redvetrcr- another dry sump question
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 5,877
Likes: 1
From: Park Ridge IL
redvetrcr- another dry sump question
You mentioned in the other thread that you sent some pictures, I never got any. my email is monty_williams@yahoo.com or monty.williams@caremark.com.
Where do you have your dry sump pump located, left or right side? Does the pump fit underneath the engine mount? If you have any pictures of your mounted pump, I'd appreciate it. I'm going to go with either a 3 or 4 stage Barnes dry sump pump, and just want to make sure it will fit . It looks like a tight fir around the motor mount and rear of the lower a-arm, and steering linkage.
Thanks!
Where do you have your dry sump pump located, left or right side? Does the pump fit underneath the engine mount? If you have any pictures of your mounted pump, I'd appreciate it. I'm going to go with either a 3 or 4 stage Barnes dry sump pump, and just want to make sure it will fit . It looks like a tight fir around the motor mount and rear of the lower a-arm, and steering linkage.
Thanks!
Race Director
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,126
Likes: 174
From: WI
Re: redvetrcr- another dry sump question (Monty)
Monty,
I sent you a pic of my dry sump tank, i will try it again. Pump is mounted on left. Generally they mount off the two (unused) holes on the front of the motor which puts the pump in front of the motor mount,that is why a notch has to be cut in the front crossmember. I do not think a 4 stage will fit. Sorry i don`t have a digital. ...redvetracr
PS: I may have a pic of a pump on someone else`s car. If i do i will send it.
I sent you a pic of my dry sump tank, i will try it again. Pump is mounted on left. Generally they mount off the two (unused) holes on the front of the motor which puts the pump in front of the motor mount,that is why a notch has to be cut in the front crossmember. I do not think a 4 stage will fit. Sorry i don`t have a digital. ...redvetracr
PS: I may have a pic of a pump on someone else`s car. If i do i will send it.
Pro
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: SLC, UT USA
Re: redvetrcr- another dry sump question (redvetracr)
Here is a pic of how I mounted a dry sump pump, nothing special, just used standard brackets and parts.
http://www.corvetteforum.net/c3/dsag...ont01Front.jpg
and
http://www.corvetteforum.net/c3/dsag...k/Rodeck05.jpg
[Modified by dsagers, 10:50 PM 10/29/2001]
http://www.corvetteforum.net/c3/dsag...ont01Front.jpg
and
http://www.corvetteforum.net/c3/dsag...k/Rodeck05.jpg
[Modified by dsagers, 10:50 PM 10/29/2001]
Race Director
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,126
Likes: 174
From: WI
Re: redvetrcr- another dry sump question (dsagers)
David,
I am curious if the motor and especially that oil pump and pan, have been in a Corvette chassis yet, without a modified front crossmember ? And are you using a "stock' style motor mount?
...redvetracr
I am curious if the motor and especially that oil pump and pan, have been in a Corvette chassis yet, without a modified front crossmember ? And are you using a "stock' style motor mount?
...redvetracr
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 5,877
Likes: 1
From: Park Ridge IL
Re: redvetrcr- another dry sump question (redvetracr)
Thanks. I understand how they are mounted, I was just trying to ensure that it fits as I was visualizing it. How much does the front crossmember have to be notched? The motors already in the car and the frame has been stripped and refinished, so I'm not too keen on cutting it up.
I agree that a 3 stage would be sufficient. My top end is restricted down to .125" already, and the front, rear, and lifter valley drains are open and radiused. Even with the high volume billet Titan wet sump pump, I wasn't having any problems with drainback. So I definitely don't think I need to evacuate the lifter valley with a 4th stage. Plus I'd like to keep it as simple as possible. I already have to run an external oil filter, since the block doesn't have a pad, so adding a couple of extra hoses is not big deal.
I was looking at the Barnes pumps, but am aware of Weaver, Johnson, Stock Car Products, and Moroso as other manufacturers of high quality dry sump pumps. Do you ahve any recommendations? Obviously, I don't need a pump that's going to pull 15" of vacuum, my priority is relaibility and ease of installation. So if one manufacturer offers a pump with smaller dimimensions, that would be a key consideration.
I agree that a 3 stage would be sufficient. My top end is restricted down to .125" already, and the front, rear, and lifter valley drains are open and radiused. Even with the high volume billet Titan wet sump pump, I wasn't having any problems with drainback. So I definitely don't think I need to evacuate the lifter valley with a 4th stage. Plus I'd like to keep it as simple as possible. I already have to run an external oil filter, since the block doesn't have a pad, so adding a couple of extra hoses is not big deal.
