Waynestowels

I guess I should have went into more detail on my application techniques...,
I use a syringe so I can get an exact amount.
I have sports cars, so they are not SUV's.

With Zaino, the "trick" is applying VERY lightly.
I have a "contest with myself" to see how little I can apply and still get full coverage and it has come to 1/4oz per car, including wheels

I sure do not want to start a debate on products..., I am just posting my personal experiences, In my hot, humid climate, under the conditions my cars are exposed to.

I do realize some live in the north and the car is garaged and the weather is warm to cold, while others are in the south with sweltering heat, car in the open weather and driven everyday...,

As I always say-
Your milage may vary..., however I felt it only fair to post my milage from both products..., after all, that is what the discussion is about

Cheers!!

Z Factor

Does the winner buy the loser a beer afterwards?

I know Zaino is suppose to go on thin, but most people, including myself, are not going to go through such extremes like using a syringe to apply it by the drop.

Anyway, I do agree that longevity is important, and one of the main reasons for using a synthetic like Zaino. Lets face it, a quality wax will give a car a deeper luster than Zaino, even though it can't match it's mirror like reflectiveness. The problem with waxes however, is they don't last (especially in hot climates like yours or mine). I don't know enough about NXT's longevity, but I still maintain that to do an accurate cost comparison, you must compare the same number of applications within a given time. I don't suggest adding a cost to Zaino by having to wait for it in the mail (i.e. time is money), but the S&H cost must also be included to make it a fair comparison.

Beer:30

Ok, so I compare 2 types of house paints. One lasts 20 years one lasts 2 years but you say I need to figure reapplying the 20 year paint every 2 years to make the price comparison valid. I think not.

Z Factor

With your scenario I agree that you cannot say that a 20 year paint needs to be applied every two years, regardless of the cost, assuming no astronomical price differences.

However, just because a paint CAN last 20 years in some conditions, it will not last that long in all conditions. Furthermore, it might still be sticking to the walls after 20 years, but it doesn't mean that it will look as good as it would having received a recent coat. Lastly, for the purposes of this comparative analogy, the longevity of Zaino vs. NXT (while not definitively determined yet), does not have such a wide difference as your 20 years vs. 2 years paint analogy, even though I get your point.



PS
As I've said many times before, I have nothing against Zaino, and think they make a great product. However, I am not part of their cult that blindly ignores any potential shortcomings, and rips any and all competitors because of a myopic automaton like conditioning. I therefore believe that it's main shortcomings are;

1) Inconvenience if you want the product the same day
2) It's cost compared to similar products(even if they are not quite as good)
3) The inability to buy it with a credit card
4) The inconvenience of having to mix products instead of pour and apply (a big deterrent for some people)
5) And this one is very subjective- Does not provide a deep, rich luster, but instead produces a mirror like reflection(probably the best in the industry) which some people love. I like it to, but cannot deny that a quality wax gives a look that some like better.

In short, if Zaino would address problems 1-4, they would have many more customers. Number 5 they should leave alone because that look has a huge fan base, and they do it the best compared to similar products.

TheDarkKnight

Yup, it is not an accurate cost comparison to force all products to the same time table regardless of their actual longevity. Just like a 400 treadwear tire will last longer under the same conditions as a 200 does not mean you figure the per mile costs using the 200 treadwear's mileage.

TheDarkKnight

For me, one ounce lasts for three coats on the vette. That's 1/3rd ounce.

The ZFX while cool is not needed,. One can use just the Z2 and or Z5 if concerned about cost. I've done a few coats where I just apply one, let it "cook" overnight and apply another one later.

At 1/3 oz/coat that is 24 applications/bottle at 12.95/bottle for a per-application cost of 53 cents/application (plus S/H). Shipping can go from nothing to 8.95 so it varies. Depending on where you are, NXT purchased locally will have to add sales tax whereas most Internet purchases of Zaino will not. Plus you have to go get it. FOr many tht can mean a 15-20 mile round trip. Sure you can pick it up while picking up other things and amortize the handling cost, but this is also true of Zaino so they basically wash.

Raw pricing on both shows that an application of Z-2 is close to 2X the per-ounce cost of NXT. Yet, with 2-4 coats/oz of Z-2 the per coat cost is quite small. Whereas NXT requires more the cost gap reverses quickly. If it took one ounce of NXT to cover the car your NXT per coat cost is ~83 cents. With Zaino it ranges from 2-4 coats/ounce for a range of 40 to 80 cents/use. Reports (limited) that I have seen so far for NXT show 1.5-2 ounces per coat. At those rates you are talking a per-coat cost of 83-1.67 per coat.

