OK, yesterday's Pro 10.0 program rocked! Nice turnout and close racing. Hats off to all drivers!

Now, for the "controversial" part I observed, on two occasions, cars sitting on the two step for an extended period of time while their opponents were still deep staging. Sitting on the trans brake for that long isn't exactly good for your trans You're beating the crap out of your setup. I really don't know of any other programs that allow deep staging on a pro tree. The index classes at Atco specifically prohibit deep staging and they run "blue light" - you put out the top bulb while staging and you automatically red-light.

In my opinion, as a spectator not a racer, deep staging should be prohibited in both Pro classes. The only somewhat fair alternative is to require the car staging deep to stage completely before his opponent rolls into stage beam. What also should be a requirement is writing "DEEP" on BOTH side windows to let your opponent know your intentions. Lettering on a curved back window isn't always as visible as the side windows.

Here's one example of what I observed yesterday. In the final race of the first session Wayne lit the top bulb while Chris was still staging and then proceeded to slowly bump in deep. Meanwhile Wayne was sitting on the trans brake not doing a whole lot of justice to his tranny. The starter should have activated the tree as soon as both top bulbs were lit instead of burning Wayne down. If Chris staged deep before Wayne lit the top bulb then there'd be no problem, in my opinion.

And another observation. Sportsman ladder in a "PRO" class? This didn't make sense to me from the beginning. What's the difference between running a Pro ladder in Pro 8 and sportsman ladder in Pro 10.0? They're both index classes and should be uniform on qualifying procedures.

 

Blah...Blah...Blah

Buy a car!

 

Words of wisdom from a real racer.

 

I agree with you Paul.. but it also the other team or driver to look and see if his opponent has deep stage on his window.......it is also common courtesy for the deep stager to light the top bulb first when deep staging is his intenions .... I think lessons learned... for all....... or I hope?

Wayne Keegan...new sheriff in town......just partial but......2007 rookie of the year?...lol

 

Agreed. Rules are rules but I think some modifications are in order.

Wayne cut a .004 on his first qualifier. Not bad for a rookie He ain't gonna be no sheriff if I buy his car

 

There isn`t any cutting, it`s all guess work. The driver with the .004 time was just that far from red lighting and losing. Not that he was a good driver, hell he almost lost by guessing. This blink, blink, go is a joke. It`s guess work not skill for a reaction to a light. If they would, but they wont, is for all reference to the lights go completely out after stage. Then a random from 1 to 4 seconds later a green, you would see many so called hot shot drivers either sitting there late on the green or a whole bunch of them red lighting. That would definately make the drivers reaction skill a part of drag racing again. Scrap that yellow and stab and put it back into the drivers skill and ability, not how good of a job he has just guessed.

 

Good points Paul and I will share my view

Deep staging is allowed in this class and should continue to be allowed as very few of these cars are Pro Tree prepped.

That said, deep staging is a courtesy and it plays into both drivers responsibility. The deep stager should tell his opponent and write it on his car if his intention is to deep stage. I can also say that a driver can accidentally deep stage...I have. I don't know if a driver did it intentionally but I can tell you that autostart is on so when all four stage lights are on, drivers are on an the clock. If a person wants to deep stage and does not put it on their car or ask the other driver to let him light two before they light one, he is hurting himself.

In a perfect world, noone would roll in deep by accident and everyone would communicate their intention.

Sportsman ladder in a Pro class? It is an index class though we call it Pro because it is on Pro tree. Why? The attempt is/was to keep cars closer in ET for closer competition. I am not adverse to changing/tweaking this for 2008. Feel free to kick this up when we have our winter meetings for next season.

 

I might partially agree but can tell you there are many things you can do to make your car react quicker to a tree in suspension, tires, tire pressure, launch rpm, horsepower and placement on the stage beams are common ones. I would venture to guess those that do better at the pro tree have done their homework on getting the car cut a light. There might still be a degree of guess but I am sure Keegan was not guessing

 

Well i`m sure he was if he relied on the last yellow. everyone does. And you have it all wrong. It isn`t the car that does the reaction! It`s the driver. You want a faster car then make it go faster. But a slow reaction driver is a looser every time. Put the driver back into the drivers seat. Actually then a slower car could beat a faster car by a driver with better starting line skills. And not guessing skills either.

 

What does "pro tree prepped" mean? Having a trans brake? David Shen, Wayne Keegan, Chris Young, Mike Conway, Alan Eckert, Mark Shaw, Dave Outten, Jerry Land, and you all have trans brakes. I don't know if George Smith has one and Tommy probably doesn't. So, I would say the MAJORITY of the cars are "pro tree prepped." Unless you mean something else.

