Rollout math
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,262
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From: E. Amherst NY
Rollout math
Anybody got a link to a calculator, or a formula I can use to calculate my rollout? I'm quite certain my practice tree has the rollout faster than the car actually is... 
Race Director
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 13,298
Likes: 14
From: Somers NY
You can come very close by doing the following "I Think" Glen correct me if I'm wromg...
If you set your practice tree to .000 roll out put it on a Pro tree... and hit the tree a few times.. I'm around .190 - 197
Now you know "YOUR" reaction is lets say .200 to make the math easy...
Take your car to the track, and ask to run on a Pro Tree.. (make sure its .500 or .400 the same as you set your practice tree to...
(lets say .500) so you know "YOUR RT is .200 and if you go DEEP and have a .050 light you know your cars RT is .350 tree+ your RT.200 RT = .550
.550 - your .200 + .350 for the car... (I think this might work) of course if you stage shallow your cars RT will be a lot longer..
Last time I raced on a .500 Pro Tree I went RED -.008 (Deep Staging)
Glen can you do anything with these #s...
If you set your practice tree to .000 roll out put it on a Pro tree... and hit the tree a few times.. I'm around .190 - 197
Now you know "YOUR" reaction is lets say .200 to make the math easy...
Take your car to the track, and ask to run on a Pro Tree.. (make sure its .500 or .400 the same as you set your practice tree to...
(lets say .500) so you know "YOUR RT is .200 and if you go DEEP and have a .050 light you know your cars RT is .350 tree+ your RT.200 RT = .550
.550 - your .200 + .350 for the car... (I think this might work) of course if you stage shallow your cars RT will be a lot longer..
Last time I raced on a .500 Pro Tree I went RED -.008 (Deep Staging)
Glen can you do anything with these #s...
Last edited by jpee; Sep 5, 2009 at 02:03 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,172
Likes: 86
From: State of Confusion
You can come very close by doing the following "I Think"...
If you set your practice tree to .000 roll out put it on a Pro tree... and hit the tree a few times.. I'm around .190 - 197
Now you know "YOUR" reaction is lets say .200 to make the math easy...
Take your car to the track, and ask to run on a Pro Tree.. (make sure its .500 or .400 the same as you set your practice tree to...
(lets say .500) so you know "YOUR RT is .200 and if you go DEEP and have a .050 light you know your cars RT is .350 tree+ your RT.200 RT = .550
.550 - your .200 + .350 for the car... (I think this might work) of course if you stage shallow your cars RT will be a lot longer..
Last time I raced on a .500 Pro Tree I went RED -.008 (Deep Staging)
If you set your practice tree to .000 roll out put it on a Pro tree... and hit the tree a few times.. I'm around .190 - 197
Now you know "YOUR" reaction is lets say .200 to make the math easy...
Take your car to the track, and ask to run on a Pro Tree.. (make sure its .500 or .400 the same as you set your practice tree to...
(lets say .500) so you know "YOUR RT is .200 and if you go DEEP and have a .050 light you know your cars RT is .350 tree+ your RT.200 RT = .550
.550 - your .200 + .350 for the car... (I think this might work) of course if you stage shallow your cars RT will be a lot longer..
Last time I raced on a .500 Pro Tree I went RED -.008 (Deep Staging)
you have to honestly be capable to know and recognize when you've reacted accurately, and be able to admit when you've either jumped the lights, or snoozed.
Don't enter into this 'expecting' a particular RT at the track when you attempt this, but simply observe what the answers are:
old-timers used to exclaim 'the Krondeks don't lie', when Krondek was the exclusive timing system.
Here is a 'test' you can do yourself, to see how-well you know your own physical RT at home on your practice tree (Forum-member Beach Dude has performed this on me at least once that I can recall), as it's noty-about 'being-quick', as much as it is about BEING CONSISTENT:
have your wife, girlfriend, buddy, etc., take your practice tree, and randomly add or subtract rollout from the tree (even large-amounts of rollout, up to 1 second), then go & cut 3 to 5 lights, recording what your RT are..... after 3-5 runs, see if you are capable of TELLING that person what the rollout in the tree is, without you looking at it yourself.
