That might help me later,
I am making progress now with 5.5 pads and Wolfgangs T.S.R. There are some scratches that I will have to live with till next years detail. The car looks good overall and I am now going over it with Menzerna Nano 1066 with a 5.5 white polishing pad.
Thanks

 

......Menzerna PO85RD and 106FA and FF II are all three excellent finishing polishes........

 

On a personal note, I would say that it depends on the type of machine you are using to polish with (or finish with) as to which polish 'may' produce better results.

On a rotary polisher, I believe Menzerna will finish out better. With a Dual-Action or Orbital Polisher I put my faith in M205 (and even M105 on occasion).

Part of the problem is that you cannot work Menzerna like the new SMAT Meguiar's polishes and you cannot work Meguiar's like Menzerna. As with anything, the process is far more important then the actual polishes. The focus, IMO, should always be to use each product to its highest potential, rather then focus on the product being used.

A rotary will break down abrasives in the most even manner possible, which will micro polish the paint to it's absolute smoothest. However the oscilting motion of a dual-action or random orbital may break the abrasives unevenly, which at the microscopic level may not bring paint to it's highest level.

On the flip side, a finishing polish like M205 doesn't feature diminishing abrasives, there for the abrasives leave an even surface regardless of the machine used to apply them. It has been my experience, after speaking with the experts who helped create the polishes, and hours and hours of experience implementing their suggestions, that M205 will finish out truer and better then a comparable diminishing abrasive polish. It is a matter of science vs. what flavor or what month it may be.

In terms of cutting power on a Porter Cable or G110 (or Flex or Rotary) SIP doesn't come close to Meguiars M105. Nor should it. SIP is probably the best medium cut polish available when it works, and for good reasons. With all diminishing abrasive polishes, SIP basically has so much to give, and then it is done (or nothing more then a lubricant on the pad). Of course M105 requires a learning curve on a rotary because the lubrication will dry up quickly.

On a PC or Flex, M105 remove defects at a rate that makes SIP seem like a turtle, while finishing out almost as well (in some cases better). I have removed wet sanding marks on an entire hood, including the sanding texture, with M105 and a Porter Cable, using the methods recommended to me by Kevin Brown. On the other hand, SIP was able to restore most of the gloss but left behind multiple tracer scratches and slight hazing in spots. On Corvette's harder clear coat the difference becomes much more pronounced.

I think when Scott refers to detailers he trusts, I wouldn't be surprised if most, if not all of them are using a rotary polisher, which as I mentioned earlier changes the game completely. But when it comes down to polishing with a dual-action I don't think the results are even that close. M105 will cut far more and M205 will finish the paint as well (maybe better) in less time.

That said, nothing, IMO can 'beat' the finish a rotary polisher leaves behind IMO, when used by somebody who has invested their life into learning how to master it. Since most enthusiasts don't have that luxury and use orbital style machines, I think M105/M205 make an interesting alternative if somebody is looking for more polishing power and quicker results.

 

.......good post.

 

I have polished the last 5 cars with M105/M205. I am here to tell you that the KBM is the real deal. All w/ a PC, I have not picked up a rotary in 2 months. (except to spin pads dry after washing)

Just think the following was done with a PC. Passed 5x straight IPA wipedowns.



Kevin Brown will be releasing his "paper" on the process soon.

 

Todd is absolutely correct, and sorry internet posts cannot always convey what is trying to be said. The professionals often use a rotary and have shown clear and valuable results when using the Menzerna Polishes. I have however also seen great results with the Flex buffer and the same polishes. Even the PC when used with small pads and these polishes have shown a clear difference in start to finish. If you look at all the praises for Menzerna on every detailing site it has become the #1 choice in most detailing aersonals. Its easy to use, no hard learning curve, and finishes down to a super reflective and glossy finish.

The 105/205 combo is relatively new*, and obviously the Kevin Brown method (which hasnt officiallly even been released and some already used in past as best practices) has brought them to light as a worthy competitor to Menzerna Polishes. I dont dismiss the techniques and polishes ability, but have not seen them stand the test of time yet either. If we can get two years out of the combo (like we did with SIP/Nano) then I am all for it. But I would not count Menzerna out as they are consistently upgrading their polishes and I personally feel either combo will provide the same award winning results when used properly.

