BudgetPlan1

Well...it was real nice for a week! The ISM + Infinity really lends a nice, mile-deep look to the non-metallic black, car has never looked quite this 'rich' before.

Unfortunately rocks bouncing off construction trucks on the freeway don't care about stuff like that. Upon washing for the first time since application, have a nice, deep gouge right in the hood now.

PPF wouldn't have even saved this; its deep and jagged.

I give up :headbang:

Esoteric Detail

Ouch, sorry to see.

Actually within a few weeks of getting my front end wrapped essentially a boulder hit my hood and was so bad it went trough the PPF and paint. Nothing would have saved it.

-- Ryan

Vertex

Great information. What would your method be for a new car? I was thinking clay,geyon prep and coating. Also if you were applying for the first time is Mckees 37 actually the easiest as they say are would you stick with kamikaze? TIA

Esoteric Detail

I must interject here... if you are claying the car you MUST polish it afterward. You are introducing marring to the paint even if you can't overtly see it. Please watch this ENTIRE video for info...



I would recommend a decon wash with iron x, clay, polish, prep, then coating.

BudgetPlan1

Obviousy a fan of the Kamikaze, for my needs it's the best I've found...and I did a lot if searching.

That said, what are you looking for in a coating? Durability, self-cleaning properties, ease of maintenance? Beading or sheeting w respect to water behavior? As for looks, a sharp, hard candy gloss or a deeper wax like glow? A kinda molten glass look?

A look thru the vendors website descriptions of the products can help with most of those options.

As for application, Miyabi is no harder than McKees (again...IMO) and I actually found Miyabi easier as it took a bit to get that spray bottle/foam applicator thing down with the McKees. If you add the ISM, have to work a bit quicker but vendor has some pretty good vids on application and coatings in general on their website and youtube.

I did see a silver car recently that I used McKees on last summer, daily driver although only 5k a year, and I have to say I was surprised at how good it still looked. I have a feeling the sides had given up as far as protection goes (as they did last year with WG Uber Ceramic on my car) but it stil looked much better than your average silver sedan.

For me, it comes down to my completely subjective opinion of the 'ol good, better, best ranking structure: McKees is good, especially in a value sense, Miyabi is better and Miyabi +ISM is best.

Ask someone else though and I'll bet you get a different answer...nature of the beast when picking 'a best'.

As for the prep,...sometimes I forget where I left off when polishing a panel (or if I've even done any part of the panel yet) so the prep part is best left for the Pro's and accomplished detailers...safer that way.

Edit: added links I was too lazy to deal with last night. Can find links/vids all over the web regarding coatings...the below are easy cuz they're all in one place and they're pretty comprehensive

If'n ya don't wanna jump right in to a pure coating, can sample a bit of the coating experience via something like Gyeon Can Coat, maintain it with something like Gyeon Wetcoat going forward (or just give Gyeon Wetcoat a try...if you'd like, PM me your address and I'll send ya out some Wetcoat to try at the low, low price of $0.00...and I'll even pay shipping. I have some left in a 4L jug and I've since gone minimalist on SiO2 products so don't really use it much any more)

Gyeon Can Coat

Gyeon WetCoat

Or give Overcoat a shot as a standalone (or over another coating...like McKees if that's what you feel most comfortable starting with); it's an amazing product:

Kinda gives you a chance to live with the coating 'experience' without getting into the full deal; who knows, you may not like coatings...some don't and it's certainly a valid view point.

Application vids for some products; the Gyeon Mohs clip filled with lotsa general coating info as well:
Miyabi Application


ISM Application

Gyeon Mohs

Vertex

Wow, lots of information. Thanks. My wife had a black Miata daily driver that set out in the Texas sun(garage is for the vette and boat) that I struggled to keep looking decent but thankfully I talked her into a silver Equinox which except for the larger amount of sheet metal,should be easier to keep. My desire is to put something on to protect and still shine. I want to apply once a year and then just an occasional wash. I will go through the videos you sent when I have a better connection. I want to do hers and learn what I'm doing so I can eventually do the vette with some degree of confidence. I thank you for the amount of time and effort spent on my question.

BudgetPlan1

No worries, glad to help. I've only been involved with this stuff for a little over a year and when I was seeking info, lotsa folks helped me out, not the least of which are the folks at Esoteric; heck, sent 'em an e-mail with a Miyabi/ISM question late last Friday when they were probably walking out the door and got a pretty much immediate response.

