I may be opening the flood gates here... Does anyone have any recommendations on using an electric buffer to shine the Little Red Coupe? Pros and cons, things to look out for, best practices, etc. My neighbor has a C4 and swears by the polisher, but I'm not so sure. I like the control and get using my own hands to wax and polish the car and feel al lot of damage can be done in a very short time if the electric polisher isn't used just right. Thanks!

:seeya

 

First off you can cause alot more damage to your paint if you use a buffer if you don't know how to use it. Also you use more of the product because of a buffer.

The pros on using a buffer, the job is easier, quicker, and sometimes comes out better than by hand.

Personally I like to use my hands, I have to buffers and only used them once. I get better results without the buffer.

Also I let my friend detail my car because he use too be a detailer. Big mistake :mad . I saw alot of swirl marks on my baby. I was not happy at all. I stripped it down completely yesterday and had to use swirl remover. And then the polish. I still need to finish it up that how bad of a job he did. I had to sometimes go over the same spot twice to get the swirls out.

Oh and he used a buffer and he burn some clearcoat off my paint. :mad :nono: I know he didn't mean top, but he never told me. Thats the last time I have a friend do something like that. :cheers:

 

For routine wax/sealant application - I prefer doing it by hand. For more aggressive polishing/swirl removal - I have used the Porter Cable 7424 random orbital polisher. Most people tend to believe it is relatively fooloproof - much safer than a rotary, which can really do some damage. I agree as long as you use common sense with the orbital buffer - don't use too much pressure, don't use really harsh products, etc., you should be fine. I have used 3M SMR and the orbital bufer used it on non-vette red GM paint with good results. :seeya

 

What follows is a How-To that I saw a while back and copied. Ignore the references to pictures - they don't matter. Bottom line is that this works, is very much better than hand application, and with the products and techniques listed is as safe as houses.

Porter Cable For Beginners:

Posted by: Steve Litscher (steve@gurureports.org) on 2002-11-29

For those who haven't experienced the rewarding results that the Porter Cable Random Orbital buffer provides, you're in for quite a surprise when you finally take the leap and purchase one of these wonderful tools. This thread was written to serve as a guide for the first time user or the potential Porter Cable purchaser.

Before we begin, let's look at some common acronyms that we'll use throughout the document.

PC = Porter Cable, used to abbreviate "Porter Cable Random Orbital Buffer"
SMR = Swirl Mark Remover, typically 3M's Swirl Mark Remover product (P/N 39009 or 39109)
DACP = Dual Action Cleaner Polish (Made by Meguiar's, P/N M8083)
FI-II = Finesse-It II, made by 3M, P/N 39003
CMA = Classic Motoring Accessories, retailer for many great detailing products

The Basics
You can purchase a PC from many different locations including: CMA, Coastaltool.com, Griot's Garage, Home Depot and Lowes. What's the difference between buying a PC from CMA and Griot's Garage? Price. Griot's charges about $50-$80 more for the same tool that everyone else sells. I've emphasized that on purpose, because contrary to what Griot's would like you to believe, the tool that they sell is nothing special when compared to everyone else's.

There are several different "models" of the PC that you can purchase. These models are:

7336: Called a "sander" by Porter Cable, includes a 6" counterweight and 6" sanding pad, P/N 16000
7336SP: Sander/Polisher, includes plastic carrying case, 6" counterweight, 6" sanding pad, and 6" polishing pad, P/N 54745

7424: Called a "polisher" by Porter Cable, includes 5" counterweight and 6" polishing pad
7424SP: Similar to 7336SP, but uses a 5" counterweight and 5" sanding pad, P/N 13700.

For reference, Griot's Garage sells the 97366, which is a 7336 that includes dust collection parts and they use a velcro-backed, Porter Cable 6" sanding pad (with holes), P/N 18001. This pad can be purchased separately for around $10.

Note that most buffing pads are 6" in diameter, and thus, your PC should have a 6" counterweight. Some will argue that the 5" counterweight is fine for 6" pad use; however, I have found that to be untrue. The vibrations that are generated at higher speeds when using a 5" weight and a 6" pad are nearly unacceptable. Further, while speaking to a representative for PC, I learned that the increased vibrations can lead to bearing damage within the PC's drive assembly. Do yourself a favor and use the right counterweight for the job.

