can a SBC make 500 hp?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 3,052
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver BC, Canada
can a SBC make 500 hp?
this is a pretty general question, but I am not too familiar with small blocks, say the LT1 for example.
what are the options? forced, N20, general N/A...
what are the options? forced, N20, general N/A...
Pro
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 621
Likes: 1
Re: can a SBC make 500 hp? (Turbo-Jet)
Monty's, among others, made 650HP normally aspirated. This is a 427 cubic inch engine with 18 degree heads, but it is an SBC that fits in the normal SBC space.
500HP isn't too hard. You don't even have to get the exotic heads. Normal 23 degree aftermarket heads, roller cam, and 400+ cubic inches will do it and still have reasonable street manners.
500HP isn't too hard. You don't even have to get the exotic heads. Normal 23 degree aftermarket heads, roller cam, and 400+ cubic inches will do it and still have reasonable street manners.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
From: Calgary
Re: can a SBC make 500 hp? (L79vette)
To make 500 + hp out of a sbc and retain good street manners, you are going to need cubic inches. A 383 would probably be minimum, 400+ would be better. My 406 made 476 on the dyno with a mild 222 degree duration @ .050" roller cam. On an engine the size of mine, it idles better than the stock L-82 in my old 350. 500+ hp would be as simple as going to the next size up cam.
As mentioned before, you need good heads. Air Flow Research, Dart, Canfield, and Brodix all make good heads. I run AFR 210's.
Of course if you use nitrous, or forced induction, the sky is the limit. Even on smaller displacement engines. But they better be built for the intended application.
[Modified by 74vetteman, 9:11 PM 7/13/2002]
As mentioned before, you need good heads. Air Flow Research, Dart, Canfield, and Brodix all make good heads. I run AFR 210's.
Of course if you use nitrous, or forced induction, the sky is the limit. Even on smaller displacement engines. But they better be built for the intended application.
[Modified by 74vetteman, 9:11 PM 7/13/2002]
Moderator
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 7,117
Likes: 51
From: Dove Mountain Arizona
Re: can a SBC make 500 hp? (Turbo-Jet)
Very easy to make a dependable 400 horse 350 engine, then squirt a 100 shot of NOS. Best of both worlds, a very dependable sb with good hp and manners, then flip a switch and you're off and running. :yesnod:
The ORIGINAL and bestest
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 10,009
Likes: 240
From: Toronto Ontario
Toronto Events Coordinator
Re: can a SBC make 500 hp? (MasterDave)
Okay, help me out here guys. I am having a 406 built with the following parts:
Eagle forged 3.750" stroke crank; internal balance
Eagle forged 3-D H-beam 5.7" rods
Comp Cams camshaft of yet to be determined size
Clevite bearings
Speed Pro rings
Fluidampner balancer
SRP forged pistons to yield 10 3/4:1 CR
Edelbrock Performer RPM Air-Gap intake
Edelbrock Performer RPM heads; 70cc, straight plug
Crane 1.5 roller tip rockers
Comp Cam pushrods
Headman 1-5/8" ceramic coated hedders
Dynomax Super Turbo mufflers with 2-1/2" exhaust
Holley Street Avenger 770cfm carb
MSD pro billit distributor
MSD 6-AL
MSD Blaster 2 coil
MSD plug wires
Edelbrock Victor series water pump
Be Cool rad
Spal electric fan
all this is going into a 72 coupe, with a Turbo 400, with 3:55 rear gear. I am new to using Desktop Dyno, but when I plug it all in, I am getting around 400HP and 450TQ, depending on what cam I choose. I was hoping for closer to 500HP and 500TQ. What do I need to do to achieve these numbers, or am I doing somethin wrong? My block will be bored 0.30" over, and the cams I have been playing with are Extreme Energy 262,268,274. Opinions please? Even when I change my heads, to say AFR's, the numbers don't go where I want to see them. Help!
[Modified by 7t2vette, 1:44 PM 7/14/2002]
Eagle forged 3.750" stroke crank; internal balance
Eagle forged 3-D H-beam 5.7" rods
Comp Cams camshaft of yet to be determined size
Clevite bearings
Speed Pro rings
Fluidampner balancer
SRP forged pistons to yield 10 3/4:1 CR
Edelbrock Performer RPM Air-Gap intake
Edelbrock Performer RPM heads; 70cc, straight plug
Crane 1.5 roller tip rockers
Comp Cam pushrods
Headman 1-5/8" ceramic coated hedders
Dynomax Super Turbo mufflers with 2-1/2" exhaust
Holley Street Avenger 770cfm carb
MSD pro billit distributor
MSD 6-AL
MSD Blaster 2 coil
MSD plug wires
Edelbrock Victor series water pump
Be Cool rad
Spal electric fan
all this is going into a 72 coupe, with a Turbo 400, with 3:55 rear gear. I am new to using Desktop Dyno, but when I plug it all in, I am getting around 400HP and 450TQ, depending on what cam I choose. I was hoping for closer to 500HP and 500TQ. What do I need to do to achieve these numbers, or am I doing somethin wrong? My block will be bored 0.30" over, and the cams I have been playing with are Extreme Energy 262,268,274. Opinions please? Even when I change my heads, to say AFR's, the numbers don't go where I want to see them. Help!
