I specifically said 2 mph under same conditions, not 1-2 under varying conditions.

If a motor bogs down as in the example above it decrease the amount of hp being put out by the car over the run thus affecting mph.

Like I mentioned above if you want to be technical and say that only hp affects mph then you must add in that the driver has a significant role in how the hp is applied during a given 1/4 run which in turn can influence mph.

Also , power under the curve needs to be the hp you are talking about. 2 cars with the same peak hp, and same weight, and drag coefficient may not trap the same.
That's why I like to describe this"HP" as power under the curve for a given run produced by the car. Then it's easier to understand how other factors can play a role in mph (ie. tires).

I know Tony and typically see eye to eye with him on many of these discussions. I tend to throw in alot of real world data for people to analyze.

I'm curious to see how this girl does and am always interested in people experiences running the 1/4 with a manual.

 

I too anxious to see what she can do,they, her and her mom are going on a cruise next week when she comes back we are gonna go and like I said i post exactly what she does.This is a perfect example of a totally inexperienced driver with regards to hi performance, a clean sheet.My observation is she is comphy driving a stick ,she is in control of the car I thinkshe will put down a good number ....the only wild card is I don't know if she is afraid of going fast we'll see.....kenny How does power under the curve play into a all out drag scenario you are well into the power band as soon as you leave the line at the sixty foot you are prob. reving 5000 rpm. If you are "driving the car" off the line carefully working the gas and clutch you will sixty foot better prob. get a better ET that is where power under the curve will help ET the car, but mph will be the same...2 cars same hp ,weight,drag coefficient will most certainly trap the same. One car with a experienced driver will in all probably win the race but the mph will be the same...again I really don't get what your saying in regards to how hp is applied in a given 1/4 mile run this is not road racing where you tip into and out of the gas continually once you get out of the hole you put it to the floor.....if you say HP is not a function of vehicle weight and MPH Why is there a mathmatical formula which if you have two variables you can get the third.Again this is math and physics 2 and 2 =4 always does but doesn't = 3 because you're inexperienced in math

 

You may not wish to pursue this mathematically. This would not benefit you. Calculators are just that, calculators. Calculators cannot accurately predict real world conditions as they can be based on ideal conditions or imperical data that may not be representative of a particular vehicle. That said, power under the curve is important since a greater average amount of HP can be applied over a greater amount of time, thus increasing MPH. Greater work applied to an object will accelerate it quicker, right? (1+1=2) Drivers of six speed cars can adversely or positively impact their applied power under the curve.

 

I aren't the smartest guy regarding C4/C5/C6-cars, and even less-so when it comes-to M6-equipped rides, but I did notice something

Dozer is picking-up 24 MPH (105 less 81) from 660' to 1320' in a 13-second / low 100-MPH vehicle, while it is my recollection that most bracket-cars in this ET / MPH range are gaining 20-22 MPH over the same distance:
is it possible that 'that's all there is in 'ere, ain't no mo' ?

 

You right about on the money..

my car picks up from 21-24 mph in the last 1/2 of the track.. depending on weather and 60' time...the 24 is by far my best...21-23 is more realistic..

 

Is the 1/8 mile low?
With a manual, back half mph can be skewed when a shift occurs right @ the 1/8th.

 

You cant say that. It's only peak hp and weight.

 

I agree.... I'm still using a stock converter, I think if I go to a 2800- 3200 converter it will pick up in the first 1/2 ...my 60' are only 1.950 + or - a few tho.

 

That's a very good point...looking at the splits it does appear that he has some consistency throughout the run, that he's not just losing 1/4 mile trap speed. But still, those numbers are far from normal/acceptable for that car in those (track location, air) conditions and that it simply can't be 'all she's got' unless something is mechanically wrong with the vehicle.
The 24mph gain from the 1/8th to the 1/4 is fine (that's exactly what I'd gained when I was stock as well) but both numbers are notably lower (with ETs notably higher) than where they should be under those conditions and weight.
A solid pass (with an eye on coolant temps and good driving) should be in the 12.7/12.8 range at over 110mph (8.4/8.5 at roughly 86mph in the 1/8th), IMO.

