Who is using copper head gaskets?
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,142
Likes: 54
From: Taylor Michigan
Re: Who is using copper head gaskets? (norvalwilhelm)
Copper gaskets are original equipment with aluminum head powered engines such as Corvette L88`s and Chryslers A990 race hemi. Both of these engines were 12.5-1 compression also. They are soft and seal perfectly. The red high tack spray cement is all you will need to install the copper gaskets. O ringing the heads is really only necessary on supercharged engines because of the added pressure resulting from the tremendous boost produced. :cheers: :flag :thumbs: An added feature is they are reusable over and over.
[Modified by Ironcross, 12:29 PM 4/21/2003]
[Modified by Ironcross, 12:29 PM 4/21/2003]
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Re: Who is using copper head gaskets? (ld85)
Can I do this after thecrank and pistons are in the block?
Id85. It is no problem to O ring an assembled block. The tool locates in the piston bore but only the first few inches. If the bore being cut has the piston down in the bore the tool slides in the top few inches and is locked in place.
The only problem is cuttings getting in the bore so be sure to clean up carefully before moving on to the next piston. The block is not mounted in a machine and can be done on the engine stand or on the floor.
A trick I found is cut part of the groove from one side of the block then move to the other side and continue cutting. It makes a difference on the finish. Cutting from only one side doesn't give as nice a finish.
Id85. It is no problem to O ring an assembled block. The tool locates in the piston bore but only the first few inches. If the bore being cut has the piston down in the bore the tool slides in the top few inches and is locked in place.
The only problem is cuttings getting in the bore so be sure to clean up carefully before moving on to the next piston. The block is not mounted in a machine and can be done on the engine stand or on the floor.
A trick I found is cut part of the groove from one side of the block then move to the other side and continue cutting. It makes a difference on the finish. Cutting from only one side doesn't give as nice a finish.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Re: Who is using copper head gaskets? (ld85)
I cut my own O ring grooves with a borrowed tool. You can get very accurate jobs. The tool locates in the bore, the depth is set with a feeler guage and you slowly crank the handle while adding cutting oil. I find if I only turn the handle from one side of the block I tend to get a little tool chatter on one side so I rotate sides occassionally and all chatter is gone.
I am very **** about things and I am content with the O ring job.
The groove is .032 deep and .040 wide. Summit sells the stainless wire in a roll enough to do One block with a few bad cuts. The length of the wire is important to have no gap once it is tapped into the groove.
I am very **** about things and I am content with the O ring job.
The groove is .032 deep and .040 wide. Summit sells the stainless wire in a roll enough to do One block with a few bad cuts. The length of the wire is important to have no gap once it is tapped into the groove.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,358
Likes: 26
From: Florida
Re: Who is using copper head gaskets? (ld85)
ld85,
Try COMETIC
http://www.cometic.com/home/home.htm
You will not go back and they will not blow
I have used them on SBC and lots of Harleys especially when I need a thicker gasket to lower compression or custom gaskets for other purposes
Try COMETIC
http://www.cometic.com/home/home.htm
You will not go back and they will not blow
I have used them on SBC and lots of Harleys especially when I need a thicker gasket to lower compression or custom gaskets for other purposes
Pro
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 708
Likes: 0
From: Renton Wa
Re: Who is using copper head gaskets? (andy60)
I have heard about cometic, they apparently are a good gasket, multi layered steel, and I guess a bit of mustang turbo guys use them and hold upwards of 25psi. However I also heard you have to clerance the head cause the gaskets use rivits to hold the layers together. I decided to tik with what works to hold all pressure, good ole o-rings :)
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 12,772
Likes: 17
From: Indianapolis IN
Re: Who is using copper head gaskets? (andy60)
ld85,
Try COMETIC
http://www.cometic.com/home/home.htm
You will not go back and they will not blow I have used them on SBC and lots of Harleys especially when I need a thicker gasket to lower compression or custom gaskets for other purposes
Try COMETIC
http://www.cometic.com/home/home.htm
You will not go back and they will not blow I have used them on SBC and lots of Harleys especially when I need a thicker gasket to lower compression or custom gaskets for other purposes
I called them, they have a 4.160 bore .025 gasket, composite, that does not need re-tightening. Problem, is they want $72 per gasket
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Pro
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 608
Likes: 0
Re: Who is using copper head gaskets? (ld85)
I don't use copper myself, but here's what I've heard about them...
