I believe that AFR heads have some real design flaws. One of which is poor oil return. I have a brand new motor built with great care and I'm embarrassed every time I start it because of a cloud of blue smoke.

The poor design of the AFR heads has the springs and valve stem seal sitting in a deep pocket of oil. Oil seeps around the valve stems and you have an oil burner of a brand new motor in the prime of it's life.

I've seen a post about machining AFR heads for better oil control.

I'm going to post this on various forums and if I get enough people willing to respond, I will first contact the CEO of AFR and see how they would like to resolve this problem.

I'd like to hear both positive and negative on oil use and spark plug to headers clearance. Maybe I'm just the only unlucky one.

 

I've had mine for almost a year now and haven't noticed any smoke on startup, no problems with spark plug clearance either.

 

I had smoke on start-up on my 350 with the afr 195's, my brother though it was funny how my built up 350 would blow blue smoke on start-up.

 

At one time (still?) AFR had plug angles of their own design in addition to the "L98" angle. Footnotes in the Hooker catalog say that the popular, 2149, 2151, and 2151-1 headers don't fit AFR angle plug heads.

RACE ON!!!

 

Here is an idea, put the AFR sticker in the window, and then get i nice photo of your car smoking with the sticker visible in the photo, and send it to AFR. Great way to advertise performance cylinder heads.

 

Haven't seen one head get near the (flow) numbers they advertise. Even CNC'd. Last choice of heads to use. Just bolted a set off the dyno and replaced them with another brand, picked up some add'l power. I think maybe they test the SB's on a 4.500' bore and the BB's on 6.000" bore!

 

Mine did. In fact they exceeded the published numbers a bit at some lift points. As a matter of fact, I have yet to see any mid sized head flow anywhere close to AFRs numbers (apples to apples). They've got some some nasty QC problems to be sure, but you gotta hand it to them as far as the numbers are concerned. I think in the future I'd buy their bare castings and set them up myself.

350camaro.........let me know if you decide to get rid of those old "boat anchors"

 

GKull, I have been wondering about my oil consumption problems on my 406 with AFR 210 heads. I was getting the big puff of blue smoke on start-up as well. The motor also smokes under full throttle, although it is hard to tell because the tires are usually spinning! Pretty embarrasing considering I put almost 10K into my motor! I was going to take the motor apart because I thought I had a ring problem...
I also had to dent the #6 exhaust header to fit a sparkplug into my Hooker super comps.

 

This was a comment from a AFR rep. to this post on the C-4 forum.


http://forums.corvetteforum.com/new...ly&p=1550376623



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Mamo
Gkull….

Sorry to hear about your frustration with our product. The 23’ SBC product line is the oldest of all of our tooling, and some of the design of this product dates back to the Brownfield days a long time ago. We are aware this tooling needed some “modernization” and have been working diligently on the completion of our new “Eliminator” 23’ SBC line that we hope to launch by the middle of summer. The first products to ship will be our “street” products ( the180 and 195 cc heads), with the larger race heads to follow in a few months. Some of the new design features will be larger oil returns holes and a better oil return route which will keep the spring pockets and valve guides from being submerged in oil. With the proper AFR seals, our current product doesn’t seem to have many issues, and the few calls we receive with complaints are usually from people that have swapped our seals for something different. We would like to try and help you address the problem you are having and would encourage you to send the heads back to AFR for evaluation if the opportunity ever presented itself (heads were off the car for some reason).

Thank you,
Tony Mamo
AFR Sales / Product Design
(818)890-0616 Ext. 109

PS…..In addition to working as quickly as possible on our new SBC tooling, we are also adding new machining centers and three new CNC porting machines to help improve our problems with delivery and lead times.




This whole statement really bothers me that AFR claims to be #1 and then admits that they use a 20 year old Brownfield design. So they have been screwing people all these years with just an advertisement campain.

 

glad i'm not ready to buy now

 

A big issue is marketing based on flow numbers. People tend to focus all of their attention on flow numbers and forget that flow numbers are not the same as hp or torque. An IC engine is extremely complex and other variables in the head design besides flow numbers influence power including combustion chamber design, velocity, swirl, valve seat angles and finish, heat transfer, etc. The quality of the casting is important too in case anything ever needs to be repaired.

 

Guys....

Please note AFR's 2nd (and final) response below to this situation (copied and pasted from the C4 Tech thread). If ANY of you have any issues regarding our cylinder heads, I urge you to contact me directly at AFR. We have a tremendous amount of integrity and are NOT the monster big bad corporation that the internet tries to lead you to believe. The management team and owners of this company are a great group of guys, top notch with tremendous morals and I'm proud to be affiliated with them. I packed up my entire life on the eastcoast and moved to LA for the opportunity to work with AFR....the people involved made my decision that much easier.

Anyway....here is the post I referenced above.


[QUOTE]
I will post for the last time on this thread to try and address a few issues that I feel need to be clarified. If any of you feel you need additional information, please take the time to call me at AFR directly.

First and foremost our advertised flow numbers represent accurate flow data that we are able to meet in a “production” environment. There are always variables in production (cutter life, “stacking” of machine tolerances, etc) that ultimately effect flow….some heads will flow a little more and some heads will flow a little less, but what’s important to know is that we stand behind the numbers we advertise and we guarantee they will flow within 2% of our published figures. If any of you have flow concerns regarding our product, it’s up to you to contact us so we can arrange to have the heads evaluated here to see if in fact they are down on flow so we can do something about it if need be. There are LOTS of variables when flow testing cylinder heads (bore fixture size, radius plates versus clay, exhaust tube versus open, variables in the actual flow equipment and how the test was performed etc., etc.)….if we don’t have a chance to evaluate our own product there is not much we can do for you. Perhaps a few of you legitimately had a cylinder head that was soft on flow, but without having the opportunity to evaluate it I would have to reserve comment on that. I encourage anyone that has a problem in this area to contact me personally at AFR.

