406 questions
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,130
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From: mesa,az
406 questions ( pics added )
i am bound and determined to build another engine for my 65. i have a fairly new built 327 in there but it's not really got the umph i'm looking for. I tossed around building a blower motor for it but i have have a blower BBC built for another project and they get real expensive real fast. anyhow, got a friend checking around for a 400 block. plan on useing the RPM heads, fuel pump, RPM intake, and comp roller rockers off of my 327 . other then that i am open to suggestions. going in my 65 vette, 3.90 rear, keisler 5 speed. like it to peak out by 6000 RPM ,it's just a fun car.
Last edited by panchop; Mar 24, 2006 at 03:31 AM. Reason: pics added
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
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From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
It really comes down to how much you want to throw into it. If you need a crank I would install one of the 3.875's and make it 421 ci with a 4.155 bore.
On anything over about 370 ci I would look into heads a little larger like even the Victor Jr's
On anything over about 370 ci I would look into heads a little larger like even the Victor Jr's
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,112
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From: Peoria IL
Originally Posted by Scott Marzahl
Greg, have you considered just stroking the 327 to a 383 with one of the Speed-o-motive small journal kits?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,130
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From: mesa,az
well, i want to run around with the 327 i built for it in there until it is time to do the engine swap. if i build a 383 with the originial engine i will pretty much have to replace everything except the block anyhow. i just keep that in the corner for when the car is eventually sold. If i put in the blown 489 i have sitting in the other corner i'd tear up the car and i don't want to do that . i can build on a new block and pretty much have a complete engine before i DC the one in the car. as for heads, well i just got this PM from a guy on another site and i guess i will take him up on it.
"I have a set of heads here if you are interested...GMPP Phase 6 aluminum Bow-Tie's...fully ported (285cfm intake), 2.055" int & 1.600" exh, new bronze guides, freshly surfaced...needs fresh valvejob and guides honed. $525 TYD for the pair "
"I have a set of heads here if you are interested...GMPP Phase 6 aluminum Bow-Tie's...fully ported (285cfm intake), 2.055" int & 1.600" exh, new bronze guides, freshly surfaced...needs fresh valvejob and guides honed. $525 TYD for the pair "
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 993
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From: Iowa
I would not get too carried away on the heads for this unless you are looking for that kind of performance. The RPM heads will get you 6000; you just will not be tearing the rear end out of it at that engine speed. Just remember the bowtie stuff is all 18* if I remember right, so they will need a shaft rocker system to work and if you are going shaft why not go really big heads for some serious power like a brodix 15* or something. Just my thoughts since I have raced them both with big and little heads. Hope this helps out.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,130
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From: mesa,az
the phase six heads are an older design before the rolled the valves by my research. Still i am looking at this as hard as i can. i would like 500 HP at the crank. i figure i can run that thru my TKO and stock rear with the skinny tires back there without tearing stuff up..
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 993
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From: Iowa
You're right the phase six heads are 23*. These are an ok head that would get you to 500hp. Just verify that they are in good shape and that there has not been any previous damage. For the money that would be the best way to go. Spend the money you saved on some high quality bottom end parts and maybe a stroker crank. I have run these engines in everything from race to street so if you have any questions post them or pm me. Hope I can help you out.
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 894
Likes: 91
Originally Posted by Deakins
You're right the phase six heads are 23*. These are an ok head that would get you to 500hp. Just verify that they are in good shape and that there has not been any previous damage. For the money that would be the best way to go. Spend the money you saved on some high quality bottom end parts and maybe a stroker crank. I have run these engines in everything from race to street so if you have any questions post them or pm me. Hope I can help you out.
However, below you can see an example of a recently delivered unit tested on 93 AND with only 406 C.I.'s. We made 580/523 easily. We weren't even "chasing" horsepower here due to the fact the unit will be back in August/September to be made into a "blown" one. It actually has what some would consider all the "wrong" parts inside. It's got 235 Pro-Toplines on top, a 4500 Holley, 2.000" primaries, AND an "ancient" Blue-Racer solid roller. Not only that, it's got a 10.00 (nylon) timing set turning the "stick", which is worth some add'l HP upstairs. Thanks, Gary in N.Y.
