LS race engine build
Thread Starter
Cruising
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
LS race engine build
I will soon be starting a build for a LS drag race engine and would like to get some suggestions on what vendor would be the most helpful and best to work with. We will be doing engine assembly at our shop but I would prefer to buy all of my parts (at least major ones) from one vendor so we are always on the same page throughout the build.
I'm thinking 408-434in n/a carb engine that will be a strictly race engine ran on alcohol so street manners don't matter. It will be going in a tube chassis car that should weigh around 2200lbs minus driver. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
I'm thinking 408-434in n/a carb engine that will be a strictly race engine ran on alcohol so street manners don't matter. It will be going in a tube chassis car that should weigh around 2200lbs minus driver. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Last edited by WV Z06; Jul 31, 2016 at 09:28 PM.
Thread Starter
Cruising
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
AMP Racing
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 10,755
Likes: 589
From: Washington TWP NJ
2023 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
2017 C5 of Year Finalist
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-'12
Thanks for the PM. That car is sweet, I'll post the pics for others to see if you'd like.
An 800hp NA LS engine is pretty easy to build, to get to the 1000hp range, the price goes up quickly and you'd probably be better off building a BBC.
ERL 4.125 bore block
Good internals 15:1 cr.
All-Pro heads and intake.
4500 dominator...
I'm sure you know the basics of miscellaneous extras.
I'm not sure how many vendors on here have built 1000hp engines.
My first call would be to Brian, then to Darin Morgan.
Another good source is Ed Curtis, though I have not personally worked with him.
If you're looking for a budget build to get the car going, a stock LQ9 short block and LS3 top end with a GMPP carb intake and custom cam has been 9.75 in a 2800 lb fox body. I bet he had less than $5,000 in the entire engine.
Another really good source of LS engine tech without the keyboard warriors is Yellowbullet.
An 800hp NA LS engine is pretty easy to build, to get to the 1000hp range, the price goes up quickly and you'd probably be better off building a BBC.
ERL 4.125 bore block
Good internals 15:1 cr.
All-Pro heads and intake.
4500 dominator...
I'm sure you know the basics of miscellaneous extras.
I'm not sure how many vendors on here have built 1000hp engines.
My first call would be to Brian, then to Darin Morgan.
Another good source is Ed Curtis, though I have not personally worked with him.
If you're looking for a budget build to get the car going, a stock LQ9 short block and LS3 top end with a GMPP carb intake and custom cam has been 9.75 in a 2800 lb fox body. I bet he had less than $5,000 in the entire engine.
Another really good source of LS engine tech without the keyboard warriors is Yellowbullet.
AMP Racing
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 10,755
Likes: 589
From: Washington TWP NJ
2023 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
2017 C5 of Year Finalist
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-'12
I just posted my reply before seeing yours stating a 700-800 goal...
My engine in your car would likely run the numbers you're looking for.
I'm EFI, but it's an LS7 short block with LSX ls7 heads and a custom Brian Tooley hydraulic roller cam. 14.5:1 on E85.
I'm still working out some bugs, but it's been 9.7x@140 with a 1.49 60'... So you know it would fly in your chassis.
My engine in your car would likely run the numbers you're looking for.
I'm EFI, but it's an LS7 short block with LSX ls7 heads and a custom Brian Tooley hydraulic roller cam. 14.5:1 on E85.
I'm still working out some bugs, but it's been 9.7x@140 with a 1.49 60'... So you know it would fly in your chassis.
Thread Starter
Cruising
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Thanks for the PM. That car is sweet, I'll post the pics for others to see if you'd like.
An 800hp NA LS engine is pretty easy to build, to get to the 1000hp range, the price goes up quickly and you'd probably be better off building a BBC.
ERL 4.125 bore block
Good internals 15:1 cr.
All-Pro heads and intake.
4500 dominator...
I'm sure you know the basics of miscellaneous extras.
I'm not sure how many vendors on here have built 1000hp engines.
My first call would be to Brian, then to Darin Morgan.
Another good source is Ed Curtis, though I have not personally worked with him.
If you're looking for a budget build to get the car going, a stock LQ9 short block and LS3 top end with a GMPP carb intake and custom cam has been 9.75 in a 2800 lb fox body. I bet he had less than $5,000 in the entire engine.
Another really good source of LS engine tech without the keyboard warriors is Yellowbullet.
An 800hp NA LS engine is pretty easy to build, to get to the 1000hp range, the price goes up quickly and you'd probably be better off building a BBC.
ERL 4.125 bore block
Good internals 15:1 cr.
All-Pro heads and intake.
4500 dominator...
I'm sure you know the basics of miscellaneous extras.
I'm not sure how many vendors on here have built 1000hp engines.
My first call would be to Brian, then to Darin Morgan.
Another good source is Ed Curtis, though I have not personally worked with him.
If you're looking for a budget build to get the car going, a stock LQ9 short block and LS3 top end with a GMPP carb intake and custom cam has been 9.75 in a 2800 lb fox body. I bet he had less than $5,000 in the entire engine.
Another really good source of LS engine tech without the keyboard warriors is Yellowbullet.