[Modified by 7t2vette, 1:44 PM 7/14/2002]
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,743
Likes: 37
From: Stockton Ca
Re: can a SBC make 500 hp? (7t2vette)
You have the parts for a nice "350". For 500 hp you will need more cam. If you go to a Hyd Rol and 1.6s 500 hp & 450 tq will be easy. Not having a DD I can't give the exact parts needed. I would guess 284+ on the cam. The larger engine will use the larger cam w/no problems. You might want to see about better heads for that much displacement. There are people on this forum that have more experience w/this combo. Also 3:55s w/o od is a lot of RPMs at cruising speed "3,000 @ 70 mph". JMHO.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 6,744
Likes: 1
From: delmont pa
Cruise-In I Veteran
Cruise-In II Veteran
Re: can a SBC make 500 hp? (Turbo-Jet)
sept issue of chevy high performance gives all the specs how to make 500 #ft and 491 HP from a GM 383 crate engine. :chevy
Moderator
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 7,117
Likes: 51
From: Dove Mountain Arizona
Re: can a SBC make 500 hp? (7t2vette)
I've used the XE284 and the XE274 cams among others. The XE284 was too ragged for me even with a 4 spd. and 3:70 gears. It is a bucking bronco at anything under 2500 rpm. You will need a 3000+ rpm stall converter for sure. The XE274 lowers it to about 1700 rpm before it makes your forhead sore from hitting the windshield frame :D. I like my XE274 but I will go with the 112-113 CL next time for a little better idle quality. 450 torque is a lot and torque afterall is what gets ya going. Don't get caught up in the HP war, it's for braggin' only. A 406 with those #'s will blow the tires off.
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Every 2027 Corvette Engine Explained
Joe Kucinski
Designer Imagines A Corvette That Looks More Like a Corvette Than the Corvette
Verdad Gallardo
10 Ugly Corvettes That We Still Kinda Love
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer
Brett Foote
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Pro
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
From: Calgary
Re: can a SBC make 500 hp? (7t2vette)
7t2vette, you are using all high quality parts. However, the Edelbrock heads will be too small and your engine will run out of breath by 5000 rpms. I too was worried about losing streetability with too big of heads and cam, but am very happy with my AFR 210's. I am even thinking of stepping up to a bigger cam or else 1.7 ratio rockers (I'm running 1.6 rockers now). My advice would be a roller cam in the 230 degree duration @ .050 lift.
Also, 1 5/8 headers will be too small for your 406. Move up to 1 3/4.
Also, 1 5/8 headers will be too small for your 406. Move up to 1 3/4.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,112
Likes: 2
From: Peoria IL
Re: can a SBC make 500 hp? (Smith)
Hey Smith I see your from STL maybe we hook up sometime. Are you happy with your current power? It seems like you've got all the right parts to make 420+ at the wheels. The only thing that seems out of place is the Performer RPM, have you considered a taller single plane? Where have you been dynoing your car, I'd like watch sometime if at all possible. Sorry for all of the questions.
Hey dave were you running 1.6 RRs with the XE284?
Hey dave were you running 1.6 RRs with the XE284?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 963
Likes: 0
From: melbourne,Australia
Re: can a SBC make 500 hp? (7t2vette)
My 383 is similar spec except for the heads,i'm using heavily worked Brodix track 1,and 1.6 shaft roller rockers all with a mild cam....the point of my project was to have 400+rwtq from 2000rpm up......if you have never driven an engine with this much torque,you are in for a hell of a surprise,i suggest you just make up a hp figure and enjoy your ride.....for conveniece on the street,you might want to consider a holley,750 vac sec,much easier on the wallet......good luck....john :chevy
Racer
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 257
Likes: 1
From: st. louis mo
Re: can a SBC make 500 hp? (Turbo-Jet)
Korvetkeith
Thanks for the note. I would like to check out your car sometime.
I am using the Performer RPM because when I put the motor together Edelbrock did not make a Victor Jr. that would fit the vortec heads. The super Victor would not fit under the BB hood that I have on the car.
I will be pulling the motor for a freshing over the next 30 days and then I will be back at the dyno and the track.
Thanks for the note. I would like to check out your car sometime.
I am using the Performer RPM because when I put the motor together Edelbrock did not make a Victor Jr. that would fit the vortec heads. The super Victor would not fit under the BB hood that I have on the car.