I submit that if you can squeeze NXT to 1oz/coat, you can get a minimum of 3 coats/ounce out of Zaino; which isn't difficult to do. That would give you a comparison of:
NXT: 83 cents/coat
Z2: 54 cents/coat.

29 cents per coat in Z2's favor. So even on a one to one as you desire, Z2 still comes out ahead. When actual durability is taken into account, the gap widens considerably. As far as durability, 3 months is half of the manufacturer claims for Zaino. I have not seen any claims of durability duration for Meguiars NXT from Meguiars.

Per manufacturer duration recommendations, Z2 will cost you less than a couple bucks per year.

Z Factor

I appreciate your efforts in breaking down the costs.

However, it seems that you are trying to paint a best case scenario such as;

S&H(nothing? to $9)- I'm not sure what you mean by nothing, but if Zaino has free S&H specials, I've never heard of them

Travel time to pick up the NXT(10-20 miles RT)- I don't know too many people who live 10- to 20 miles RT from their nearest autoparts store or a Kmart. My autoparts store is 5 blocks away, but maybe you mean people that live in Alaska?

No need to use ZFX- Most will not want to "cook" it like you do, and want to apply and remove it quickly.

As to the limited amount you and a few others seem to use, most are not going to apply it so sparingly via a syringe.

Also, the use of Z5 (which some people need to get the best results) is not calculated, nor is the gloss enhancer.

All in all, you bring up some good points about sales tax, and Zaino's longevity (even though NXT hasn't been thoroughly tested by independent labs to determine how long it will actually last).






[Modified by Z Factor, 10:12 AM 6/23/2004]

agentf1

If you are worrying about how much it cost to Zaino vs NXT you shouldn't even own a corvette or any nice car for that matter. Go buy a used honda and don't worry about waxing the paint or gas prices. Even if zaino did cost more to use with shipping or whatever which I doubt it does it is worth it for the looks alone, factor in the durability it is a freakin steal. If shipping is a big deal buy in bulk. I usually buy atleast 3 bottles of wash, Z6 and whatever else I need when I order anyway.

TheDarkKnight

Shipping can be zero due to several factors. You can get Zaino at more than the Zaino store. Ecklers has it, and for some people there are local distributors (none here tho ). For some places, shipping is on a dollar amount basis. For example, order 100-200 bucks of stuff and shipping is XX. If you are already in that category, adding a couple bottles of Zaino incur no additional shipping costs. Just some of the wyas Zaino can have zero shiping costs. Is it best case? Sure, but that's why I gave a range. It is possible, and a zero is a valid member of that set.

You seem tobe confused on Zaino application. The ZFX allows you to put more coats on in a 24 hour period (3) as opposed to "raw" Z2 (1). The drying time in my experience is pretty much identical. I apply, wipe off in 20 minutes, and am done --with or w/o ZFX. Sometimes I'll leave it on while I do other things and get back to it whenever it is convenient. If you only apply one coat of NXT in a setting, how are you less interested in applying Z2 in a single coat shot and being done for the day?
You don;t have to live in alaske to need a 10 mile round trip. If the store is 5 miles away, that's a 10 mile RT. Sure I have a Shucks, Napa, and Autozone w/in 5 miles. But they don't carry NXT. The only one I've heard of around here is about 15 miles away. That isn't particular to NXT, either, but it is there.

It doesn't take asyringe to get thin coats. I spritz my applicator w/some water, dab on a dollop of Z2 and go to town. First time I used it I got a bit over 2 coats. If you can shrink an NXT coat to 1 ounce, you'd have no problems getting 3 out of a Z2 ounce. My wife, who had never polished/waxed her Suburban or used Zaino got nearly a coat and a half on a Suburban out of an ounce. It isn't hard.

If you want to count *additional* enhancements, you MST do so for NXT. There is an NXT spray and an NXT gloss enhancer. Count them too if you want to oucnt Z5 and/or Z6 (or is it Z7?). Indeed, Meguiars says you are *supposed* to do a 3-step process above and beyond washing the car. Cleaners, polish, and wax. If you want to count Z5 (which is NOT needed, Z2 is for clear coat, Z5 for non-clear coat, IIRC, but helps hide swirlmarks), then you need to add in to NXT the other two steps of cleaner wax and polish. Otherwise, it'd give a biased and patently inaccurate comparison.