Regarding the oiling issues a few of you are experiencing….numerous situations can be attributed to the same outcome….manifold gasket leaks (sucking oil from the valley), a bad PCV system, worn or sloppy guides from improper valve geometry, faulty ring seal, clogged breathers, etc. The reality is we ship hundreds of small block Chevy heads every month…some of them going to very detail oriented engine builders that would call us if our product caused them any grief, and the bottom line is we receive very few calls from customers that are having problems. Certainly there are things that could be improved (which we are), but these heads have been providing proven performance for the masses for over 15 years in their current configuration. What’s most important here is that if you ARE having a problem or a potential warranty issue, we will stand behind our product and make it right. BUT….we can’t possibly do that if you guys don’t give us the chance….this whole misery loves company thing on the various boards is not getting you any closer to a resolution of your potential problems. How many larger cylinder head manufacturer’s are even here to address your concern’s?? Give us the benefit of the doubt before you jump on the bandwagon of negativity without having all the facts. George never even bought the heads direct from us or even one of our dealers and we tried our best to help him out. The parts that were replaced needed to be replaced….six intake valves were bent pretty badly and two of them were “tweaked”….We charged him for exactly what he needed….eight intake valves and one exhaust….no more, no less. As far as the freight goes, it was shipped 3 day air which was probably an oversight on our part considering it was only shipping to Nevada….we could have certainly shipped it to him for less utilizing UPS ground. Had this been brought to our attention at the time, then we would have gladly refunded the difference (this is the first we have heard about the freight issue). In fact, we will be cutting George a check tomorrow for the difference and mailing it to the address on file. It’s too long ago (2003) for me to comment on the valve spring mishap and there certainly might have been a misunderstanding on our part regarding the spring swap….I looked thru the file and didn’t see mention of a swap to solid roller springs.

Guys, you can believe what you want and who you want, but the bottom line is that AFR is a stand up company, and has been for 35 years….that’s why we will be around for 35 more. We go out of our way to help our customers and genuinely care about their needs and concerns. While the current SBC foundry tooling is showing it’s age, this family of heads has been getting the job done now for many years as magazine test after magazine test can usually attest to. We are working hard at completing the all new SBC product that we will launch sometime in the Summer/Fall timeframe which will all but eliminate some of the issues you guys have had with us in the past, as well as provide even higher levels of performance and value.

For the last time….If you have ANY issues with our product, we would appreciate a chance to resolve these issues before posting on the internet….Hopefully that being the case you can post you had some issues with AFR heads but were very satisfied with our customer service and ultimate resolution of your situation.

Sincerely,
Tony Mamo

PS…..George, we tried contacting you by phone today but couldn’t reach you. We will try again tomorrow.
[QUOTE]

 

I have had nothing but good experiences with any AFR heads I have owned or worked with.

I have a set of their 357cc BBC heads on my 565ci and they have worked flawlessly so far. They flowed almost the exact advertised numbrs, they made the expected power, and there is absolutely no oil burning.

I have not heard of any bad experiences with their LS1 program heads either.

I wouldnt frown upon the whole company because they are having slight problems with one of their oldest castings.

 

I've generally been pleased with their heads having used several (195, 210, 220) on my old Vette engines, and now their 315CNC on my 540 BBC boat engines. My only complaint about the SBC heads I used was that the vailve cover rails were so low, that it was difficult to ensure a 100% seal, even with the blu fel-pro gaskets. The BBC's have a high valve cover rail and this hasn't been a problem in the boat thank good cause the manifolds and risers have to be removed to get at the outer vlave cover bolts.

 

The only problem I've had with mine was self induced. I cross treaded one of the spark plugs and had to have it repaired. The difference between the 350 and the 406 was like night and day,so I can not say all the credit goes to the AFR heads,but it was substantial.
I researched the head purchase carefully for a year or so prior(benifit of no money is it takes a long time to buy something) and found many engine shops using them on their top of the line engines,magazine build ups,cam comparison articles,intake comparison articles,etc. I did not buy into a head to head shoot out,but noticed many tests using AFR heads in their specific articles.
My experience is with 20 years of stock heads only,then installing one of the reputed best 23 degree heads out there may not be a way to compare AFR to any other head,but I just wanted to make a statement that AFR is not a bad product,especially for the price. My inital plan was to use Iron Eagles,but Summit raised the price just prior to my purchase,and I decided for a few extra bucks to get the AFR's.
I have had no oil consumption issues what so ever and as for their old school design,are we all not "building" an engine that was developed 40 years ago or so?

 

I'm very pleased w/ the quality and performance of my AFR 335 CNC BB heads. No oil consumption problems. My only complaint is the roller rocker arm tips are not centered on 3 valves regardless of guide plate positioning.

The AFR big block heads have earned their reputation as the best bang-for-the-buck head aluminum head. IMO.

Mark

 

My friend had a broken rocker stud and guide plate on his 190s. AFR acknowledged that some of their hardware had problems with the heat treat. I geuss they didn't feel it necessary to contact their affected customers though?

 

See #3
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...34&forum_id=48

 

You won't get the same flow numbers out of the AFR heads if you dont' use their valves. They have special angles that outflow pretty much any other valve.

About the oil problem, Tony is normally a real nice guy to work with. If you really believe that it is the heads, then I'm sure that they will replace them for you.

 

I have used AFR heads on quite a few engines over the years. I currently have them on two of my enignes, a 406 in my '65 convertible and a 383 in my '81 Vette. Neither one smoke and they perform quite well. Both eninges have over 30,000 miles on them.
I still believe the AFR heads are the best bang for the buck.