If you can determine the rollout within .01 either-way, you are pretty consistent yourself, and might be capable of experimenting at the track like JP suggests
Race Director
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 13,298
Likes: 14
From: Somers NY
Glen another thing I do is cover the disply....hit the tree, & try to make guess what my RT was.. was I late (How late) or was I good .005 to .025... or of I went RED... then just move the piece of cardboard and see if I "KNEW" what kind of light I cut!
Funny I do pretty well on the practice tree, but on Fri I was in a gamblers race, and 3rd round I was racing a 10 sec car and dialed hard... 12.22 .... I "Thought" I was average on the tree.. that is until he caught me at the 1000' timer
I knew I was DOA and ran it out to a 12.215 but I had a .096 light to his .017 ... ya ain't gonna win many races with that kind of light
Funny I do pretty well on the practice tree, but on Fri I was in a gamblers race, and 3rd round I was racing a 10 sec car and dialed hard... 12.22 .... I "Thought" I was average on the tree.. that is until he caught me at the 1000' timer
I knew I was DOA and ran it out to a 12.215 but I had a .096 light to his .017 ... ya ain't gonna win many races with that kind of light
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,172
Likes: 86
From: State of Confusion
for our purposes, 1.680 was 'perfect', and 1.679 or worse was Red.
We also tried to quickly 'call' what the light was in the intervening 1.68-seconds ('RED', 'Twenty', 'slept', etc.), before the actual RT would display, and making an accurate decision that promptly is difficult.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 13,298
Likes: 14
From: Somers NY
I have my practice tree set to .320 roll out... & now I'm thinking my car is slower than that (If I stage VERY SHALLOW) ... I know I can and HAVE gone RED on a .500 Pro Tree with DEEP STAGING...
But shallow and a full tree has been busting my balzz I'm going to change the roll out to .350 on the Practice Tree.. and see what that does... AND I need more live seat time as of late, I haven't been racing on a weekly basses, & it shows...
Bottom line I HAVE to figure out if I want to go DEEP...with no roll out or shallow... I don't care about the ET (shoe polish will fix that) & my car can run the # time after time.... "I'm the Problem"
I know I am GOOD on a Pro Tree, so I'm leaning to DEEP Staging, and blocking the top 2 yellow bulbs and treat it like a Pro Tree... But you know blocking the tree don't always work especially at night.. I can still see the reflection in the windshield!
Nest TT I go to I'm going to try DEEP and and treat it as a Pro
Tree if I can concentrate on the "Bottom" bulb!
But shallow and a full tree has been busting my balzz
I'm going to change the roll out to .350 on the Practice Tree.. and see what that does... AND I need more live seat time as of late, I haven't been racing on a weekly basses, & it shows...Bottom line I HAVE to figure out if I want to go DEEP...with no roll out or shallow... I don't care about the ET (shoe polish will fix that) & my car can run the # time after time.... "I'm the Problem"
I know I am GOOD on a Pro Tree, so I'm leaning to DEEP Staging, and blocking the top 2 yellow bulbs and treat it like a Pro Tree... But you know blocking the tree don't always work especially at night.. I can still see the reflection in the windshield!
Nest TT I go to I'm going to try DEEP and and treat it as a Pro
Tree if I can concentrate on the "Bottom" bulb!
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Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,262
Likes: 0
From: E. Amherst NY
It seems like when I'm cutting a .035 on the practice tree, it really translates to like a .12 on the real tree. Obviously, I'm not going to be able to do the same thing round after round. However, it seems foolish to be using the practice tree, if I'm really conditioning myself for a .12 instead of a .02.
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 9
From: Hernando Beach Fl
I always hate to post in a thread like this, partly because I am such a rookie at this, however, I have noticed I am more comfortable in the daylight rather than the dark (naturally when most races are) I believe I am picking up the reflection from the second light versus the 3rd light starting to glow. After several practice sessions, my red lights increase in darker enviroments versus daytime type conditions. Has anybody else experienced this? Common sense tells me that if I am actually seeing the 3rd amber light, I should not red light, I realize I am not a consistent factor at this time in the equation, but the current car has not proved itself either.