I didn't notice what the time slips said about Autostart being turned on or off but observing from the line I could have sworn that autostart was off and the starter had complete control over activating the tree. The time interval between all bulbs being lit and tree going green under Autostart is between 3/4 and 1 second and it took Chris (don't think I'm pickin' on ya kid, just using this as an example ) longer than that to roll in deep. Someone should look at their slips to see if they had activated Autostart. There should be no "accidental" deep staging; that's what the blue light is for. Roll in deep and it's automatically considered red light.

As Leo stated above, deep staging is a courtesy and the deep stager should light the top bulb first out of courtesy to the other driver and then roll in deep before the tree comes down. Starter holding up the tree as the other guy is getting his head rattled on the two step and tearing up his trans is stupid. I dunno, perhaps you should attach staging etiquette to the rules as not everyone may be familiar with what to do? I got burned down in the same manner last year and I would have like to rip the guy's head off after the fact. Nothing like heating the crap out of a Freddy Brown Powerglide that cost an arm and a leg.

 

So, according to you, the same driver should have the exactly same reaction time regardless of what car he's in, correct? Regardless of car's suspension, front/rear/all wheel drive, tire size, gearing, etc? Very interesting theory. You should call Frank Hawley on Monday and tell him that his entire program is crap and he no longer needs to address "car reaction" in his classes. Hell, you should get on the horn with the pro teams and tell the crew chiefs to stop fudging with their cars 'cause it ain't gonna help their drivers' reaction times none.

Pardon the frank approach but this thread is about deep staging on a pro tree not reaction times. Feel free to start another thread and I'll gladly rip........I mean contribute to the discussion.

 

Yeah you may have misunderstood the topic. This is pro tree where the last yellow is not as critical. I would agree there is more guessing or what I call timing in a full tree but guessing at a pro tree is really not likely

 

Paul autostart = on on all my slips

By pro tree prepped I mean some of the stuff I list. For example I would expect my car will react better with a shorter tire which I not am willing to do/try right now.

Class is growing, we will adjust where necessary

 

Paul,, Autostart is the question... I don't mind if someone wants to deep stage just let me know.. Also it would be nice to know if autostart is on or off.. That makes the difference..

Just my .02

Ernie

 

Paul I agree with ya most PRO classes do not honor DEEP STAGING...
And it is a courtesy 100%... Thats why when I deep stage I try to light both bulbs wait till the next guy lights his prestage then I go deep...Also knowing the autostart was on I wanted to get in on time... With the run with Wayne he staged quick and got on the brake.... I wrote DEEP as big as I could on my window,I made 18 passes yesterday with the word deep on my window....Under no circumstance would I ever want to win a race by screwing my opponent over.. I would rather loose then to have someone fry his/her tranny...

 

Paul, my autostart is ON on my slips. Chris & Wayne slip?????
I know for a FACT that Wayne & Dave S. did not know Chris was going DEEP.This is not about Chris going Deep , WE would a least like it 2 be written on the both side windows of the car. Not the back window, so the OTHER driver can clearly see it & dosent melt down.if he does, then it is on him.
CLASS has grown

simple rule clarification is need this season.

 

Happy sunday

 

Your right i would have - after we started you beat me. nice edit
You have a Good Sunday 2

 

Ironcross........most 10.0 cars w/ a transbrake can leave on a .500 protree. If people were guess'n, don't you think we'd see quite a few red lights? I dont think we had any yesterday. (see everything else Paul Z said as well)

Assuming Deep staging is allowed, it's up to both drivers to adjust. Chris had DEEP written in 3 foot letters on his car all day. The pairings were NOT random......so everyone knew who they were running long before the lanes were even called. I can understand that it's probably not visable from the side, but if you didn't see DEEP while standing in the lanes for an hour, were you going to suddenly look for it as you were staging? If someone is complaining that they didn't know Chris was deep staging, shame on them for not knowing. That said, maybe it should be clarified as to where deep should be written and size of lettering. Or maybe it should be banned....since i don't run the class, i'll leave that decision to those that do. However, it should also be noted that you have somewhere between 7-14 seconds to stage after 3 bulbs are lit. I don't think anyone was hung out longer than that, and that would be perfectly legal even if deep staging were not allowed.

Carry on

 

Ralph ,
I saw it on the back of Chris's car.I told Wayne & Dave it was there,after they lost.There is alot of writing on the back of Chris's back window.this is not about Chris or his BADASZ STREET VETTE.He ran 4 events.
Wayne & Dave just assumed it was a NO-NO, Bad on them.
if you write Deep on 72 vettes back window you probably wouldn't see it.
if you go DEEP and you dont have deep written on the car ,that should be a loss . Do we agree on that.


Edgar its an easy fix
all WE ask is to put it on the side windows & We will spread the word at the next 10.oohhh.