I was looking at the Barnes pumps, but am aware of Weaver, Johnson, Stock Car Products, and Moroso as other manufacturers of high quality dry sump pumps. Do you ahve any recommendations? Obviously, I don't need a pump that's going to pull 15" of vacuum, my priority is relaibility and ease of installation. So if one manufacturer offers a pump with smaller dimimensions, that would be a key consideration.
Drifting
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,329
Likes: 12
Re: redvetrcr- another dry sump question (Monty)
I'm just being curious here... whats the difference between a dry and wet pump? I know one is in the pan and the other belt driven but is that the only difference?
Race Director
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,126
Likes: 174
From: WI
Re: redvetrcr- another dry sump question (Monty)
Monty,
I know you like to buy "new" but my Weaver pump is off a second race car i bought a few years ago, i rebuilt it for about $7. Weaver bros and Stock Car products are identical,the old Moroso i got in a parts deal a few years ago(and sold) seemed kind of crude, i like the Barnes stuff also. With the fairly new CNC technology, almost anyone ( with skil of course) can be in the pump business. I would buy from a company that has been around a while so you can get replacement parts when you need them (and you will). Being aluminum the gear bodies do wear some and trash does go through them,a chipped gear is NOT uncommon! ...redvetracr
I know you like to buy "new" but my Weaver pump is off a second race car i bought a few years ago, i rebuilt it for about $7. Weaver bros and Stock Car products are identical,the old Moroso i got in a parts deal a few years ago(and sold) seemed kind of crude, i like the Barnes stuff also. With the fairly new CNC technology, almost anyone ( with skil of course) can be in the pump business. I would buy from a company that has been around a while so you can get replacement parts when you need them (and you will). Being aluminum the gear bodies do wear some and trash does go through them,a chipped gear is NOT uncommon! ...redvetracr
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 5,877
Likes: 1
From: Park Ridge IL
Re: redvetrcr- another dry sump question (Lohkay)
Basically, that's the main difference. Additionally, with a dry sump system the oil is contained in a remote tank, not in the oil pan, so you don't have windage issues and it can free up some power. You can also easily adjust your oil pressure.
In racing engines, there can be as much as a 30hp or more difference between a dry and a wet sump. Dry sumps are also more reliable in that the oil flow is more constant, especially in drag and road racing , where launches, hard braking, hard cornering can expose the pickip or aerate the oil. Since the cam isn't driving the oil pump, spark scatter and distributor/cam gear is eliminated.
Of course, dry sumps are more expensive and require external lines, tanks, pumps, filters, etc. So it can get cumbersome. It's definitely not something that is typically needed. In my case, I've got some issues with distributor gear wear since i have to use a bronze distributor gear, and the power that I am running could present problems with a wet sump .
In racing engines, there can be as much as a 30hp or more difference between a dry and a wet sump. Dry sumps are also more reliable in that the oil flow is more constant, especially in drag and road racing , where launches, hard braking, hard cornering can expose the pickip or aerate the oil. Since the cam isn't driving the oil pump, spark scatter and distributor/cam gear is eliminated.
Of course, dry sumps are more expensive and require external lines, tanks, pumps, filters, etc. So it can get cumbersome. It's definitely not something that is typically needed. In my case, I've got some issues with distributor gear wear since i have to use a bronze distributor gear, and the power that I am running could present problems with a wet sump .
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Corvette Engines RANKED by Peak Torque (70+ Years of Muscle!)
Joe Kucinski
Corvette ZR1X Will Be Pacing the Indy 500, And Could Probably Race, Too!
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Corvettes Coming to Mecum Indy 2026!
Brett Foote
Top 10 C9 Corvette MUST-HAVES to Fix These C8 Generation Flaws!
Michael S. Palmer
10 Revolutionary 'Corvette Firsts' Most People Don't Know
Joe Kucinski
5 Reasons to Upgrade to an LS6-Powered Corvette; 5 Reasons to Stay LT2
Michael S. Palmer
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 5,877
Likes: 1
From: Park Ridge IL
Re: redvetrcr- another dry sump question (Lohkay)
Yes you could run a shallower pan, since you're not using the sump as a reservoir, but you still want it to be deep enough that the oil stays away from the crank as it runs back down and gets scavenged. Also, since you don't have to provide room for the oil pump and pickup in the sump, the windage screen can be full length.