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AMP Racing
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 10,755
Likes: 589
From: Washington TWP NJ
2023 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
2017 C5 of Year Finalist
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-'12
Scoggin Dickey Parts Center is another good source for parts and advice. They are a GMPP sales outlet and have a race engine build shop too.
Thread Starter
Cruising
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
The car I bought came with headers that were ran on ls3 heads. If I decide to go with a ls7 head will these headers still work?
Also, is there any reason why shouldn't go with a solid roller setup?
Also, is there any reason why shouldn't go with a solid roller setup?
Last edited by WV Z06; Aug 1, 2016 at 08:47 PM.
AMP Racing
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 10,755
Likes: 589
From: Washington TWP NJ
2023 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
2017 C5 of Year Finalist
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-'12
The headers will fit whatever heads you use.
There are many proven combos out there running hydraulic cams. I'm talking 7.8x@180 in the 1/4 mile.
There really is no need for a solid roller in what you're looking to build.
Another thing is the expense. Especially if you're thinking of using the LS7 head, as the rockers are mounted on pedestals and they have to be machined off to mount the rail that the solids mount on. You're looking at $1600+ to get solid roller in an LS7 application vs $500 for a high quality short travel hydraulic.
I'm using the Comp short travel lifters with .690 lift and oem rockers along with Brian's spring kit.
Brian has done a ton of spintron testing and swears by hydraulic.
I had my doubts, but am definitely sold on them now.
I spin my engine to 7600 rpm every pass.
There are many proven combos out there running hydraulic cams. I'm talking 7.8x@180 in the 1/4 mile.
There really is no need for a solid roller in what you're looking to build.
Another thing is the expense. Especially if you're thinking of using the LS7 head, as the rockers are mounted on pedestals and they have to be machined off to mount the rail that the solids mount on. You're looking at $1600+ to get solid roller in an LS7 application vs $500 for a high quality short travel hydraulic.
I'm using the Comp short travel lifters with .690 lift and oem rockers along with Brian's spring kit.
Brian has done a ton of spintron testing and swears by hydraulic.
I had my doubts, but am definitely sold on them now.
I spin my engine to 7600 rpm every pass.
Thread Starter
Cruising
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
The headers will fit whatever heads you use.
There are many proven combos out there running hydraulic cams. I'm talking 7.8x@180 in the 1/4 mile.
There really is no need for a solid roller in what you're looking to build.
Another thing is the expense. Especially if you're thinking of using the LS7 head, as the rockers are mounted on pedestals and they have to be machined off to mount the rail that the solids mount on. You're looking at $1600+ to get solid roller in an LS7 application vs $500 for a high quality short travel hydraulic.
I'm using the Comp short travel lifters with .690 lift and oem rockers along with Brian's spring kit.
Brian has done a ton of spintron testing and swears by hydraulic.
I had my doubts, but am definitely sold on them now.
I spin my engine to 7600 rpm every pass.
There are many proven combos out there running hydraulic cams. I'm talking 7.8x@180 in the 1/4 mile.
There really is no need for a solid roller in what you're looking to build.
Another thing is the expense. Especially if you're thinking of using the LS7 head, as the rockers are mounted on pedestals and they have to be machined off to mount the rail that the solids mount on. You're looking at $1600+ to get solid roller in an LS7 application vs $500 for a high quality short travel hydraulic.
I'm using the Comp short travel lifters with .690 lift and oem rockers along with Brian's spring kit.
Brian has done a ton of spintron testing and swears by hydraulic.
I had my doubts, but am definitely sold on them now.
I spin my engine to 7600 rpm every pass.
How much benefit would it be to go with a ls7 head over ls3 on something like a 416 or 434?
AMP Racing
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 10,755
Likes: 589
From: Washington TWP NJ
2023 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
2017 C5 of Year Finalist
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-'12
From what I've seen the main metric in the LS3 vs LS7 head is intake choice and class rules.
In your case, the LS7 head is the clear winner. It's a 12* valve angle head and flows close to 400cfm out of the box.
If I were building an engine for your chassis car,
I'd start with an LS7 short block and keep the dry sump setup since you have plenty of room up front to mount the oil tank.
Oem LS7 heads with a little work will flow great and a CID 4500 intake with the carb of your choice. Mill them down to a 55cc chamber or so and flycut the pistons. They come with titanium intake valves from the factory. Basically a race head on and OEM application.
Another option is a Holley Hi Ram base and a Hogan 4500 top. Although, in a carb application I don't know if that would really work as well as the CID intake.
Comp or Johnson short travel lifters (no need for link bar) and OEM rockers with the Straub bushings.
A Hinson timing chain. 3/8 pushrods from anyone but Trend.
MSD box to control timing.
I want to see this thing when you get it to the track!!!
In your case, the LS7 head is the clear winner. It's a 12* valve angle head and flows close to 400cfm out of the box.
If I were building an engine for your chassis car,
I'd start with an LS7 short block and keep the dry sump setup since you have plenty of room up front to mount the oil tank.
Oem LS7 heads with a little work will flow great and a CID 4500 intake with the carb of your choice. Mill them down to a 55cc chamber or so and flycut the pistons. They come with titanium intake valves from the factory. Basically a race head on and OEM application.