Here ais a picture of the "basic" PC. (Picture #1)

Picture of the velcro-backing plate from Porter Cable, P/N 18001, (Picture #2)

Regardless of which model you purchase, they all share the same "body", which includes:

3.7Amp motor (110 v)
2500 - 6000 orbits per minute with variable speed control (level 1-6)
5/16" spindle diameter
Around 6 lbs total weight
Adjustable side handle (can be mounted on the "left" or "right" side of buffer body)

The average street price for a 7336 is right around $125.

Finally, note that when we refer to the PC, we're usually talking about the Random Orbital buffers, and not the direct drive buffers (similar to what professional detailers use). The Random Orbital nature of these buffers almost guarantees a swirl free finish, and you don't have to worry about burning through paint or otherwise damaging your paint.

The Accessories
The PC is pretty much worthless without the proper backing plate, pads, and buffing products. The backing plate is the device that holds the pad to the machine, and is usually velcro-backed. They are typically made of plastic, and thread on to the shaft of the PC motor, thus making the backing plates interchangeable.

I strongly advise against using the pads that come with the PC tool. They are not very good for enthusiast level detailing, and will often introduce new swirls and damage, rather than correcting swirls and removing damage. Do not skimp when it comes to buying the proper pads for your PC.

It's no secret that my personal favorite pads are the foam pads from Lake Country Manufacturing. Unfortunately, I don't think you can buy the pads directly from Lake Country Manufacturing, so you'll have to find a retailer for them. I prefer to buy my pads from Classic Motoring Accessories.

There are several different types of foam pads to choose from, including: cutting, cleaning, leveling, polishing and waxing pads. These terms might not be the most accurate, but they convey what we're trying to achieve with each phase. (Picture #3)

Here is an example of a Cutting pad (it's actually wool). The wool pad will quickly cut through swirls, oxidation and other undesirables. It is also extremely aggressive, and requires fairly careful use - it is the only pad that *could* cause damage to your paint. Wool fibers are fairly abrasive, and they generate heat, which accelerates and amplifies the cutting and cleaning properties of products like SMR. (Picture #4)

Here is an example of a Cleaning pad (it's foam). This is what we usually refer to as a "Yellow" pad from CMA. It has a contoured surface, which makes it very desirable, as it minimizes product splatter, and allows you to vary the cutting action depending on how much pressure you apply to the pad. As you apply more pressure to the pad, the pad 'flattens' and thus you have more surface area touching the car, which in turn generates more heat and cutting action. (Picture #5)

Here is an example of an orange Leveling pad (foam). This is a brand new pad that CMA just unveiled. It has a "memory foam" feel to it, and is supposed to be as aggressive as a Yellow pad, while polishing like a White pad would. I've tried them and think they're OK, but I still prefer the Yellow and White pads over this one. (Picture #6)

Here is an example of a white Polishing pad (foam). Very similar to a Yellow pad from CMA, including the contoured pad surface. White pads are for polishing, which means they're less aggressive than the Yellow pads, and will help produce more shine. (Picture #7)

Here is an example of a black Waxing pad (foam). A very soft pad that's designed for applying wax to the surface of a vehicle. It has virtually no cutting/cleaning power, and will not repair any damages that may exist on the vehicle's paint. I don't use these too often, as I usually apply wax by hand. (Picture #8)

Not pictured are the various bonnets that are also available for the PC. You can buy microfiber bonnets, terry bonnets, and foam bonnets. Bonnets are usually used for wax/polish removal; but, thanks to microfiber towels, I find it's much easier to remove residue by hand with a microfiber towel. I have various bonnets at home, but didn't feel like photographing them, because I really don't advocate their use.

Many other manufacturers also make pads, including Meguiar's, 3M, and so on. I've tried almost every pad there is, and still find myself returning to the Lake Country pads. They appear to be more durable, they're priced right, and they're relatively fool proof - they work efficiently and effectively. Durability is the main reason I prefer Lake Country pads; the other one's I've used have usually had Velcro issues after a few uses.