It also hard to move thru the hype of a new product , or line, and get to the real meat without entrusting several personal confidents within the industry. I choose to use professional detailers as its more than 1 detailing session and then exclaiming "The Best Polish" has been found. I tend to follow those showing/offering the pro's/con's of each product as to date no product is the best of everything so if someone exclaims it is, then easier to dismiss.

I also provide hints and advice to hobbist and weekend detailers more so than professionals, and 105 is quite abrasive and used with the wrong pad, pressure, and machines in the wrong hands could do alot of harm that will need professional repair. I dont find it quite as much with SIP but reward caution to any use of a swirl remover. So many reasons I personally prefer Menzerna polishes currently.

Thats why we offer both choices at Autogeek, and truthfully it comes down to your choice and budget. When I offer a personal opinion, I state it respectfully so that it can be decifered. Autogeek has not and does not stand with one versus the other.

Having used 205 in several settings in the past, I dont feel personally it finishes down as glossy as Menzerna Nano. *105 has been changed, thats a fact introduced by Megs once it made the product DA compatible. So in my opinion, the product combo is relatively new.

I hope this deepens my explanation and comments ... and I am happy to see competition between polish makers which ultimately benefits us all with better products.

 

Have you ever used M105 w/ a PC?

In my testing, I have applied extreme amounts of pressure using M105/orange pad w/ a PC at speed 6. Pressure so extreme that the pad spins backwards. I do not recommend applying that much pressure with a PC using any polish.

Was there any damage to the paint? No.

How much clearcoat was removed? Using my Defelsko Positest DFT Combo PTG and taking 10 readings on each side of a tape line. The clearcoat was reduced only by an average of 1-2 microns. Max reading was 3 microns.

Here is a pic to show you what defects where removed:



My personal exterience shows that the newer (DA approved) M105 actually has less cut then the original forumula.

M105 is the ONLY compound/polish that I know of that can remove defects like the ones pictured above with a PC and pass a wipedown test using straight IPA 5x.

 

Hey Bryan,

I currently have found that Menzerna and Flex to be what "I" want/need in a polish and buffer system currently. Whats more important as to date, more individuals have tried and had success with the same combo. Dare to say "A proven combo" or it might end up on another board out of context

I have used the first offering of 105 several times which I personally liken more towards Menzernas Powergloss offering. I personally consider polishes in three general categories (compound, swirl remover/polish, finishing polish) based upon uses. Yes, there are degrees within each level but pad choice will also effect polish and will the buffer.

I was discussing the original 105 when warning that it can do some damage with PC / Pad / Pressure in an inexperienced hand. With no diminishing abrasives and longer work times it "could" be more harmful in this setting IMO. Sorry for any miscommunication on your favorite polish and being more direct in post as to version. I tried unsuccessfully to differenciate them.

I agree that based upon some initial testing and more than several contacts the newer DA Compatible 105 is quite a bit less abrasive. (thats why I originally offered SIP as its competition) . It is my hope anyone with a PC considering this combo research that the version of 105 being sold to them is the newer DA compatible version. We offer ours on site but abrasive scale on bottle still shows highly abrasive by Megs.

It is ashame that your issues for Autogeek since long before I arrived consistently seems to find you at arms with me. I meant your product choice, buffer choice, and even power cord of choice no disrespect. It all comes down to personal opinions, and we all have one of those too.

 

You are free to post your comments about what you really ment. Nothing was taken out of context, it was a direct quote.

My response to you is all about the misinformation you post about M105 then who you work for. A person in your position should hold themselves to a higher standard when it comes to making comments about products they don't have a lot of experience with. I mean god forbid that a detailer who has polished over 120 cars in the past 3 years might know a little more about paint polishing then someone who has maybe polished his own cars and a few others in the same time frame.

So now you are claiming that SIP has more cut then the newer M105 with a PC?

Has Menzerna ever designed a product to work with a PC? Some of them may work with a PC, but most of the menzerna line was designed to work with a rotary.