Another option is a Holley Hi Ram base and a Hogan 4500 top. Although, in a carb application I don't know if that would really work as well as the CID intake.
Comp or Johnson short travel lifters (no need for link bar) and OEM rockers with the Straub bushings.
A Hinson timing chain. 3/8 pushrods from anyone but Trend.
MSD box to control timing.
I want to see this thing when you get it to the track!!!
Thread Starter
Cruising
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From what I've seen the main metric in the LS3 vs LS7 head is intake choice and class rules.
In your case, the LS7 head is the clear winner. It's a 12* valve angle head and flows close to 400cfm out of the box.
If I were building an engine for your chassis car,
I'd start with an LS7 short block and keep the dry sump setup since you have plenty of room up front to mount the oil tank.
Oem LS7 heads with a little work will flow great and a CID 4500 intake with the carb of your choice. Mill them down to a 55cc chamber or so and flycut the pistons. They come with titanium intake valves from the factory. Basically a race head on and OEM application.
Another option is a Holley Hi Ram base and a Hogan 4500 top. Although, in a carb application I don't know if that would really work as well as the CID intake.
Comp or Johnson short travel lifters (no need for link bar) and OEM rockers with the Straub bushings.
A Hinson timing chain. 3/8 pushrods from anyone but Trend.
MSD box to control timing.
I want to see this thing when you get it to the track!!!
In your case, the LS7 head is the clear winner. It's a 12* valve angle head and flows close to 400cfm out of the box.
If I were building an engine for your chassis car,
I'd start with an LS7 short block and keep the dry sump setup since you have plenty of room up front to mount the oil tank.
Oem LS7 heads with a little work will flow great and a CID 4500 intake with the carb of your choice. Mill them down to a 55cc chamber or so and flycut the pistons. They come with titanium intake valves from the factory. Basically a race head on and OEM application.
Another option is a Holley Hi Ram base and a Hogan 4500 top. Although, in a carb application I don't know if that would really work as well as the CID intake.
Comp or Johnson short travel lifters (no need for link bar) and OEM rockers with the Straub bushings.
A Hinson timing chain. 3/8 pushrods from anyone but Trend.
MSD box to control timing.
I want to see this thing when you get it to the track!!!
Thanks for taking the time to help give me some direction to get started with this build man I really appreciate it.
AMP Racing
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 10,755
Likes: 589
From: Washington TWP NJ
2023 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
2017 C5 of Year Finalist
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-'12
Some people say you can fit an LS7 head on a 4.07 bore, some say you need to install a smaller exhaust valve for them to fit, and some people say you just need to machine a bit of the top of the cylinder wall to make them fit. Another thing you can do is get a small bore Ls7 head from Trickflow (there are probably others but I don't know who else makes them).
One downside to using the LS block is you are very limited in how much you can overbore the cylinders. There are several companies that make and install sleeves for a larger - and stronger - cylinder wall. ERL and RED are two companies that do this process.
Your motor plate will work fine for whatever block you choose as the exterior dimensions are all the same.
Daytona sensors makes excellent stuff. Much better than MSD. Good that you have that already.
One downside to using the LS block is you are very limited in how much you can overbore the cylinders. There are several companies that make and install sleeves for a larger - and stronger - cylinder wall. ERL and RED are two companies that do this process.
Your motor plate will work fine for whatever block you choose as the exterior dimensions are all the same.
Daytona sensors makes excellent stuff. Much better than MSD. Good that you have that already.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,687
Likes: 86
From: De Pere, WI
if the budget is an issue, a 408 LQ9 with either GMPP CNC LS3 head, GMPP LS9 heads, or TFS 255s are a solid way to go for a fraction of the cost of the LS7. Pair it with a ported Super Vic and some gooooood compression and you will certainly get the power you are looking for and spend a lot less than the LS7 route.
Thread Starter
Cruising
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
if the budget is an issue, a 408 LQ9 with either GMPP CNC LS3 head, GMPP LS9 heads, or TFS 255s are a solid way to go for a fraction of the cost of the LS7. Pair it with a ported Super Vic and some gooooood compression and you will certainly get the power you are looking for and spend a lot less than the LS7 route.
Last edited by WV Z06; Aug 2, 2016 at 07:36 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,962
Likes: 64
I will soon be starting a build for a LS drag race engine and would like to get some suggestions on what vendor would be the most helpful and best to work with. We will be doing engine assembly at our shop but I would prefer to buy all of my parts (at least major ones) from one vendor so we are always on the same page throughout the build.
I'm thinking 408-434in n/a carb engine that will be a strictly race engine ran on alcohol so street manners don't matter. It will be going in a tube chassis car that should weigh around 2200lbs minus driver. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
I'm thinking 408-434in n/a carb engine that will be a strictly race engine ran on alcohol so street manners don't matter. It will be going in a tube chassis car that should weigh around 2200lbs minus driver. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thread Starter
Cruising
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
I just bought the car a couple weeks ago and as soon as I get his name and sponsors off the car I'll post some pics. At risk of being attacked on this forum I have to admit it's a 3rd gen Camaro body not a Corvettte lol.