Using the PC
A lot of people are often scared of the PC, because they equate it with the older, heavy duty rotary buffers. Rest assured that the PC can be used quite easily, and without trauma.

Before you use your PC, make sure you have the following:

- Heavy Duty extension cord: I prefer a contractor grade cord (14 ga/3 wire) because the larger gauge insures that you won't have any fire hazards, and the larger gauge won't starve the PC for power. Be extremely careful when using the PC in a damp environment - we don't want anyone to get a "jolt".

- Pads: have plenty of pads available to you

- Buffing towels: I prefer microfiber

- Proper products: SMR, Dual Action Cleaner Polish, Glaze, etc.

- Good lighting: there's no substitute for proper lighting when buffing.

- A clean vehicle: DO NOT BUFF A DIRTY VEHICLE. Make sure it's washed, dried and dirt free.

- Shade: Don't work in the sun; the sunlight will make buffing a real pain (and potentially damaging)

- Mask off black trim pieces and badges: This will make the detailing process much easier, as you don't have to worry about staining your trim and badges with wax/buffing compound. Use a quality masking tape, like 3M's tape.

When using a PC, you always want to go with the least abrasive method for correcting the finish as possible. So, I usually start with a little experimenting before I finalize my detailing plan. I say to always go gentle rather than aggressive because you only have so much clear/paint on your vehicle - buffing removes a very tiny amount of that surface. Going with something that's more aggressive than what you need could potentially remove more paint/clear than necessary.

I like to start with a Yellow pad and a product like 3M's Swirl Mark Remover (39009 = for Dark Cars; 39109 = for Light Cars). I mount the pad to the PC's backing plate (velcro), and apply a small amount of SMR to the yellow foam pad. When applying product to the pad, I like to use a "drizzle" motion - I randomly drizzle product all over the pad; I use about 0.5 oz of product to "load" the pad, then apply more product to the pad as necessary (more on this later).

Place the pad flat against the surface of the vehicle, and mentally draw out a small area to work with. I prefer to work in areas that are no bigger than 3'x2'. So, if I were working on a hood, I might divide the hood into quarters and work one quarter at a time.

Set the PC's speed to about "4" (on the dial) and carefully drape the cord over your shoulder and away from the vehicle. You can purchase a device like the Monkey Tail from CMA (it's a soft protective sleeve for the cord), but I prefer to run the cord up and over my shoulder - this keeps the cord away from the vehicle and minimizes the risk of scratching the paint while buffing.

With the buffer still OFF, smear the buffer around on the surface of the vehicle a little bit. This will distribute the product evenly across the buffing pad, and will further minimize splatter when you start the machine.

Start with little-to-no pressure on the machine, and turn the machine ON. Let the weight of the machine do the work for you, and be sure to keep the buffer FLAT against the surface of the vehicle. When you angle the buffer, you run the risk of three things: more heat, the backing plate scraping your paint, and product splatter.

Also, don't let the buffer sit in a single spot for too long; always try to keep it moving. When finished with a section, shut the buffer off before lifting it away from the vehicle's surface. This will minimize product splatter.

Below is a diagram of the "first pass" that I like to make while buffing: (Picture #9)

I use overlapping strokes, and it usually takes me 30-45 seconds to complete this first pass. Once the first pass is completed, use a little pressure on the machine (like 2-3 lbs extra) and move on to the second pass, which looks like this: (Picture #10)

Keep pressure the same, and move on to the third and fourth passes: (Pictures #11 and #12)

What you should see now, is a completely covered panel, a result of all of these passes combined: (Picture #13)

Keep repeating those passes (1-4) using progressive pressure. You want to keep working the product into the panel until you have seen it go through these phases:

1) Wet/application
2) Wet/pre-buffing
3) Flashing (not really hazed, not really wet)
4) Hazed (mostly dry)
5) Dry (turns powdery while buffing over it)

Once you hit phase 5, you can stop and buff off the remaining residue by hand. When buffing residue, always use a straight-line, back-and-forth motion. You don't want to introduce new swirls!

