SmokedTires

So what do you think? I'm shooting for 11's on pump gas. This is a nice weather street car. Going along with the Protouring theme, I'm hoping this will work at autocross along with some 1/4 mile action ;) .

You'll notice that the manifold is single plane, but I'm hoping to go with the new Holley Stealthram with the Commander950. This dyno is also with mufflers :) .


[Modified by SmokedTires, 7:16 PM 12/12/2002]

Twin_Turbo

Select flat tappet for the cam, even if you are going to simulate a roller. The roller optio in DD2K should only be selected if you're simulating nothing short of a full race roller.

jerryjfunk

Looks awesome... I'm jealous. :D

You're in Syracuse, eh? I'd love to see your Vette some time. It looks amazing in the picture, and with that engine, :eek: it will be a monster!

Jerry

69 N.O.X. RATT

What do those heads flow, what type of intake. If heads and intake are right, it should make power at, or close to those numbers.

It will rum 11's.

SmokedTires

Twin that's something I didn't know. I'll have to take a look. :cheers:

Thanks Jerry. I attend as many Syracuse Corvette Club events I can during the summer. We have a great show each July called Vettes at the Beach that attracts 300+ cars. Maybe we'll run into each other some time :) .

69NOX, I don't have the flow numbers here @ work with me, but I called Jegs to get them. As for the intake, I have the single plane on the DD, but I plan on going with the new Holley Stealthram injection. Not sure how that will affect the numbers? :cheers:

gkull

Too high of rpm to get power try something more like my cam please. Then you would have a Tq monster!:)

Just plug in these V event numbers at .050 an post them for us.

12 , 46
60 , 6

SmokedTires

George-Here's your numbers plugged in.



I have a couple of concerns with this. With my 3.90 rear gear ratio & the TKO's 3.27 1st gear ratio I'm afraid that if I have too much torque down low I won't be able to use it efficently. Also I was thinking that if I build an engine that can go higher in rpms then I'll be able to hold 1st gear longer.

Also I see that the volume eff % never hits 100, although it does get very close. As rediculous (sp?) as this may sound, I want to be able to make HP as efficent as possible for mpg. This is something that the Nascar teams try to do so they can go as far as they can on the track with using the least amount of fuel. Maybe I'm just dreaming & I can't achieve this on a street car, but that's ok, I'm still learning here :) .

69NOX- these are the numbers I plugged in for the Jegs heads.
Flow #'s @ 28 inH2O

exhaust/ intake
.100 52.2 / 71.6
.200 104.9 / 144.9
.300 146.2 / 206.4
.500 203.2 / 288
.600 219.2 / 301.7
.700 228 / 309.8

81vette

Smoked,

I've been reading a lot about DD2000 lately from various sources, and playing around with my own cam setups for my 406 build up. What I've found is that DD2000 doesn't accurately model very well using @.050 cam specs. DD2000 converts to what it thinks is the seat-seat figures for your cam when you enter @.050 specs (see Help file). It doesn't do this very accurately, and the overlap of the cam looks smaller than it really is. If you can enter the advertised durations the program will calculate the true overlap of the cam, and model the output of the engine more accurately. I think you'll see that the cam your using will have less bottom end than your seeing now, but better top end HP and the rpm range will move higher provided the heads and compression match the cam.

mark


[Modified by 81vette, 10:57 AM 12/14/2002]

Flareside

Mike, do you know who makes those heads for Jeg's? The big block heads look suspeciously like Canfields. Lately, I've been buying stuff from Competition Products. Awesome prices and service! Much cheaper than Jegs and/or Summit, even with the discounts. http://www.competitionproducts.com

I just looked up those heads in the Jeg's book. Are you going to run a cam that requires 240 lbs. seat pressure? That's pretty stout!

I'll try to emulate my 406 in DD2000, and let you know how it compares to my real world experiences with the engine.

-Joe

Twin_Turbo

I noticed that too, I'm pretty sure they all are canfield heads.

canfield:

Jegs:


the exhaust flage is the same on both as far as I can tell.