So if we compare the manufacturer reccomendations:
Zaino
=====
Z7 wash
Z2 + ZFX
Z6 gloss enhancer

Meguiars NXT
===========
Meguiars washing soap (would have to look in the garage to get the name -- I have a whole shelf of their stuff mostly their pro line).
Meguiars Step one cleaning wax
Meguiars Step Two polish
NXT
gloss enhancer.

Look a lot alike to me, though Meguiars has an extra step. You could add an additional coat if using ZFX if it makes you feel better to keep the coats of stuff level the same.

For swirl marks:
Zaino: Z5
Meguiars: One of various scratch/SMR products

Again, fairly identical other than costs. Zaino comes out ahead in that they don't have a 3-step process in addition to washing. I've probably got receipts for all my Meguiars stuff here I could determine the full cost by estimating how much a coat takes by memory (I did the full wash + 3 step + enhancer for Meguiars prior to trying Zaino and prior to NXT being available).

But I suspect given the durability issues and the multi-product with additional steps part of Meguiars, that Zaino still comes out ahead handily. It would be nice to have durability studies on NXT though, as well as layering limits and effects. Even better would be a Meguiars official statement about NXT durability. Sal at Zaino says 6 months. I'd like to hear Meguiars say how long one should do it for NXT. Then we could compare manufacturer recommendations.

staycer

I found this testimonial after ordering more Zaino products:
the whole cute story with pics is at: http://www.zainostore.com/Merchant2/...e=TESTIMONIALS

"As I left work and went to my car I noticed something sitting near the rear quarter panel. As I walked closer to my car I saw it was a goose and it was acting strangely. I wasn't sure if it was sick or injured so I moved in for a closer look.
Upon closer inspection I saw that the goose was just sitting there snuggling with the reflection in the quarter panel. He/she was in love. As I went to get in my car the goose was alarmed, stood up and started to peck at the reflection quarter panel.
I tried to get the goose away from my car but it refused to leave and just hissed at me and kept pecking the car. So I got in and drove away leaving the poor goose with a broken heart.
The amazing part about this story is that my car had not been washed in about a month and had not been Zainoed since last year. The shine is incredible and the durability is even more incredible."

Anyway, thought it was a cute story. I'm a Zaino Girl....

TheDarkKnight

Yeah I like that one, Stayie. Though it gave me pause since I where work has a large pond and *lots* of geese that live there year round.

staycer

Nice Ride...

SDVette

I'm a diehard Zaino guy, but for Fathers day, I wanted to shine my dad's black BMW-Z3 (cut him a little slack, he's also got a '61 Vette!).

Wanting to keep an open mind and see how NXT really compared on black - I purchased the NXT liquid and renew spray.

Did the dawn wash, clay, and applied the NXT. He has a lot of clear coat scratches on it - mainly from crappy towels (I try to tell him!)

Anyway, my experience is that while the car looked pretty good afterwards, the NXT was:

- Comperable to Zaino in application effort
- Was somewhat more difficult to remove (hazing, although black is probably the reason)
- Did NOT perform any miracles on the clearcoat swirls present
- Felt less slick than Zaino when done

Take it for what it's worth.. Now I can say I've tried it too.. But it's Zaino for my Vette!

[Sorry - edited for brain gaps!] Too many TLA's (three leter acronyms!)


[Modified by SDVette, 4:55 PM 6/28/2004]

TheDarkKnight

Ummmmm, errrr uhhhhh I'm a bit confused. You describe yourself as a diehard Zaino guy, but say you used ZFX ... without saying what you added it to. ZFX is added to Z5 or Z2, not used on it's own (it is an accellerant). If you only used ZFX ... uhh yeah that isn't the way to do it. Try adding about 3 drops to an ounce of Z5 and apply that.

TheDarkKnight

Thanks, looking pretty good yourself.

SDVette

Sorry! Edited my initial post.. Thanks

tkemz

If you use NXT right you will find that it is easier to apply, shines better, and comes off very easy.

Follow these directions when you do your next comparison and I think you will be more than satisfied.

1. First wash your car
2. If you have contaminates CLAY
3. If you have light swirl marks use a cleaner
4. Then use a polish "not a wax" this will give you a wet, deep look.
5. Then apply NXT using a thin even coat.
6. Let dry at least 15 min.
7. Take off.

End result you will never go back to Zaino again. The shine and protection will last for months (but who could go that long without waxing there Vett ) with only regular washings.

PS: using a random orbital buffer makes things really easy

TheDarkKnight

[QUOTE The shine and protection will last for months (but who could go that long without waxing there Vett ) with only regular washings.[/QUOTE]

Me. All winter, daily driven. :p: Too damned cold to apply it in the winter here.