Paul_Z06

Tough nut to crack, huh?

I said I don't mind the cap for safety's sake but I'll play devil's advocate for a minute.

I built my car SPECIFICALLY to be competitive in the Pro 8. I've spent a large sum of money between the motor and chassis work. There are guys who are planning to do work over the winter and spend similar amounts of cash to get into 8s and 7s. Now, is it fair to me and those guys who have spent or are about to spend their hard-earned money to become more competitive to now be forced to regress? I don't think so. So, all of a sudden, you have 7 second cars sandbagging by a second? Why don't I just put a throttle stop in my car. You think THAT will be exciting to watch? And I'll probably kick your *** every time.

We're not professionals but would this ever fly in NHRA programs? Imagine NHRA saying "John Force, you can't go mid-4s because your competitior doesn't have the budget for r&d and improvements so you'll have to settle for 6s." That's proposterous.

I agree about the safety. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. If e-town doesn't prep the track on a Saturday to accomodate 8 or 7 seconds cars, then the cap should go in. I'll be damned if I get killed out there because I (or my opponent) lost control because of poor track prep.

HOWEVER, to say that the race is "not fair" because one guy can spend 60 large and another can't is b.s. Sorry, but if you can't run with the big dogs then stay on the porch. Tell me you're putting a cap on for safety's sake and I'm perfectly fine with it. Tell me that you're putting the cap on because someone can't afford a quicker car and I'll find another program to run in.

ralph

This is typical of heads up racing. A lot of people like to criticize bracket racing as the faster car doesn't have an advantage and it's not always first to the stripe wins. They perfer heads up racing....but now you're looking at the flip side....it becomes wallet racing. The people who are able & willing to dump the most money into their rigs usually win. So it seems we've reached the point where the Q8 racers are questioning the investment and the safety issues. Now a suggeston for a cap and or maybe multiple caps. If such caps are instituted, this becomes index racing and no longer heads up. And index racing starts to look a lot like bracket racing when/if a majority of the cars can run the index. No longer is it first to the stripe wins. This is not criticizm, it's just the normal evolution of heads up racing as things escalate beyond what most consider reasonable $. We've seen it happen many times.

Maybe we've hit the point where the Q8 racers have to decide if they want to take it to the next level or make it an index class.

I for one would like to see it remain "run what ya brung", but i aint the one who has to shell out the $ to be competitive.

Good luck whatever you guys decide.

onefast99

[QUOTE=Paul_Z06]Tough nut to crack, huh?



We're not professionals but would this ever fly in NHRA programs? Imagine NHRA saying "John Force, you can't go mid-4s because your competitior doesn't have the budget for r&d and improvements so you'll have to settle for 6s." That's proposterous.


This occurs each and every day at the NHRA's and the IHRA events. The sponsorship ceases and the team is left with little to work with. The bike class has been hit the hardest when the sponsors pull out. very rarely do you see an underdog or "limited funds" participant win in the semi or final round. This series is no different, remember Mike(stealth) invited Mike M to the pro 8 and everything changed from that point. You came into the picture and reeled off a 8.50 and now leo has a high 7's car. The numbers will continue to get faster and faster until something happens that causes the decision makers to implement rules that will ensure the safety of all involved.

Special K

[QUOTE=onefast99]As you know Brian there are limits imposed all the time by the NHRA to try and slow the big boys down and to somewhat level the playing field.

I would like to see an index setup with a cap for the fastest cars. The day is coming when someone is going to be injured or killed. Track prep is not the same for our events and when they host the nationals.

With an index Stealth and John Carter and guys like them can remain competitive and still drive em on the street.

Whether you run 12 sec or 8 sec we gotta be safe out there. It's getting to the point where it's not safe.

tekhombre

I appreciate your input onefast99 and you are right because I remember the posts on the forum. As I said before, it was when we were sponsoring the event that we approached John and others running the event about doing different classes and the track would be safe for the 12, 11, 10 and even 9 second cars that cant compete now on Saturdays.