Check out their YouTube channel, lostsa product videos/reviews that include not just product-specific info but overall theoretical information regarding detailing product 'classes' as a whole (i.e coatings, sealants, polishes, compounds, etc). Good stuff and if you watch the application specific parts long enough, you can even pick up methodologies and techniques that they likely do outta muscle memory that I haven't developed, nor even though about.

Watched the ISM video a few times before doing it on the Vette and watching very closely the hands/grip on the application block of the person applying (Dan, perhaps?), I kinda noticed I was using much more pressure/tension when applying ISM (based on the fact I was holding the block much tighter than he appeared to be) as well as product amount applied to the pad and I hit the 'Ah-Ha' moment where ISM application clicked for me as far as 'relaxed' application goes, leading to much easier results. Watching carefully (hooray for chromecast and 60" HDTV's) you can see that on final buffing of coatings, they don't just concentrate on the panel it's being applied to but adjacent panels as well in case any coating go 'pushed' to those panels, a vital aspect to avoid high spots on those adjacent panels.

It's incredible the amount of peripheral info ya can get from the vids; how they hold polishing machines around complex curves, how they get into corners of interior glass, application amounts...the videos are really expanding into libraries on not just products, but techniques. Very, very valuable stuff to help avoid things you'd otherwise only learn by doing...and re-doing if ya missed something because it just never occurred to you how the slightest inconsistencies really, really matter with respect to final results.

Have applied ISM successfully to about 4 cars previously but this adjustment in technique I got from a very subtle part of the video made all the difference in the world. Good stuff and not really having much live, personal interaction/training with established professionals in my little detailing world, I need all the help I can get.

As I mentioned above, if ya wanna give Wetcoat a try to dip your toe in the SiO2 world, just lemme know and I'll send ya some of my extra as I'll likely not use it much anymore.

BudgetPlan1

500ml Wetcoat on the way, PM'd ya tracking info...Enjoy.

WhiteDiamond

Two things: First wanted to put a thank you out to BudgetPlan1 for the information in this post and many others I have found over the last few months on the various choices in coatings. You helped me make my decision on what coating to try.

Next, want to share my experience with Kamikaze Miyabi and ISM coat so far. This is my very first time with application of any material that can be considered a coating. I am a long time Zaino devotee and just cannot continue that path due to amount of upkeep required. The first car I tried was immediately followed by doing the 2nd vehicle, as the result with only Miyabi was fantastic!! First vehicle: 2014 Ford Raptor SE in Ruby Red Metallic. Extensive paint correction needed on this vehicle as it is used as intended on occasion and it suffers the worst of the weather duties here in Colorado as well. Miyabi went on almost as exactly as described in this thread and in the Esoteric Video. Absolutely stunned with how easy it was. I did 2 panels at a time and even left 5-8 minutes between application end and actual start of removal by MF towel. Dwell time on surface was between 12-14 minutes. Temp was mid 60s and humidity is pretty low right now. Miyabi makes it easy to see it on application, during its set up/begin cure time, and on removal. Just could not be easier. 2 coats on this vehicle seperated by a little over 12 hours between coats.

2nd vehicle to get Miyabi was my 2007 LMB Z06. The car is keep immaculate and only needed a light finish buff with a white pad and Sonax perfect finish. Again, Miyabi went on excellent. Easy to control and see on the darker LMB paint. Again, dwell time was in the 12- 15 minute time frame and I continued with my 2 panel at a time application. On the Vette, I could have probably done 3 panels, say and entire side, at a time, as I am so used to applying Zaino to this vehicle....It is second nature to me.

Miyabi left both vehicles with a spectacular shine and great reflective. Extremely clean and smooth look. It does not have that "glow" so many talk about with a typical wax or hybrid wax. The color and metallics in both the Ruby Red and LMB just come out and show.

Ok, on to the ISM coat. It is only on the Raptor at this time, as I ran into a problem. I tried using the included dropper from Kamikaze and found this item to be a worthless device included with an, otherwise, great product. Save yourself the pain and just order the ISM Coat and the Pipets offered by same vendor, as the ISM Coat is a heavier material and the Kamikaze dropper just won't deliver product to your pad/applicator as you wish. With my delay, the Raptor ended up with a wash once the Pipets arrived. WOW!!!! The very little that was on the surface just come off easy! I used a highly diluted Gyeon foam pre, Gyeon Bathe wash, and Gyeon silk drying towl. Just clean.....I mean, just clean.

