That is incorrect. A solid lifter has NO pump inside if it. There are two types of valve train oiling via Chevy solid lifters. One is "edge orifice oiling", and the other uses a "piddle valve". Neither lifter has, or acts as, an oil pump.



Really? Do you run your solid lifters at zero lash?




That is all I have the energy for this morning.

RACE ON!!!

 

A valve can't pump nor a can an orifice. But anyone with a brain larger than a pinhead can see that the (solid) lifter does infact provide a pumping action to force flow oil up the p-rod to the rocker assembly. And the point i made was that the oil flow up the p-rod was not pressuerized from the dist driven oil pump (through the oil galleys) but from the lifter itself - but i now read that someone remains clueless as usual. At least he found the right lifter nomenclature - he probly had too good a time researching names of lifter parts and wants to act like he might understand them too.

And the vlv does still see full lobe lift on a solid cam/lifter - while a hyd looses lift due to pre-load and leak-down. You always have to subtract lash from the advertized lift to find the actual lift. If u don't know that and assume advertized lift is used to compare a solid cam to a hyd u ain't worth the effort to explain why. Yes save your energy for shopping a solid cam using full lift values - u gonna need it.

cardo0

 

cardo0 - with all due respect, a lifter does not have a pump in it, whether it is solid or hydraulic. Man, when I read your first post I thought you were kidding or being sarcastic. The pulsating oil squirt you are seeing at the rocker arm you are mistaking for a piston type pumping action. And the term "anti-pump up" used to describe a hydraulic lifter doesn't imply the lifter has a pump in it either. You are making assumptions based on your observations and what you read.

You should get your facts straight before you start expounding on how things work, and especially before you get derogatory toward others about it.

Dan

 

NOW you have made a correct statement. Also, a lifter can't pump, either. Because it has no pump, inside. Are the pumps in YOUR lifters belt driven? Gear driven? How?

Your foolish rantings are entertaining. I have read similar fiction from you in the past. You are exactly 100%, 180°, wrong about the lifter, pumping oil, up the push rod and that the oil pressure in the push rod isn't DIRECTLY provided by the camshaft driven oil pump in the oil pan... Because it IS.

It is interesting that YOU recognize the names of the lifters, that you wish I had to look up, to know. If you had known them YOU would have used them in your initial work of fiction. I wouldn't be throwing around accusations like "clueless" or commenting on brain sizes, if I had written some of the foolishness you have, including your "lifter pump" fabrication.


So you run YOUR solid lifters at ZERO lash?

So WHICH is it? ORBefore you decide to tell me (and the world) how wrong I am, you'd best figure out which side of your mouth you are going to spout falsehoods out of. No fair switching sides in the middle of a rant.



And speaking of a waste of effots...

RACE ON!!!

 

Ok Dan, I made a google search and only found a pix of an Isky solid lifter which uses a Fluttering Type oil metering vlv. Take a look at http://www.iskycams.com/racingcamseries.php. This oil metering vlv is as good as a pump to me as it precisely controls oil flow to the rocker arms. This oil output is not at oil pump or oil galley press. To me this is a pumping action as the solid lifter is controling the oil flow - not the dist driven pump which only fills the lifter with oil.

Thx for your curtious reply Dan and i hope u can consider this reply as a constructive debate. But i really don't the have time to keep defending every post that i try to help someone with from the obsesed fault finding attacks of others that provide no useful explainations.

Have a good holiday weekend, i will.
cardo0

 

I believe the "lash ramps" on hydraulics and solids are different when the cams are ground.... Among other things that have been quoted in the thread.

THinking outside the box can be good but in this case dont mix and match. Lots of R&D goes into these parts to make them work with eachother approproately.
Im outta here, its getting a little steamy

If you are looking for a cheap retrofit roller lifter (hyd.) C.A.T. sells some for $152 per set. I havent used them personally but Ive used thier lower end parts with no problems.

 

cardo0 - Thanks for the reply. You are confusing concepts here. Look at it this way. The distributor driven oil pump "produces" or "creates" the oil flow. The metering valve in the lifter "restricts" or limits the amount of oil flow, which is produced by the distributor driven oil pump, that can get to the rocker arm. It "precisely controls oil flow to the rocker arms" by restricting it, not by creating oil flow.

And thanks for the cheers - same to you!

Dan

 

It may be as good as a pump, TO YOU, but it isn't a pump regardless of what it is, as good as, in your mind. Valves do many different things. They shut off and turn on flow, they can be check valves, they can be metering valves, and many other things. But a valve can't be a pump.