P.S. This was basically a "backwards" build due to my customer. Originally it was to be blown, that change to single 4 barrel and has been delivered that way. As I said above, it'll be back later in the seaon. He's waiting for Englishtown to start!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 993
Likes: 3
From: Iowa
Sure they can; sprint car engines have been hitting 850 on alky with 23* heads for a while now. The point was when trying to make that kind of power with 23* heads the engine becomes peaky. They will make 700hp at 8000 and not a lot of tq anywhere else. We see this in sprint car engines that make 850+hp with 23* heads. We always want to change them over to the 2000 series or 12X12's not because they make a few more hp but instead because they gain a ton of tq everywhere else. If you have the money the newer technology is the way to go but for the street 406 in question those phase 6 heads will be plenty for him. HP is all about RPM so when talking performance we always talk tq on our race engines.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 894
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RPM Range
Just to clear up some info in my earlier post, we are nowhere near the 8000 RPM range with any of these pump-gas units. Everyone is in the "peak" area of 6500 RPM, give or take a 100. The 468" SB that made 732+ on 93 peaked at 6600. The torque numbers were decent also, I just don't have them in front of me at the moment. We "shoot" for the 6500 RPM number on almost all the 93 octane units we build. It's just the way we laid out the program, we have many customers that don't want to be bothered with "fuel"! Thanks, Gary in N.Y.
P.S. We're still talking the 23 degree units here. The 468" SB above is NOT a 23 degree unit but as I said we have number of them (23's) out running. And we CAN do 750 on 93 with the 23's at the 6600 RPM number. This we know from tests. The 406" SB in the above post is being driven almost daily, depending on the weather, as is the 468" also being driven daily! I'm kind of thankful not too many people are asking prices up here though. Some of these "high-end" units we're talking
"telephone numbers" here.
P.S. We're still talking the 23 degree units here. The 468" SB above is NOT a 23 degree unit but as I said we have number of them (23's) out running. And we CAN do 750 on 93 with the 23's at the 6600 RPM number. This we know from tests. The 406" SB in the above post is being driven almost daily, depending on the weather, as is the 468" also being driven daily! I'm kind of thankful not too many people are asking prices up here though. Some of these "high-end" units we're talking
"telephone numbers" here.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,112
Likes: 2
From: Peoria IL
Originally Posted by GOSFAST
P.S. We're still talking the 23 degree units here. The 468" SB above is NOT a 23 degree unit but as I said we have number of them (23's) out running. And we CAN do 750 on 93 with the 23's at the 6600 RPM number. This we know from tests. The 406" SB in the above post is being driven almost daily, depending on the weather, as is the 468" also being driven daily! I'm kind of thankful not too many people are asking prices up here though. Some of these "high-end" units we're talking
"telephone numbers" here.
And how in the hell did we get so far off topic, the guy just wants a 500hp big inch small block. Thats not rocket science. I also don't understand your constant need to toot your own horn by telling us about how many 700 and 800hp SBCs your've built, they are rarely relavent to the topic that the rest of us are discussing.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,339
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From: Seattle Area WA
Heads
Greg,
I would just make sure they weren't angle milled that would affect your intake manifold matchup. You just have to mill the intake to match.
That's the problem I had when I bought a used set of Brownfields (now AFR) from a sprint car shop. We also found that they had been welded on due to a broken rod but it was an excellent repair.
I would just make sure they weren't angle milled that would affect your intake manifold matchup. You just have to mill the intake to match.
That's the problem I had when I bought a used set of Brownfields (now AFR) from a sprint car shop. We also found that they had been welded on due to a broken rod but it was an excellent repair.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,126
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From: WI
If you or anyone else is interested I have the 406" out of my road race car I am willing to sell (relatively) cheap....GM Bowtie race block, Cola crank, Oliver rods, JE pistons, Brodix/Clements aluminum heads, T&D/Gaerte rocker shafts, Ultradyne roller cam, Jarvis epoxied Holley strip dominator intake, etc $5500 owns it, maybe 500 miles since freshened up....redvetracr