Dsagers,
Is this the engine that you were trying to sell last summer? If so, I recall that it is a very nice motor. I hope everything worked out okay - you mentioned you were selling it for health reasons. If you kept it, did you install it in a Vette?
[Modified by Monty, 11:58 AM 10/30/2001]
Dsagers,
Is this the engine that you were trying to sell last summer? If so, I recall that it is a very nice motor. I hope everything worked out okay - you mentioned you were selling it for health reasons. If you kept it, did you install it in a Vette?
[Modified by Monty, 11:58 AM 10/30/2001]
Race Director
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,126
Likes: 174
From: WI
Re: redvetrcr- another dry sump question (Monty)
Monty & David,
In my car it is the oil pump pulley that would be the problem (actually both my cars have notched cross members), my drive is the old road race style with two cog belts and one off the water pump to the alternator no V belts. ...redvetracr
In my car it is the oil pump pulley that would be the problem (actually both my cars have notched cross members), my drive is the old road race style with two cog belts and one off the water pump to the alternator no V belts. ...redvetracr
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,366
Likes: 34
Re: redvetrcr- another dry sump question (Monty)
Something that I was wondering about.
How long does the typiceal dry sump pump last?
Do they suffer any problems if they are trying to pump oil out of, say a valve cover, but there is no oil to suck out. Would this ruin a pump, or is it fine?
How long does the typiceal dry sump pump last?
Do they suffer any problems if they are trying to pump oil out of, say a valve cover, but there is no oil to suck out. Would this ruin a pump, or is it fine?
Race Director
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,126
Likes: 174
From: WI
Re: redvetrcr- another dry sump question (bill mcdonald)
Bill,
As it was explained to many years ago by Jerry Weaver of Weaver bros. The "scavenge" stages are basically air pumps gulping both oil and air, so no damage would occur, he also said those gear bodies and gears themselves do not have to be perfect.The "pressure" stage is where the oil and (hopefully) only oil is pumped, those parts need to be in almost perfect condition.
...redvetracr
PS: To answer you, pumps can be rebuilt (cheaply) and all parts are replaceable. Generally only "big chunks" destroy pumps.
[Modified by redvetracr, 2:04 PM 10/30/2001]
As it was explained to many years ago by Jerry Weaver of Weaver bros. The "scavenge" stages are basically air pumps gulping both oil and air, so no damage would occur, he also said those gear bodies and gears themselves do not have to be perfect.The "pressure" stage is where the oil and (hopefully) only oil is pumped, those parts need to be in almost perfect condition.
...redvetracr
PS: To answer you, pumps can be rebuilt (cheaply) and all parts are replaceable. Generally only "big chunks" destroy pumps.
[Modified by redvetracr, 2:04 PM 10/30/2001]
Pro
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: SLC, UT USA
Re: redvetrcr- another dry sump question (Monty)
Monty
Yes this is the one. It was professionally built and assembled. Alum Rodeck block & Brodix Heads. This was built to be the last one I put in the Vette, so it has to be the best in order to last. I can't wait to fire her up!!
I found a guy to help and do some of the things I can no longer do. Like crawl under the car and lay on cold cement for long periods of time.
Yes this is the one. It was professionally built and assembled. Alum Rodeck block & Brodix Heads. This was built to be the last one I put in the Vette, so it has to be the best in order to last. I can't wait to fire her up!!
I found a guy to help and do some of the things I can no longer do. Like crawl under the car and lay on cold cement for long periods of time.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 5,877
Likes: 1
From: Park Ridge IL
Re: redvetrcr- another dry sump question (dsagers)
From what I remember, there's no doubt you built a very impressive engine, that's why I immediately recognized it. There are very few motors like ours that people put in street cars.
I'm glad to hear that you'll be able to enjoy it yourself. I know how much time, money, and effort goes into planning, building and paying for a motor like that.
Now if only I could find someone who would be willing to climb under my car and lay on cold, hard cement for long periods of time ;).
I'm glad to hear that you'll be able to enjoy it yourself. I know how much time, money, and effort goes into planning, building and paying for a motor like that.
Now if only I could find someone who would be willing to climb under my car and lay on cold, hard cement for long periods of time ;).