Ok, moved on to ISM application and it included application to black trim pieces found on the Raptor: hood vents, fender vents, extensive cowl piece, along with panels between side windows. ISM went on with a tad more "tack" than the Miyabi. What I mean is, you could feel a tad bit of drag as it went on. Did one panel at a time, just as Esoteric video showed, and let is set up about 5 to 7 minutes. Wiped off fine and was easy to visualise as it was removed. Application on the plastic pieces was just as easy. Did leave plastic trim more black in appearance(newer looking) and came off easily.

I have not washed the Raptor since ISM Coating applied, but the appearance did change. It now has a depth to it. Very similar to a caranuba, but not quite. Too me, the finish out at this time is stunning. It would take professional detailers to even comment on the appearance between this truck and the same done up with a high level Caranuba, I am very confident of that. This is the end of the line on coatings for the truck. It will be maintained with Overcoat, but no other products. The Vette will follow with ISM Coating in a week or two and that coating will be followed by the Kamikaze wax.


Ok, long post, I know. To sum up, anyone on the fence and with average detail skill, don't be scared. Miyabi is an easy product to work with. If your paint is clean or you can do the correction, this is the path.

BudgetPlan1

Glad to hear it went well, it's good stuff.

I messed about with some other toppers/boosters/SiO2 products on top of Kamikaze but in the end, washing with Gyeon Bathe and maintaining with Overcoat is all that is needed.

I think you'll dig the Infinity Wax, it adds somewhat of another 'dimension' to the overall look...fun stuff.

Grzldvt1

Will have to dive in here myself. and have t agree Kamikaze is the best I have found of the non-pro ceramics.
I did a Signature Red Model S with 2 coats of Kamikaze, and a third of ISM, with a final of Overcoat and the results were nothing less than stunning.

BudgetPlan1

Have you ever used their Pro-Only Enrei? Never hear much about it...and it looks mighty pricey based on packaging alone. Someone (an ya know how that goes) mentioned it was in same class as Crystal Serum, that is, needs sanding for removal.

Don't hear much about "ISM Pro" either...

Good stuff regardless...

Nicole Dunchouk

Grzldvt1

I contacted them about the Pro line, and they did not like the pictures on my website. Really, while 90% are mine, and there is a long story, the people taking pics are not pro photographers. I told them I am in an area of Silicon Valley where the median income in a 15 sq mile area is $350K/ Per person(counts kid and spouses not working for income) I can put them on the map. Never heard anything back.
What is even funnier I approached Gyeon and they wanted pictures of my studio. Sent them pictures of my "studio" which is a funky building built in the 30"s. Not beautiful by any stretch, but my customer base is mostly exotics and high end cars.
Really you are more worried about what my shop looks like than how much product I can move with very high end cars... Pathetic.....

Feynlab was the ticket. Talked to them, they knew my area and jumped all over it.
I am really starting to like the Feynlab product line. I did a $250k 71 Benz with Feynlab Ceramic this week and it was simply stunning. I thought the customer was going to wet their pants, they were so happy. This is an incredibly rare Benz that is going to be put in shows almost every week from now until October. Customer took a pantload of cards to take to the shows and pass out.
I am going to drop Kamikaze and offer Ceramic Pro and Feynlab product lines to my customer base.

BudgetPlan1

Interesting...in a WTF kinda way...and unfortunate but in the end, their loss I guess.

Always enjoyed the Feynlab folks, very nice and helpful when I talk to them. Ceramic + Ceramic Light is doing well on vehicle I used it on, as mentioned, very, very brilliant kinda shine. Might look around for a white or silver vehicle to use it on to see how it brings out those colors...

highdef

Hi everyone. I recently bought kamikaze miyabi coating and having trouble with the application... no longer than applying to my car, it got super sticky. The outside temperature in my garage was normal and literally making a single swipe with the product made the applicator start sticking to the car.

Anyone have advice on how to solve the issue or what I may be doing wrong?

BudgetPlan1

Given decent prep prior to application, never experienced stickiness to that extent...even in application temps nearing 90. Few drops in a line on microsuede wrapped block will get 1/4 of a hood... occasionally over application will cause a little drag.

Did you watch the application vid?