Glensgages has been very helpful to me, I am just trying to determine if I am wasting his time
Glensgages has been very helpful to me, I am just trying to determine if I am wasting his time
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,457
Likes: 22
Mine is also set to .320. If you're thinking yours is slower, than I've definitely got to be slower.
It seems like when I'm cutting a .035 on the practice tree, it really translates to like a .12 on the real tree. Obviously, I'm not going to be able to do the same thing round after round. However, it seems foolish to be using the practice tree, if I'm really conditioning myself for a .12 instead of a .02.
It seems like when I'm cutting a .035 on the practice tree, it really translates to like a .12 on the real tree. Obviously, I'm not going to be able to do the same thing round after round. However, it seems foolish to be using the practice tree, if I'm really conditioning myself for a .12 instead of a .02.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,457
Likes: 22
I always hate to post in a thread like this, partly because I am such a rookie at this, however, I have noticed I am more comfortable in the daylight rather than the dark (naturally when most races are) I believe I am picking up the reflection from the second light versus the 3rd light starting to glow. After several practice sessions, my red lights increase in darker enviroments versus daytime type conditions. Has anybody else experienced this? Common sense tells me that if I am actually seeing the 3rd amber light, I should not red light, I realize I am not a consistent factor at this time in the equation, but the current car has not proved itself either.
Glensgages has been very helpful to me, I am just trying to determine if I am wasting his time
Glensgages has been very helpful to me, I am just trying to determine if I am wasting his time
I had simular issues. I was anticipation the 3rd amber and had issues going from day to dusk to dark. Took a year for me to not jump and actually "wait" for the 3rd amber. Had to adjust the car for the "wait". Do a T&T on a pro .500 tree. That's the only way to see your what your "true" reaction time. I go off the 2nd amber in the mustang however "hit" that bulb just like a deep stager hits the 3rd amber. I know of a lot of good racers that know that they anticipaitiong the light. They set the practice tree up and get into a rhythm.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,172
Likes: 86
From: State of Confusion
I agree. I has a simular issue early this year. I was .020 on the practice tree but .080 on the track. Did a T&T on a pro .500 tree. Yep the car was setup for .080 lights. I adjusted the rollout in the practice tree to match my real life reaction times. IMO change the setup in the car and not your spot on the tree. Again IMO I believe your are hitting the tree "correctly" and not anticipation. You need to get the car to launch .100 faster. Perhaps deep staging. I was already deep and launching as hard as possible in the mustang. Still I was only .080 lights. Instead of putting $$$ into the car to make it launch .080 faster, I figured how to slow the car's reaction. By shallow stageing and seting the car up to go on the 2nd amber. Settings are shallow, off idle, all tires 20lbs, and launch from second gear. I have my practice tree roll out set for .790 which match my performance on the track. I did take the car on a pro .500 tree again to verify my setup. I'm .5xx on the pro tree which works out for perfect 2nd amber launches.
he staged the car with his Right-foot on the brake pedal, with the car idling in 1st Gear, then swapped pedals at the 2nd bulb with that same foot, stabbing the skinny!
He claimed that he had won a few races using this method, and I suppose if a guy was consistent-enough using this, it could work:
Forum-member ISOSCELES & I called this the 'One-Foot/Two-Step'
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,457
Likes: 22
A few years ago, I saw a thread at DRR in the foot-brake section, about a successful racer who was leaving on the second Amber bulb, but he did it entirely different:
he staged the car with his Right-foot on the brake pedal, with the car idling in 1st Gear, then swapped pedals at the 2nd bulb with that same foot, stabbing the skinny!
He claimed that he had won a few races using this method, and I suppose if a guy was consistent-enough using this, it could work:
Forum-member ISOSCELES & I called this the 'One-Foot/Two-Step'
he staged the car with his Right-foot on the brake pedal, with the car idling in 1st Gear, then swapped pedals at the 2nd bulb with that same foot, stabbing the skinny!
He claimed that he had won a few races using this method, and I suppose if a guy was consistent-enough using this, it could work:
Forum-member ISOSCELES & I called this the 'One-Foot/Two-Step'
Last edited by kazman; Sep 9, 2009 at 10:38 AM.