Typically, it should take about 3-4 minutes to go through those 5 phases. Depending on the types of swirls you're dealing with, you can increase speed and pressure as necessary. Just remember that more speed + more pressure = more aggressive, so be careful around body ridges and raised surfaces. If it's taking you more than 3-4 minutes, you're using too much product.

Remember, more product doesn't equal better results, it just means more wasted product and more time behind the buffer.

Once you're done with that small section, determine if you've accomplished what you're trying to fix before moving on to the next section (so, in our example, if we were doing the hood, I'd move on to the next area of the hood). As with everything in detailing, work "top to bottom" when buffing your car. Start with the roof, do the hood, the decklid, the doors, the fenders and finally the rockers and bumpers.

If you're happy with the initial results, continue buffing the rest of the vehicle (as noted above). If not, you might need to try a slightly more aggressive product. Here's a little guide to help pick the right product and pad for the job:

WOOL PAD + DACP or FI-II
USE CAUTIOUSLY. This is the most aggressive combination you can use with the PC. Cutting action will be strong and fast. Only for use with removing the heaviest swirls. Speed should be around 4.5 - 5.0 with light to moderate pressure. Must be followed up with a less aggressive product/pad combo.

WOOL PAD + SMR
USE CAUTIOUSLY. Not as aggressive as above, but can still cause trouble. For use with moderate swirl removal. Same speed, pressure and follow-up as above.

YELLOW PAD + DACP or FI-II
Great for cutting through most swirls. Safe and effective. Use speed 4.0 - 5.0 with moderate pressure. Should be followed up with SMR and yellow pad for best results. Be sure to spend a lot of time on each section when applying - really work it in for best results.

YELLOW PAD + SMR
Very safe way to remove swirls from vehicles. Yellow pad makes the SMR just a little more effective, and results are usually quite spectacular. This is a good starting point for people who have a swirled vehicle. Only go more aggressive if necessary (ie: DACP/FI-II or wool). Speed range: 4.0 - 5.5, moderate to heavy pressure, taking your time to really work it in. Follow-up with a glaze or polish.

WHITE PAD + SMR
White pad will minimize the effects of SMR. Fairly mild swirl removal action, generally not used by many folks unless they're trying to remove very faint spiderweb-style swirl marks. Safe at any almost speed and pressure. Follow-up with glaze.

WHITE PAD + DACP or FI-II
Mimics the application of DACP or FI-II by hand. Keep speeds around 4 for best results, using moderate pressure. This isn't a combination that I'd normally use, as the white pad is just a little too soft to make good use of the DACP or FI-II.

WHITE PAD + GLAZE
A great combination is the White pad and P21S Gloss Enhancing Paint Cleanser (GEPC). If using a glaze with the white pad, it's best to keep speeds between 3.5 and 4.5, with moderate to light pressure. Really pays to work the glaze in; the longer you spend with it, the better the results will be.

GREY/BLACK PAD + WAX or GLAZE
OK for use with glaze, but white pads seem to work slightly better. When using the grey/black pad to apply wax, go light on the wax and set the speed to around 3.5 - 4.0 (MAX). Use very light pressure (mostly the weight of the machine), and take your time. You can use paste wax with the pad (use a putty knife to apply the wax like you'd butter a piece of bread), but liquid wax seems to work better. Remember, less wax = better. From my experience, the PC/black/grey pad combo isn't suitable for Zaino application; I like working Zaino by hand much better.

One final note about pad combinations: DON'T SHARE THE SAME PAD WITH DIFFERENT PRODUCTS until you've washed the pad. In other words, don't use the same Yellow pad to apply DACP and SMR. The results won't be anywhere near what you expected them to be.