It would be great to see ECS's 9.30 C5 go up against Mike's 9.4 C5 or a 10s H/C car go against another H/C car, etc.

Julio

mackeyred96

WOW, this is like a class Corvettte Challenge history.

I know I nolonger have any OFFICAL say in the series (how's that Mike but I believe all you have suggest is do-able just show the NAPPS there is enough car count/interest to make a class and come up with a sponsor for EVERTHING you want.

Guys sponsorship money talks, bottom line.

Paul_Z06

Well, I can see this is going to be an interesting conversation when the people in charge sit down to put the rules together for next year.

On the one hand, capping the class would add a safety measure and level the field a LITTLE bit. I say a little bit because out of the quickest cars in this season's Pro 8 field, only 3 have seen 8.50 or better and Paul Major knocking on the door. Let's be realistic, if you're running a mid or low 9 second car, it's still no contest against cars that consistently run mid-8s. Take a look at the Jesel Ultra Quick 8. That's an index class and, to be competitve, you've gotta be within a tenth of the index. To win in a 9 second car, your opponent would have to totally fall asleep at the tree or break. Or redlight So, realistically, you're only leveling the field for 3 or 4 cars.

On the other hand, capping the class may turn some competitors off. Why did I spend so much money to build a 7 second car and now I can't run it to its full potential? I'll go find another program to run.

Seems like different classes were discussed and voted against. In theory, I think having 2 or 3 classes would make most sense. In reality, we can't get *8* cars for one class half the time so where will 16 or 24 cars come from? It'll be impssible to field 2 or 3 index classes.

I'm not saying it's bad, but it looks like the Pro 8 may be totally moving away from what it originated as - 8 (or 4) fastest Corvettes in a particular day's Corvette Challenge no matter what.

I'm just trying to bring different things to light and open it up for more in-depth discussion.

mackeyred96

I'd be pissed too, but you'll always find someone who wants to go faster, that's just the way it is.

Special K

Paul, you don't need 16 or 24 cars. Everyone is running in their index. If only one car is in the 9.50 index he would run against a car in the next index, say a 9.00 index, bracket style.

ralph

This might have been suggested already, but how about a simple change in the laddering system? 1v2, 3v4......etc. You'd have a lot more close races and all the fast cars get to play. The #8 car probably still doesn't have a realistic chance of winning the event, but he/she could go a couple of rounds and over a full season could be in contention for a pts championship. Qualifying/seeding would become a lot more important too. Just something to think about.

Paul_Z06

Pro 8 is not or ever should be a bracket format. That's why we have the points race. No way would I ever enter the Pro 8 again if it became a bracket race for fast cars.

onefast99

That would be nice if the guys running the 9's could go against one another. I just don't feel safe at etown with the track prep and street tire cars ripping up the rubber. I would be in favor of your earlier suggestion to divide it up. Wouldn't Edgar be able to do this on a "slower" challenge day towards the end?

onefast99

I'm curious if someone runs a 7.70 why the heck would they want to run in the challenge? What does someone gain running against cars in the mid 9's or high 8's with a 7 second car?

STEALTH 99 C5

That would help create more exciting races , instead of # 1 vs # 8 , and the top qualifier sandbagging it down the track because the #8 car is no threat .

Paul_Z06

I'd run it because it's another win, more experience, payout, and most importantly exposure for their car. Why do you think I'm hauling *** 19 hrs each way to race in the V10 Nationals? Exposure. Hopefully an 8 cylinder 346 cid Vette will spank some Viper *** and get a little press coverage. You know this as well as I do. A horse that runs the right races and wins is a helluva lot more valueable than one that doesn't, right? You don't think I could sell my car for more money now than in the beginning of the season? I won some races, proven that the car is consistent and reliable, set some records and it's beginning to receive recognition. Pro Torque will be using my car in some of their advertising. John Meany from Big Stuff has asked me for info and pics of my car as well. That's why my car has over 130 passes this year. I want to be out there every chance I get.

onefast99

your car I agree with, the more exposure the more someone may want to put their product with you. The guy that runs the 7's is the guy I am talking about. Why would you run a group of cars that have at best an 8.50 potential? What money 200 bucks! That covers lunch and fuel let alone a breakdown. The reason I say this is because that 7 second car has everyone re-thinking how can we accomodate that vehicle while we still maintain a high level of safety for all the other pro 8 drivers. This is the root of the problem and needs to be discussed over the winter or we will have one 7 second car taking all the races and eventually not even you will line up against him!!!