When using certain types of hi-temp sealant, it is VERY important to make sure none of it gets into the combustion chamber. The stuff wont burn, so it'll get cherry red from the heat, and potentially create pre-ignition/ detonation.
To solve this, they say to torque the heads down, then remove them again to scrape away the excess sealant.
It sounds like a real pain: putting the heads on, only to take them off right away, but I guess a little more work now can save you a lot of work later.
Good luck!!
When using certain types of hi-temp sealant, it is VERY important to make sure none of it gets into the combustion chamber. The stuff wont burn, so it'll get cherry red from the heat, and potentially create pre-ignition/ detonation.
To solve this, they say to torque the heads down, then remove them again to scrape away the excess sealant.
It sounds like a real pain: putting the heads on, only to take them off right away, but I guess a little more work now can save you a lot of work later.
Good luck!!
Pro
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 705
Likes: 0
From: Dearborn mi.
Re: Who is using copper head gaskets? ('75 383 ElkGrove)
Not so! I use them with Blown {supercharged} Nitro on aluminum racing engines. All you need is red high tack spray. Neat thing about copper, you can use them over and over.
I don't use copper myself, but here's what I've heard about them...
When using certain types of hi-temp sealant, it is VERY important to make sure none of it gets into the combustion chamber. The stuff wont burn, so it'll get cherry red from the heat, and potentially create pre-ignition/ detonation.
To solve this, they say to torque the heads down, then remove them again to scrape away the excess sealant.
It sounds like a real pain: putting the heads on, only to take them off right away, but I guess a little more work now can save you a lot of work later.
Good luck!!
When using certain types of hi-temp sealant, it is VERY important to make sure none of it gets into the combustion chamber. The stuff wont burn, so it'll get cherry red from the heat, and potentially create pre-ignition/ detonation.
To solve this, they say to torque the heads down, then remove them again to scrape away the excess sealant.
It sounds like a real pain: putting the heads on, only to take them off right away, but I guess a little more work now can save you a lot of work later.
Good luck!!
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,897
Likes: 0
From: La Fontaine Indiana
Re: Who is using copper head gaskets? (Monty)
I really don't see the need for copper head gaskets and all their problems/concerns on a street engine. My last two setups, both the 650hp 11.5:1 compression, and the current 20+ psi boost engine use regular head gaskets with no o-ringing. As long as you avoid detonation, and the associated spikes in cylinder pressure, you should be fine. I'd rather use the head gasket as a "fuse" rather than over-engineer it and risk popping a piston instead, or worse. Rather than use copper head gaskets, spend more effort at tuning the engine to run properly
.
.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 705
Likes: 0
From: Dearborn mi.
Re: Who is using copper head gaskets? (black bart)
Copper is the best gasket you can use. They are soft and seal perfectly supercharged or not as the L88`s and A990 Hemi`s specifically call for the copper shim gasket because of the aluminum heads. Granted the cost is higher, but you can use them over and over. Both of the noted engines are 12.5-1 and I have never had a sealing problem with either engine. I don`t know how much HP either engine produces as none were ever specifically noted, but at least 550. I do know that they were always in the winners circle. If you have a cable dial up go to http://www.nitroalley.net and find the A990 Cuda page. There you can actually hear a REAL A990 engine run if you push the start engine button on the engine picture. A discription of the engine components is also in the story of the Cuda. :thumbs: :cheers:
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 12,772
Likes: 17
From: Indianapolis IN
Re: Who is using copper head gaskets? (wallyknoch)
Thansk Guys,
I just received, last Friday, a set of SCE copper .021" head gaskets.
This will put my quench at .042" and my Static CR at 10.55:1 and my Dynamic CR at 8.2:1,,,, from all I have read this is a good thing.
Desktop Dyno says 509 TQ @ 4500-RPM and 495HP at 5750-RPM.
Cam is somewhat mild HR .225/.233 and .541/.526 with a max lift of 280/289 w/1.6RR's
Should be ready to fire it up in 2 weeks!
[Modified by ld85, 7:44 AM 4/28/2003]
I just received, last Friday, a set of SCE copper .021" head gaskets.
This will put my quench at .042" and my Static CR at 10.55:1 and my Dynamic CR at 8.2:1,,,, from all I have read this is a good thing.
Desktop Dyno says 509 TQ @ 4500-RPM and 495HP at 5750-RPM.
Cam is somewhat mild HR .225/.233 and .541/.526 with a max lift of 280/289 w/1.6RR's
Should be ready to fire it up in 2 weeks!
[Modified by ld85, 7:44 AM 4/28/2003]