[Modified by Twin_Turbo, 1:05 PM 12/14/2002]

SmokedTires

Hey Mark, I was messing around with the cam some more this morning and found that I can get it up to 600 hp with less lift & still with mufflers with only a very small sacrifice in torque.

Flareside I think you & TT are right. I think they'll getting the heads from Canfield. The intake valve is offset so it requires special order offset rockers.

Thanks for the link Flareside, I'm on my way over there now ;) .

LD85

Comp Products has awesome prices, thats were I'm getting my 215CC Canfields :cheers:

Stingraycrazy

Mike my buddy, Merry Christmas. With 11:1 I think the first cam would be ok. It will help bleed off a little cylinder pressure in the lower RPM range and will help with detonation on 94 octane. With that gear, you know what happens with your current setup... I think a Cheech and Chong movie summed it up pretty well. :lol: Looks good to me! :thumbs:

Is your gal (Shall remain nameless) getting you a Stealth Ram for Christmas? Have you been a good little boy? :crazy:

SmokedTires

Frank, posting at 1am :eek: , is Haylee keeping you up :crazy: ;) .

Does that cam look familiar in the first dyno ;) .

I've been playing with the cam still & I'm still making progress :) .

PS: No the misses thinks I do a good enough job at buying car parts without her help :lol: .

Stingraycrazy

:sleep: This we don’t see much of any more... Every 2 to 3 hours and :cry But I love her to death... Yea I thought that cam profile looked familiar. :crazy:


[Modified by Stingraycrazy, 2:40 PM 12/16/2002]

Stingraycrazy

Mike, "Volumetric Efficiency" simply stated is the ability of a motor to pump air. The more air you can pump the more fuel you need. Add these together and the more horsepower you can make per cubic inch. The calculation is based on swept volume. When a motor is say 80% VE the most likely cause would be a small cam, weak head flow or the combination of both. When a motor runs higher than 100% normally aspirated head and cam flow is at a maximum plus it's getting a scavenging effect from a big overlapping cam profile. The exhaust gas actually pulls in the intake charge as it's leaving out the header like an educator during the overlap event. (Swept Volume + Exhaust Scavenging=VE) Forced Induction greatly increases VE as the air is forced into the chamber at above atmospheric pressure. (Swept Volume + Forced Induction=VE) Sorry my buddy, you can't have you cake and eat it too on this one. But I do think that combo will sound like a NASCAR motor running down the straight away at the Glen! :crazy:


[Modified by Stingraycrazy, 3:20 PM 12/16/2002]


[Modified by Stingraycrazy, 3:25 PM 12/16/2002]

gkull

I ran some more figures this weekend. DD2000 really wrongly rewards massive split durations. Your cam has 14 degrees different, but another problem is 31 degrees of overlap. MPG and low rpm will suck.

Here's a good combo that is nearly 600 hp 10 degrees of overlap and lots of TQ

-2 , 52
47 , 12


[Modified by gkull, 9:16 AM 12/17/2002]

SmokedTires

Man that is a torque monster George :eek: !

Check out this cam:

Lift: Intake-.646 Exhaust-.621
Duration: I-242 E-254
LSA 112
LCA 112

9 , 53
59 , 15

Compliments of Monty's website ;)

This cam looks really good :yesnod:

gkull

Take a look at what these guys have to say about "Overlap". I go to Wednesday night cruises. Without fail when car pulls in with a real radical sound people flock to it. But 98% of time they are poor excuses for a driver or a race car.

When you select your cam. Go with the one that has the highest average TQ across the 2000 - 6500 rpm range and the highest hp 1500 or so rpm below your intended red line.

Big TQ at 2000 rpm makes a car a pleasure to drive. You can skip gears shifting and never worry about down shifting for passing power.

SmokedTires

Sounds good to me George, I guess it's back to the drawing board :rolleyes: .

BTW, when I plugged in your #'s, I came up with a 12.3 degree lobe center angle. For a custom ground cam, do you give them the IVO, EVO etc... numbers or do you just give them lift, duration, lobe angles ?