the depth of the defects, this might include wetsanding, heavy compounding, or light swirls. Any defects left after this step will be there at the end.
Surface Refinement- Heavy defect removal will usually leave the surface of the paint scoured. This stages goal is the refinement of that damage and the creation of a fresh, extremely level and glossy surface. If the Defect Removal stage was 'light' then Surface Refinement may not be needed. At the end of this stage the paint will be glossy, but may have ultra fine micromarring and hologramming.
Final Polishing- The final step in polishing, this goal focuses on the removal(not filling) of ultra microscopic marring that can diffuse ultimate gloss and causes holgorams or buffer trails. This is the 'hardest step' as experience and skill is required to get the truest results.
The problem with water etching is that it is often very deep into the clear coat and usually requires wetsanding for ultimate removal. Other wise the edges may round and the marks can 'come back'. Removing etching is a pretty advanced and requires significant cutting of the clear coat. It might best left to high level pros.
How comfortable are you doing this?
To try again (with out wetsanding) I would start back at the defect removal part, since the etchings where not removed. Always check your work as you go, and do not procede to less agressive steps until you are satisified.
I would try your 3M compound (which number? 3M's Perfect It 3000 Extra Cut works very nicely on Corvette clear) again. If you have a wool pad (preferably a Lake Country Purple Foamed wool as it is less aggresive then a twisted ply), I would use this. The problem with yellow foam is that it can put a lot of heat into the paint, which isn't ideal.
Do one pass, at about 1500 (with yellow foam) or 1800 rpm (with wool), until the polish is broken down. Wipe off residue and inspect. Is the etching better or is there no change. If there is no change, make another pass and inspect. After 3 or 4 trys, you might want to consider stopping as it will require wetsanding.
Perfect II has many polishes, not sure which won you used here, but their Perfect II line has a lot of filling in it and isn't a great product for getting true results. It is more designed for body shops and quick jobs then true, actual correction. I would recommend Menzerna PO83 for this job.
First try with a white pad and work on area. Now wipe the surface with alcohol and inspect in the sun. You might have light holograms, but there should be no evidence of deep swirling from the defect removal stage. If there is, repeat, switching to the orange pad for slighlty more cut. Make sure you work the polish until all the abrasives are fully exhausted so you get the best finish possible.
Once you are satisfied, move on the last step, using a gray pad (with little mechanical action) and an ultra fine polish (like Menzerna PO85rd or 3M Perfect It 3000 Ultrafina) and work the polish with light pressure at about 1500 rpm until the polish starts to breakdown, then reduce pressure and back the rpms to about 1000.
We have to break polishing or refinishing into three seperate stages (IMO) with a possible forth...
Defect Removal (aka Compounding/Cutting)
Surface Refinement (aka Polishing)
Final Polishing (aka Glazing/Jewelling/Burinishing)
All are forms of polishing, but each have seperate and different goals. I should note that each stage may require more then one step to achieve that goal.
Defect Removal- The goal is that actual removal of the defects (swirl marks, scratches, etching, rids). Depending on the depth of the defects, this might include wetsanding, heavy compounding, or light swirls. Any defects left after this step will be there at the end.
Surface Refinement- Heavy defect removal will usually leave the surface of the paint scoured. This stages goal is the refinement of that damage and the creation of a fresh, extremely level and glossy surface. If the Defect Removal stage was 'light' then Surface Refinement may not be needed. At the end of this stage the paint will be glossy, but may have ultra fine micromarring and hologramming.
Final Polishing- The final step in polishing, this goal focuses on the removal(not filling) of ultra microscopic marring that can diffuse ultimate gloss and causes holgorams or buffer trails. This is the 'hardest step' as experience and skill is required to get the truest results.
The problem with water etching is that it is often very deep into the clear coat and usually requires wetsanding for ultimate removal. Other wise the edges may round and the marks can 'come back'. Removing etching is a pretty advanced and requires significant cutting of the clear coat. It might best left to high level pros.
How comfortable are you doing this?
To try again (with out wetsanding) I would start back at the defect removal part, since the etchings where not removed. Always check your work as you go, and do not procede to less agressive steps until you are satisified.
I would try your 3M compound (which number? 3M's Perfect It 3000 Extra Cut works very nicely on Corvette clear) again. If you have a wool pad (preferably a Lake Country Purple Foamed wool as it is less aggresive then a twisted ply), I would use this. The problem with yellow foam is that it can put a lot of heat into the paint, which isn't ideal.
Do one pass, at about 1500 (with yellow foam) or 1800 rpm (with wool), until the polish is broken down. Wipe off residue and inspect. Is the etching better or is there no change. If there is no change, make another pass and inspect. After 3 or 4 trys, you might want to consider stopping as it will require wetsanding.
Perfect II has many polishes, not sure which won you used here, but their Perfect II line has a lot of filling in it and isn't a great product for getting true results. It is more designed for body shops and quick jobs then true, actual correction. I would recommend Menzerna PO83 for this job.
First try with a white pad and work on area. Now wipe the surface with alcohol and inspect in the sun. You might have light holograms, but there should be no evidence of deep swirling from the defect removal stage. If there is, repeat, switching to the orange pad for slighlty more cut. Make sure you work the polish until all the abrasives are fully exhausted so you get the best finish possible.
Once you are satisfied, move on the last step, using a gray pad (with little mechanical action) and an ultra fine polish (like Menzerna PO85rd or 3M Perfect It 3000 Ultrafina) and work the polish with light pressure at about 1500 rpm until the polish starts to breakdown, then reduce pressure and back the rpms to about 1000.
what he said....
