Has anyone done a back to back emissions test switching from a stock ignition to an MSD one?

If so, did any of the numbers change?

TIA

 

If the engine is stock enough to pass emissions, and the stock ignition system is in good shape, the MSD won't, can't, provide anything the stock ignition doesn't. Any coil only puts out the voltage, up to it's maximum capability, necessary to jump the plug gap. No smog test comes even close to stressing the limits of the stock ignition. Especially, the HEI has a pretty high voltage capability. High performance ignition systems can be important under extremely high cylinder pressures and at high RPMs, again, not a part of a smog test. Most hi perf ignition up grades, especially on a DD, are a waste of money. All show, No go.

RACE ON!!!

 

That's what I have always believed. But if the claims on the MSD site are true then the stock ignition is dumping unburnt gas into the cats. I couldn't get past this point. Why would the general put out cars such as the ZR1 and the Z06 with an ignition system that wasn't going to give the car the best perfomance? Certainly the GM engineers read car magazines.

So I believe that MSD actually robs power. It weighs more than stock. It consumes more electricity than stock. And that power isn't free. It means that the alt will be working harder with an MSD installed.

High pressure in the cylindars? What would you consider high? Like anything in the 12.5:1 area? It may be a case of apples and oranges but when I was into SAAB's there were several people running 10-12 pounds of boost with the stock ignition. And they seemed to run just fine.

High RPMs? So what's high? My car is rev-limited at 5,700 RPM I think. But with extensive mods or a NASCAR engine it still would only be doing 9,000 RPM. Again it may be apples and oranges but inline four cylindar bikes rev into the 14,000 RPM range with tiny ignition systems.

Because I don't understand it or believe it doesn't make MSD a fraud. The reason I specifically asked if any of the emission gases changed it because those would be objective and because the MSD site claims that it makes your car cleaner burning.

There is one thing I would say about the MSD thing. If someone is going to the trouble of installing one properly then he is much more likely to maintain his car better than the average K-car owner.

<edit>As for the "show" yeah the little red box can look cool as long as it isn't accompanied by hack job wires.</edit>

 

I don't have specific numbers for cylinder pressures. I do know that when the cylinder pressures are higher, it takes more voltage to jump the plug gap. The 12.5:1 compression can provide a wide range of cylinder pressures, depending on the duration of the camshaft. There is no question that the voltage requirements increase as boost is applied.

5700 RPMs isn't high. I shift my stock Crossfire at 6000 - 6200 RPMs with a totally factory HEI. The 9000 RPM NASCAR engine has both engine speed and cylinder pressures working against the ignition system. As the revs go up, there is less dwell time to saturate the coil. But your 14000 RPM 4 cylinder bike only has to produce the same number of sparks as a V8 turning 7000 RPMs. I have a friend that ran a 10 second Cameo on alcohol, shifting at 8000 RPMs with an HEI using a hi perf module and coil. I admit, that is pushing it, but the good ol' HEI has more guts than most give it credit for. The newer "coil on plug" ignition systems eliminate the coil saturation time problem.

You asked for real world results and I gave you general theory and non-specific personal experience. I will sit back, watch, and hope you get answers to your back to back test results question.

 

CFI-EFI,
I always enjoy reading your posts. It's like reading a Helms with a bit of real world thrown in.

I didn't mean for my post to take on any confrontationaly tone. I truly don't understand the desire for the upgraded ignition in mostly stock cars.

Last weekend a friend bought an MSD setup for his stock LS1 TransAm. I asked him why and he just pointed me to the MSD website.

I'm not too proud by any means to admit it when I don't understand something. And I'm grateful for your input.

To quote something a guru once said to me: "Race on!"

 

CFI-EFI is on the money. Save your money.
Regarding emissions, or combustion quality, my money is on a high energy, long spark duration inductive system, rather than a bunch of low energy, time delayed sparks. The GM powertrain guys aren't fools. If they could get a "free" reduction in emissions just by putting on a CD system, you bet they would figure out a way to use it. But, CD systems are usually bigger, heavier, and do not put out the same energy as an inductive system. And, most, if not all the aftermarket CD systems are built using printed circuit boards. These are no where near as robust and reliable as the factory ignition systems. (Most GM systems are high temperature ceramic based.) And, did you ever notice that a lot of the roundy round guys have two, not one, of these CD systems on their car. Doesn't sound like they have too much confidence in the reliability of the system.

 

Thanks for the input, 69427.

I'll keep saving my money that would otherwise go to an MSD. I've made it about ten years now with a 'Vette and no MSD. I've been aware of them all the while but never convinced.

If I stay off the cancer sticks for six more months I'll buy a new interior. I don't see any reason that my '94 won't last me as long as I need a car (God willing, that will be another 30 years or so.)

 

i may have missed it, but what is the configuration that you are working with?

hei is a pretty good 'ignition', on a dd they (msd) won't provide much beyond 'multiple' spark and those benefits are debateable as well, however, on more radical builds msd ignitions will provide some improvement over 'stock' parts.

 

Thanks for checking in, Zig. My interest was not in a specific build. I just wanted to see the emissions test before and after on a car with and without MSD. I don't believe their claim about "clearner burning" but I won't argue with the numbers if someone has them.

 

hey, no prob. i suspect you will most likely only be able to get 'emissions' reports/details from msd.

 

Thank you. And I didn't take it as being confrontational. While writing my second post, I realized what you had asked for and that I hadn't contributed any test results. *I*, too would be interested in seeing the same thing.

One problem with such a test, is that someone apt to install a hi perf ignition to pass a smog test, has likely has failed the test with the stock ignition. Then, one must wonder, how bad were the stock components and what test results would have come from a stock system in good shape?

RACE ON!!!

 

the hei system stock that is . will put out plenty of spark my self am running a gm duel point out of a 62 fuel injection with centrifical force advance an chevy called for hotter spark so thare for am running msd hot coil and could tell the difference from one to the other but with a hei im sure it would put out plenty of spark. myself i like the duel point set up but if i went to a 7a spark box msd said to unhook one set of points will mess with the box well now i have rambled on. to much knowledge not enough sense

 

MSD ignition boxes and distributors have their place on race engines for many good reasons. On a true daily driver, nah; but some dd's and hot rods are pushing things pretty far and the aftermarket stuff can help them get tuned out and some drivability back. But yeah on anything remotely stock, you don't need it.