RpeterK

The Etown Q-8 is anything but an index class. We have a 7.50 cap yes but the cars can't really get to it. There are rules in place that restrict the performance capablilties of the cars to prevent them from running below the 7.50 mark. A big block nitrous car for instance is only allowed a single fogger kit with a 32 nitrous jet and 1 ten pound bottle. Yes there is a cap and it is there primarily because of sfi rules that prohibit cars exceeding 3200lbs from running faster than 7.5 and should anyone find a way to go fast enough they will be DQ'd.
The idea of a cap or some really good rules should have been put in place a while ago. The way that the rules or lack of rules are written it leaves the class wide open for just about anything to show up. Some cars such as Alan's are still being built within the "spirit" of the challenge despite it's possible performance.

Unfortunately a heads up class is what so many want until they realize the dedication of time and $$$$ it takes. There are always guys that will **** and moan about rules and that there are to many but it is really the only way to keep some kind of control of things. The probelm I see is that there are so many different types of combinations that it would be really difficult to come up with a set that would work accross the board.

The other thing is that you need to run within at least a tenth of the field if you plan on winning even less than that unless you are really lucky

Paul_Z06

Umm..... Perhaps the class didn't start out that way but because of the 7.5 cap it pretty much is an index class. Run quicker than 7.50 and you're DQ; sounds like an index to me. Off the top of my head I recall Bob Finkelstein ripping off sub-7.50 passes. Anyway, this discussion isn't about the UQ8.

We're in agreement on being witin a tenth of the index to be competitive as I also stated that in my previous post. Anything outside of that is gonna be tough.

Problem we have in this class, I think, is that it evolved too quickly from 10 second cars to low 8 second cars. And I don't think anyone (including e-town) realized it until it was too late. Rules will most likely have to be changed but if they're too restrictive, the Pro 8 will suck. Plain and simple. This program was supposed to showcase the quickest Vettes participating in the challenge. If a car meets the rules and can rip off 7 second passes then why shouldn't it be allowed to participate? I don't think it's unfair that someone may be working with a larger budget. Life isn't fair

DOUG @ ECS

This is a tough call, and will definatly couse some debate for sure.
Of course safty is always an issue, but holding traction on a Saturday event is a challange for the chassis builders as well. I'm sure Leo will handle it fine, and I like to think our car will hold it's own.
I personally like the idea of run what you brung as long as it meets requirements, and has a factory power plant. Although I also think a class is necessary for the average guy with a damn fast street car to compete in heads up as well. Since that persons car is probibly to fast to bracket and to slow to compete in the pro 8. Of course thats a whole other situation that would have to be managed, and someone would have to step up to assume those responsibilities since Edgar and the others have their hands full as it is.

Lets face it, this is a rich mans sport so I dont see a reason change rules for that, if you cant stand the heat stay out of the kitchen. (or get a side job )

In my opinion the PRO 8 was for the tuners to show how fast they can bring a C5 too. That should not change.

In summery I definatly see both sides of the coin and respect both, but my childish racer side just wants to go faster and faster. Either way I will not complain and just do what it takes to be competitive.

jpee

I realize I'm not a Quick 8 but when you think about it.. NHRA has rules to limit Top Fuel..

All TF cars now must run with a rev limiter.. & 3.20 gears, & a spec tire.. so that in theory will limit the Top Speed they can achieve..

And I'll bet the house if one of then runs 350 mph NHRA will slow them down with more rules..