ZL1 short block/crate motor?
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2001
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ZL1 short block/crate motor?
Hey all--
With the re-emmergence of the ZL1 aluminum block, I was wondering if any shops or companies out there were offering a ZL1 crate motor or even a short block. I would like to lean towards the short block since I plan to use the GM fuel injection setup that comes on the ZZ502. I am researching engine buildups for a new project I want to start soon, and I am finding out that this route will be similarly priced if not cheaper than an LS1-based motor. Thanks for the input!
With the re-emmergence of the ZL1 aluminum block, I was wondering if any shops or companies out there were offering a ZL1 crate motor or even a short block. I would like to lean towards the short block since I plan to use the GM fuel injection setup that comes on the ZZ502. I am researching engine buildups for a new project I want to start soon, and I am finding out that this route will be similarly priced if not cheaper than an LS1-based motor. Thanks for the input!
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 797
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Re: ZL1 short block/crate motor? (Vetteboy)
Scoggin-Dickey has it advertised on their site for $4999, so yeah right at 5K. The LS1 block isn't nearly that much, but when you begin adding up parts for a well-above-stock buildup, the LS1 quickly closes this gap. Combine that with more custom fabrication to fit it into a C2, and that gap is even slimmer. I could be wrong, but I feel that the ZL1 would make more power at a comparable cost to a built LS1. What's more, Iwas thinking that if someone offered a "package" deal with a ZL1 block, it might be a bit more affordable (or less expensive, rather). As always, I welcome comments as I could very well be off on this one.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 683
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From: Calgary
Re: ZL1 short block/crate motor? (Last Ride)
PAW sells an aluminum big block (427 ci). The short block is $7099 and the long block (Edelbrock rpm heads) for $8995. For extra money they can build it up to 510 cubic inches.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,112
Likes: 2
From: Peoria IL
Re: ZL1 short block/crate motor? (74vetteman)
I dunno yall. Take your cost for an LS1 and 3k for a good heads and cam package and you can expect 480-500hp, the LS6s with heads and cam are making 520+. So I'd figure your 9 grand ZL1 long block isn't making much over 600hp if its still a 427, and thats without any induction system! Plan for another 2k atleast for your injection setup on the BBC. Nearly any LS1/6 will come with come complete ready to run, that long block could be missing vavle covers and ignition too, both things the LS will come with. Then consider also that the LS1 will most likely be decent amount lighter than the aluminum BBC, and the LS swap will be emissions legal if your worried about such things.
The LS1 could also be found used if your really budget conscious, good luck finding a ZL1 used, as there were less than 100 put in production cars:eek:
Now the drawbacks to the LS1 will be the installation costs which I don't know off the top of my head, but I would say that with the 5k saved by going with LS over the BBC you could work those problems out.
The LS1 could also be found used if your really budget conscious, good luck finding a ZL1 used, as there were less than 100 put in production cars:eek:
Now the drawbacks to the LS1 will be the installation costs which I don't know off the top of my head, but I would say that with the 5k saved by going with LS over the BBC you could work those problems out.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,805
Likes: 36
From: Annapolis MD
Re: ZL1 short block/crate motor? (Last Ride)
Check racesearch.com. They list a World aluminum BBC crate motor at 509 and 540 inches. I'd cal BIll Michel (who builds WOrlds crate motors) and ask him what he could put together using their aluminum block and heads.
-Greg
-Greg
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Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 797
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Re: ZL1 short block/crate motor? (MassVette)
I did some checking around, went to racesearch.com and looked ovre the World Casting and Bill Mitchell offerings. Their Big Block weighs in at 150 pounds; 40 pounds heavier than the ZL1 block. Just out of curiousity, would this 40 pounds make a great deal of difference assuming a similar buildup? Their cost is a lot better. Well, the LS1/6 based engine holds some merit, but I don't know about getting 500 hp out of an LS1 with heads and a cam unless I make it totally unstreetable! Keep the ideas coming!
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 3,631
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From: Fountain Hills AZ
Re: ZL1 short block/crate motor? (Last Ride)
I'd sure love to have an all aluminum BB but I can't see any cost/benefit ratio there. I think you are comparing the cost of a ZL1 bare block against a complete LS1 engine. As already posted, the cost of the bare block by itself is as much as some complete BB engines. I'm a big fan of aluminum, and I really appreciate the weight reduction of my car due to aluminum components over the original iron pieces, but for almost $4,000 more than a comparable iron block, no thanks. If money were no object and being "cool" was the only goal, the ZL1 block might be worth it's cost.
Drifting
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,329
Likes: 12
Re: ZL1 short block/crate motor? (Last Ride)
Huh...I know lighter is better but the merlin aluminium BB is lighter than an iron SB so unless you really want to go crazy on the weight, I wouldn't see why you'd want a ZL1.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 5,877
Likes: 1
From: Park Ridge IL
Re: ZL1 short block/crate motor?
Unless you're a competitive racer in an organized, sacntioned racing event, or an OEM trying to save weight for fuel economy and emissions reasons, there really is no need for an aluminum block except for the cool factor. An identical iron block-based engine will always make more power than an aluminum block-based engine. The aluminum blocks simply are not as rigid as iron blocks. The main webs move around (which over the long run will results in increase main bearing wear in a high performance application), the main journal clearances have to be machined looser to account for the aluminum's higher expansion rate, but most importantly the cylinder walls are not as rigid (even with cast iron liners) and this results in poorer ring seal.
While the difference may not be significant in all applications, it becomes more significant as poweroutput and rpm increases.
Just something to consider...
While the difference may not be significant in all applications, it becomes more significant as poweroutput and rpm increases.
Just something to consider...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,112
Likes: 2
From: Peoria IL
Re: ZL1 short block/crate motor? (Monty)
If you don't believe 500hp with heads and cam, just check C5 Tech/Performance if an M6 with heads with heads and cam makes less than 400rwhp most people suspect something is up. One guy is even going 124mph in the quarter! A couple others with Z06s are putting down 440+ at the wheels, there is no denying the potential of the Gen III small blocks, and it is by far the cheapest all aluminum alternative.
The big block does also have its merits I as have mention before, but if it has to be all aluminum I wouldn't consider it unless you wanted a seriously huge number of cubes and don't really have any sort of budget.
The big block does also have its merits I as have mention before, but if it has to be all aluminum I wouldn't consider it unless you wanted a seriously huge number of cubes and don't really have any sort of budget.
Drifting
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,462
Likes: 1
From: Reno nevada
Re: ZL1 short block/crate motor? (korvetkeith)
There is some guy on this forum I think from the state of Utah that has a Rodeck block B.A. motor. I would just look in mags like National Dragster and in the back they always have exotic race motors for 1/2 of what it cost to build them.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 797
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Re: ZL1 short block/crate motor? (korvetkeith)
Oh I think the Gen III has GREAT potential. I see that MTI builds them, but for 409 CID and up, they switch over to an iron block. I am looking for 450-500 horses out of a streetable motor that might see a 100-150 shot of Nitrous a few times a year at the track. Of course, cost is an object! If it weren't, I would already have the car AND engine built! I am looking for a lighter weight trick setup for a C2 convertible. Where can I get takeout LS1/6 engines at a reasonable price? I would prefer one that has the pieces but needs a rebuild since I plan on doing that anyway. As always, thanks for the info and ideas!