 

Just how is power under the curve in a drag race situation going to increase MPH"Greater average amount of HP can be applied over a greater amount of time"so you keep the car under the curve longer and the car mph increases?!? Under the curve meaning under peak hp and or peak torque as in a dyno sheet where torque and hp are represented on a gragh and all below is considered "under the curve" is this the curve you are refering to?in drag racing you don/t want average HP you want max HP GET IT TO THE RPM WHERE YOU MAKE MAX POWER as quickly as possible...caculators cannot predict real world conditions but they can predict what is possible for example you are at a bracket race vehicle weight 3400 lbs ,400 RWHP 118 MPH And you're too fast for the index just add weight or take out HP... vehicle MPH is HP and vehicle weight.you know the variables mathmatically you can change one and the others change.this is not my opinion its fact.You can bog ,spin, change gearsbut the hp and weight will determine mph

 

The average power under the curve can be found found by either integrating the polynomial, or easier yet, using the trapezoidal rule. First you will need to determine the the starting shift point as well as the rpm at which the engine drops down to after each shift. By maximizing your shift points, a maximum average HP can be obtained. (I was not referring to averaging the whole power curve but only the portion in which I intend to maximize.) A novice driver would have no way of knowing this. In a six speed car, driver input is substantial. May I suggest that a novice drive your six speed car and then allow a well seasoned veteran drive the same car and we can verify our assumptions?

 

guess you have not read entire post,gonna do just that.A friends daughter 26 year old female ,no hot rod,fast car,drag racing experience of any kind,her brother had a stick shift and she liked it.Her last two cars were stick the latest on she bought new a toyota corrola S.She has hinted half joking she would like to drive the vette and is interested in going to the track.She is going on a cruise next wewek when she comes back we'll go and make some passes,I don't expect a good 60 ft or any kind of light at all nor do i expect any decent ET but i expect the mile per hour will be comparable to mph that the car is running that day.I will make a baseline pass if it is a cool dayi expect 114 to 115 mph. I will tell all exactly what happens good or bad.

 

Excellent. You may also wish to invite robz and perhaps a couple of passes by him may show additional data, good or bad.

 

Here's a perfect real world example of what we're talking about. I believe it is the same car that Kenny has. 03Z with intake and exhaust.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/perf...-best-ets.html

Read the intial post, then read post #13 about track results.
This is just one example of hundreds that I've seen and or read about on how mph can be drastically affected by driver.

Kenny, I'm guessing that the gal will run a 13.9@ 110 in your car in 80 degrees.

 

Hi robz,

Can you name the thread you are referring too? I couldn't find your reference in the Horsepower vs Torque thread in the C5 tech section.

I'm really hoping that I can blame my low MPH on temps in the 200-220 range and bad driving. I really do not like the thought of something wrong with my vette.

Thanks,
Paul

 

Just fixed my post above yours.

The info discussed may not be the entire reason for your lower mph but it can be helpful for you and others as you get more into this hobby.

 

Read post you are referring to,my point is MPH is determined by weight and HP he made two passes MPH was within 1/2 mph despite the fact that 3 tenths difference between runs,poorly prepared car, inexp. driver caused diff. in et,however mph remained consistant.I think I know the point you are trying to make,did you cite this post because the MPH was low for this car? If so my point is still valid if his driving style is only allowing his car to making say 250 HP,it's making 250HP every run now you take over driving ,you go 115 mph because of your driving exp.but every pass that you make will be in the 115 mph range because you know how to get 350 hp to rear wheel whereas he knows how to get 250 HP to rear wheels and his MPH proves my point 3 tenth diff in et (thats huge) yet 1/2 mph difference.You said you get in your buddy's and go faster than him as your experience tells you how to get that last HP out of the car but it's the HP you are able to get out of the car that makes you faster.The car had that HP all the time and it will run that MPH EVERY RUN EVEN WITH A POOR LEAVE I'm done with this postfor now as soon as my rookie driver is ready I'll post it. My predictionshe will run within 2 mph of my pass and I predict 13 ohs she mighgt just hit the twelves...remember this is a chick that has never driven anything over 100 hp STAY TUNED FOR NEXT INSTALLMENT

 

A new Z06 showed up a couple of weeks ago at out Texas Muscle Car Challenge at an 1/8
track event. The temperature was close to 100. His best MPH was 88. He was on stock tires and this was his first time at our challenge.

Run a manual switch with Pro Cooler Intake bag on my 94 M6 396 LT1 with Hoosier DR's. Have similar power Levels as the new Z06 with similar car weight. My MPH was 94-95.

As noted by everyone already, alot of variables can effect your MPH.

 

Thanks for your input. I appreciate it.

Can tell me where I could get a Pro Cooler Intake bag? Is it better than a plain bag of ice?

Thanks,
Paul

 

Glad to help. Bought the Pro Cooler bag from a NJ company about 10 years ago for the C4. Fireproof material with Velcro straps. The frozen Gel Packs fit inside the bag. A bag of ice will drip water and is not recommended.

Do not think this company is still around. John Mackey or JPEE would know this. Surprised a bag for the C6 was never made.