I will be pulling the motor for a freshing over the next 30 days and then I will be back at the dyno and the track.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,112
Likes: 2
From: Peoria IL
Re: can a SBC make 500 hp? (Smith)
Your right I didn't think about the different intake bolt patern. I'd love a modded 68-72, my dad has a '71 convertible auto with a 270/350. Not a hotrod but its a real looker, we keep it at kentucky lake. I just got my car back together today after replacing the water pump. I took it out for a test drive AND THE GAS PEDAL BROKE. Atleast it was still driveable but the car generally doesn't run for a week before something else breaks. The fan still doesn't work right either. It never ends.. :crazy:
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
From: Fredericksburg VA
Re: can a SBC make 500 hp? (Smith)
Turbo Jet,
I can get your 406 with the Edelbrock heads to run at about 485Hp at 5500RPM by using a mechanical flat tappet cam. Torque is about 550Ft-Lbs with an 11" runner single-plane manifold without any taper angle in the runners and 750cfm carb. The cam I used in my simulation was a custom Reed Cam with TA280UL intake lobe at 109ILCA (280/248/0.566"), and T276UL exhaust lobe at 119ELCA (276/245/0.534"). I wouldn't use a converter stall speed below 2500RPM. I chose the cam specs for best times with the auto transmission. The horsepower is with open headers designed at www.headerdesign.com using a performance factor of 6 in the program.
[Modified by HeaderDesign.com, 7:02 AM 7/16/2002]
I can get your 406 with the Edelbrock heads to run at about 485Hp at 5500RPM by using a mechanical flat tappet cam. Torque is about 550Ft-Lbs with an 11" runner single-plane manifold without any taper angle in the runners and 750cfm carb. The cam I used in my simulation was a custom Reed Cam with TA280UL intake lobe at 109ILCA (280/248/0.566"), and T276UL exhaust lobe at 119ELCA (276/245/0.534"). I wouldn't use a converter stall speed below 2500RPM. I chose the cam specs for best times with the auto transmission. The horsepower is with open headers designed at www.headerdesign.com using a performance factor of 6 in the program.
[Modified by HeaderDesign.com, 7:02 AM 7/16/2002]
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,574
Likes: 0
From: Middleboro/Boston MA
Re: can a SBC make 500 hp? (Turbo-Jet)
Here's over 100 dynoed combo's of small blocks ! http://ryanscarpage.50megs.com/combos2.html
Look at combo 16,17,54,71,93 and 102 and take your pick. :)
Look at combo 16,17,54,71,93 and 102 and take your pick. :)
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,206
Likes: 62
From: Redondo Beach CA
C2 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
Re: can a SBC make 500 hp? (7t2vette)
7t2vette: I plugged your combo into DD and substituted an aggressive Hydraulic Roller cam (CompCamsXR282HR) and pretty much got your goal: 481 HP and 502 TQ. AFR 190 heads with the same cam run up to 506 HP and 513 TQ, and going all the way up to the AFR210 pops you up a few more to 515 HP and 522 TQ.
All that said, these HP peaks might come on a bit high for a 406, at 6000 RPM. What is the expected red line for this build? Where would you plan on shifting? You can build the 406 for prodigious bottom end torque at the expense of some high end HP - and really reduce the stresses. You might them want to use a dual plane manifold to go for even more low RPM power.
All that said, these HP peaks might come on a bit high for a 406, at 6000 RPM. What is the expected red line for this build? Where would you plan on shifting? You can build the 406 for prodigious bottom end torque at the expense of some high end HP - and really reduce the stresses. You might them want to use a dual plane manifold to go for even more low RPM power.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 3,078
Likes: 1
Re: can a SBC make 500 hp? (bcwaller)
I agree...if stock (short) 400 rods are used.
However, I was assuming that 6 inch rods would be used, with a small base circle cam, to increase the rod/stroke ratio to 1.60. And then rpm's would be fine.
Still would suggest good forged rods, but not necessarily a forged crank.
A hydraulic roller cam would pick the rpm's right up to 6500, and depending on cam/compression/heads, could possibly even see 550 hp.
But you're right, he could build it cheap for much less, if he kept it a lower revving torque motor. It would be almost as quick, but would run out of breath down the track, compared to a more built 406.
Actually, I'm thinking about sticking my 406, built as a torquer, in a tow vehicle. Something cool, like a 30's Studebaker truck. Pearl white with white leather interior and nice flames...(Gotta stop, my woody's lifting my desk up).
However, I was assuming that 6 inch rods would be used, with a small base circle cam, to increase the rod/stroke ratio to 1.60. And then rpm's would be fine.
Still would suggest good forged rods, but not necessarily a forged crank.
A hydraulic roller cam would pick the rpm's right up to 6500, and depending on cam/compression/heads, could possibly even see 550 hp.
But you're right, he could build it cheap for much less, if he kept it a lower revving torque motor. It would be almost as quick, but would run out of breath down the track, compared to a more built 406.
Actually, I'm thinking about sticking my 406, built as a torquer, in a tow vehicle. Something cool, like a 30's Studebaker truck. Pearl white with white leather interior and nice flames...(Gotta stop, my woody's lifting my desk up).