FINGER PADS from CMA
I've tried these pads and really like them. They are slightly more aggressive than their contoured brothers, and the pads make more use of the same amount of product (in other words, use much less product than normal). I don't like their larger size; it makes the PC really vibrate, and it's slightly harder to control. Here's a picture of the pads that I'm talking about: (Picture #14)

CARING FOR PADS AND PC
The PC itself is basically maintenance free. You shouldn't need to do much with it other than keep it clean and keep it stored in a clean, dry place. I have friends who keep their PC's in those Rubbermaid containers or nylon duffel bags. I happen to have a Porter Cable case for mine, which seems to work pretty well.

Cleaning the pads is fairly straightforward. Get yourself a shallow wash bin (like you'd set in a sink for washing dishes) and some laundry detergent (I like to use Dreft or Woolite). Mix up a soapy water mix, using warm water (not hot). Soak the pads in the soapy solution for about 5-10 minutes. Use your hands to knead the pads and to "squeeze" as much compound/wax out of the pads as possible. Rinse them with cool water and repeat the wash as necessary. When done, wring the pads, or roll them like you'd roll a tortilla shell, using firm pressure to work as much water out of the pad as possible. Allow them to air dry (no heated dryers).

MISCELLANEOUS TIPS/TRICKS/TIDBITS
Like many detailing ventures, you learn little tricks as you spend more time with your vehicle and tools/products. Here's a few things that might be of interest.

Using water as a "primer". A common myth is that using water to dampen a pad makes the product more "gentle". FALSE - it makes it more aggressive. The moisture interferes with the "buffers" in the compound. I use water in a spray bottle with SMR when I need just a little more "bite" than plain-old SMR.

Using a PC makes the work easier...Yes, and No. It does take some of the manual labor out of the process, but it's not as simple as "wipe on, wipe off". The PC works best when given a chance to really work - be sure to always work your products in completely for best results.

Practice...One of the best things you can do is buy yourself a set of $20 sawhorses from Lowes, and a $50 decklid from the local salvage yard. Practice on that panel with your PC - go crazy on it. Learn how each product and pad reacts to different situations, worry free. This may be the best $100 you'll ever spend.

Use Rapid Strokes...when you have a stubborn swirl area; rather than use the prescribed overlapping motions that I outlined earlier, use fast back-and-forth motions with moderate pressure over the area. This is a tip that Bret showed me a while ago, and it works well. I don't prefer this technique for the whole car, but it works well on those "trouble" areas.

Finish with corresponding strokes; hard to describe, but let's try. If you're working the hood, finish with strokes that mimic the airflow across the vehicle - work "bumper to bumper" on your last few passes. If you're working on a door, finish with "roof-to-ground" strokes on the last few passes.

Have plenty of pads available...Do not mix products on the same pad unless you've washed and dried the pad first. In other words, don't try to save a few bucks by only buying 1 yellow and 1 white pad if you know that you're going to need more than one of each. At the very minimum, order two of each pad - you'll thank me later.

Well, I think that about does it. Long story short, here's what you'll need to get started:

PC7336 (6" Counterweight, 6" backing plate)
PC 18001 Backing plate (or the backing plate from CMA (P/N VBP-6))
Yellow Foam Pads from CMA
White Foam Pads from CMA

Good luck! You'll enjoy the PC process; practice, patience and proper products are the key to success.


[Modified by George Cooper, 9:43 AM 3/11/2003]

 

Whoa! I knew someone would come thorugh with far more information than I was lookign for. Thanks a ton for the process. This is really excellent! :thumbs:

[IMG][/IMG]

 

Holy Crap, THANKS GEORGE.
No flame to any of you other guys who know this info.
But the article was great

I've been thinking about it for a while this thread is just what I needed.


Thanks Again

 

Glad to be of help. The only thing not explicitly covered there that matters is the pad you want. It is from Lake Country Manufacturing and is purchased from Classic Motoring Accessories:

Standard, 6.5 inch #46-570VC $9.95
Variable Contact Foam
Pads: 6.5 inch Yellow
Compounding Pad

This actually makes a big difference, since this pad in particular + the Porter Cable + the 3M swirl mark remover is totally safe when you do what he says and works really well.


[Modified by George Cooper, 5:57 PM 3/12/2003]

 

:eek: Great bit of info there, George. Thanks for sharing! :cheers: to you.