Constructive or otherwise, there IS no debate. A lifter has no pump. Period! There is nothing TO debate. There is no help provided when the main premise of the post is just plain false. You won't have to waste any time defending that post because there is no defense. If you are tired of being corrected, try posting something factual. I have seen many of your posts that are nothing but pure fiction. How can one provide "useful explainations" for the fantasies of another. I named the two types of solid lifters Chevy uses. I cannot explain how the pump that isn't there, works. Pull your head out and provide REAL information if you want to help someone. False information can only serve to lead someone in the wrong direction in search of a solution.

RACE ON!!!

 

Hello Dan,
Well yes, the concepts are confusing as others have also posted. Like that Isky lifter meters precise oil press at all rpm. So what does it do at low rpm and low oil press? Maybe pump? Maybe not? I just don't think enough information of the full dynamics is availible. And the edge orifice type uses the volume change between the lifter bore and lifter body as the lifter moves up and down the lifter bore to "meter oil" - very piston pump like while again the full dynamics of this were not explained and true oil pressurizing action debatible.

Well i made an effort, read the Chevy Power Manual to find it descripes it only as "metering" and that well may be the correct nomenclature but all others had failed to post this as a metering until i did in post #25. Also the manual does not explain the lifter oiling dynamics fully. Clutchdust and Gerorge touched on theese dynamics before. The triggering of the "metered" oil in spurts that travel up the p-rod into/around the engine compartment and sometimes onto my shirt is not a constant flow. But yes my guess is the lifter motion over ther cam ramp is the controlling mechanisim.

As i originaly posted i didn't recall the name of these "tiny pumps" but now that i realize the actual term is "meters" i would have have to call them "tiny metering valves". And no-one mentioned metering untill i took the time to look it up with meerly a Google search. Big deal, tiny metering valve or tiny pump, this wouldn't make a college proffessor blink. No, i won't research the full dynamics of the lifters oil metering as it is now apparent how the job gets done and the end reason for this - enough. This becomes a federal case because some crazed and frustrated fault finding fanactic just Can't Find It!
Someone with a pinhead sized brain and just a needle at the other end still thinks a solid cam's lash is lost lift is just soo frustrated, Can't Find It, and doesn't warrent the effort for explaination. Maybe a sorry, sour, unemployed rocket scientist has time and energy for these fault finding missions but i don't. I don't want to/won't waste time researching flapper vlvs dynamics for someone that can't even figure actual lift values.

Again enjoy a nice weekend.
cardo0

 

If "the concepts are confusing", or if you "don't think enough information of the full dynamics is availible.", then it is time to go back to hydraulics 101. Very simply, pumps create flow. Valves alter existing flow. Valves can prevent back flow (check valves) start or stop flow, meter flow, and any number of other functions. A valve, even if you just turn a valve on, doesn't create the flow you see. The flow is created by the pump and the valve simply allows the flow to pass. Dynamics, my butt. You are just trying to confuse and muddle a couple of extremely basic and simple principles with meaningless, and inappropriate dialog.




You made an effort at what? An effort AFTER you incorrectly stated that Chevy solid lifters pump, to CYA, by looking for a back up? Didn't find it, did you. If you had gone to that effort BEFORE you shot your mouth off, we wouldn't be in this discussion.




A metering valve meters flow. A pump creates flow. With no pump, there is nothing for the metering valve to meter. The metering valve is not a pump, it will not create flow. See what your "college proffessor" or better yet automotive engineer says when you advise him that you are going to use a metering valve in place of the oil pump in the engine you are building. Then get back to us and let us know how that works out, an engine with no oil pump.




Apparent to most of us, but it isn't apparent that YOU understand it.




Your name calling is most inappropriate. It shows your frustration with your lack of knowledge on the subject. Most of that you accuse me of, was committed by YOU. It was YOU that claimed that the lifter pumps, when in fact, it doesn't. Fault finding? Yes. I saw a post that was 100% wrong, and I let the forum know, so they wouldn't be mislead by the fantasy of someone trying to explain, incorrectly, how things work. Does that make me crazed? I don't think so. Did I make a "federal case" out of it? No, that was you, who wouldn't do his homework, even AFTER being corrected. "Frustrated fault finding fanactic"? I admit it DOES drive me a little nuts when I see the totally false statements of the ignorant and misinformed, that can only serve to mislead the individuals that start threads seeking information. Is it really "fault finding"? Maybe, but it surely isn't nit picking when I correct someone that says black is white.




But you DO have the "time and energy" to make 100% false statements. You don't need to "researching flapper vlvs dynamics" for MY benefit. I understand them. What you don't have, is the time to research support for your absolutely wrong and unsupportable statement. THAT would be a never ending project. And I certainly DO know how to figure valve lifts.

Your family has my sincere condolences.

RACE ON!!!

 

Please take the pissin' match offline.