302 Chevy...best pushrod V8 ever designed?
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Racer
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: OLD DIRTY BASTARD LIVE AND UNCUT
302 Chevy...best pushrod V8 ever designed?
I was watching Car and Driver T.V. and they had a Camaro with the 302 solid lifter V8.
327 block & 283 crank, but of course you all know what.
Anyway, one of the editors of Car and Driver said that the 302 small block chevy is possibly one of the best pushrod motors to ever hit the market.
Guess because it made almost 400 hp, 7500 rpms and was pretty durable.
What do you guys/gals think?
327 block & 283 crank, but of course you all know what.
Anyway, one of the editors of Car and Driver said that the 302 small block chevy is possibly one of the best pushrod motors to ever hit the market.
Guess because it made almost 400 hp, 7500 rpms and was pretty durable.
What do you guys/gals think?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 1999
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From: delmont pa
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Re: 302 Chevy...best pushrod V8 ever designed? (reallycoolcorvette)
it was the best HP per CI for a GEN I engine but the GEN III engine will do better when fully developed :chevy
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 337
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From: OLD DIRTY BASTARD LIVE AND UNCUT
Re: 302 Chevy...best pushrod V8 ever designed? (clem zahrobsky)
it was the 1960 something camaro that is used in the tran am racing series.
what a killer sound that car has...
what a killer sound that car has...
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2000
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From: Bloomington MN
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Re: 302 Chevy...best pushrod V8 ever designed? (clem zahrobsky)
I'll take a new LS1/LS5 over that motor in original form. We can take them for a 1000 mile drive from Minneapolis to Bowling Green and then drag race them at Beech Bend and see which motor is better.
Le Mans Master
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From: delmont pa
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Re: 302 Chevy...best pushrod V8 ever designed? (reallycoolcorvette)
i owned 2 Z-28 camaros new in 68 and 69. the 68 had a build up engine to where it would pull 8200 RPM thru the gears and pull 8000 in high gear with the 4:11 rear gear. :chevy
Race Director
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Re: 302 Chevy...best pushrod V8 ever designed? (clem zahrobsky)
A 302, properly configured will make as much power as any other 4" bore displacement, but the problem is you have to rev it sky high to achieve that power, so valvetrain durability becomes an issue and requires lots of premium parts and very high valve spring force.
If you stroke a given 302 to 350 or 377 it will make about the same power, but at lower revs. Also, the average power across the range with longer strokes is much higher because of the greater torque, so you have a much more flexible engine. Unless your only interest is top speed, a longer stroke engine will always outperform a short stroke engine.
SB power is basically limited by volumetric efficiency, and for a given engine configuration (cam, heads, etc.) VE will plot nearly identically as a function of mean piston speed regardless of stroke, so peak power will be about the same at some piston speed, but revs will be a function of stroke, and the shorter the stroke the higher the revs.
Duke
If you stroke a given 302 to 350 or 377 it will make about the same power, but at lower revs. Also, the average power across the range with longer strokes is much higher because of the greater torque, so you have a much more flexible engine. Unless your only interest is top speed, a longer stroke engine will always outperform a short stroke engine.
SB power is basically limited by volumetric efficiency, and for a given engine configuration (cam, heads, etc.) VE will plot nearly identically as a function of mean piston speed regardless of stroke, so peak power will be about the same at some piston speed, but revs will be a function of stroke, and the shorter the stroke the higher the revs.
Duke
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,897
Likes: 0
From: La Fontaine Indiana
Re: 302 Chevy...best pushrod V8 ever designed? (reallycoolcorvette)
I was watching Car and Driver T.V. and they had a Camaro with the 302 solid lifter V8.
327 block & 283 crank, but of course you all know what.
Anyway, one of the editors of Car and Driver said that the 302 small block chevy is possibly one of the best pushrod motors to ever hit the market.
Guess because it made almost 400 hp, 7500 rpms and was pretty durable.
What do you guys/gals think?
327 block & 283 crank, but of course you all know what.
Anyway, one of the editors of Car and Driver said that the 302 small block chevy is possibly one of the best pushrod motors to ever hit the market.
Guess because it made almost 400 hp, 7500 rpms and was pretty durable.
What do you guys/gals think?
Great in 1968 :U IN 2003
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 3,349
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From: Colorado
Re: 302 Chevy...best pushrod V8 ever designed? (black bart)
Why not apply the same line of thinking to increased cubic inches?
A 400 with a 350 crank and 30/1000" overbore makes a high revving 377 with 55 more cubic inches.
A 502 with a 427/396 crank would make a high revving 454-ish big block... with even more cubic inches.
The cubes add area under the curve, and the geometry adds the high rpm.
These guys are right though, torque is actually real power. Horsepower is simply a product of torque and rpm.
Drive a 1969 Camaro Z28 with the 302, and then drive a 1973 455-SD Trans Am. I think you'll lean towards the Trans Am.
Revs are nice, but torque is king.
A 400 with a 350 crank and 30/1000" overbore makes a high revving 377 with 55 more cubic inches.
A 502 with a 427/396 crank would make a high revving 454-ish big block... with even more cubic inches.
The cubes add area under the curve, and the geometry adds the high rpm.
These guys are right though, torque is actually real power. Horsepower is simply a product of torque and rpm.
Drive a 1969 Camaro Z28 with the 302, and then drive a 1973 455-SD Trans Am. I think you'll lean towards the Trans Am.
Revs are nice, but torque is king.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,780
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From: Southwest MI
Re: 302 Chevy...best pushrod V8 ever designed? (Bearcat)
It's a "state of tune" thing, the below 3 basically had the same heads, compression, and intake (ok the 327 was a hair more restrictive intake wise):
302 HIGHEST (327 cam, but 30 less cubes; so hotter, HP/CID wise)
327/365 LESS (327 cam)
LT-1 LESS YET (20 more cubes than the 327, but instead of going with a
touch more cam, they used a cam milder than the 327
Just think if they would have cammed the LT-1 like the Z-28 (maybe 8 more degrees @ .050 than the 327) :)
Some like e'm hot......... and some like e'm milder (different strokes for different folks, no pun intended, lol)
[Modified by 66427-450, 12:18 PM 7/21/2003]
302 HIGHEST (327 cam, but 30 less cubes; so hotter, HP/CID wise)
327/365 LESS (327 cam)
LT-1 LESS YET (20 more cubes than the 327, but instead of going with a
touch more cam, they used a cam milder than the 327
Just think if they would have cammed the LT-1 like the Z-28 (maybe 8 more degrees @ .050 than the 327) :)
Some like e'm hot......... and some like e'm milder (different strokes for different folks, no pun intended, lol)
[Modified by 66427-450, 12:18 PM 7/21/2003]
Pro
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 500
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From: sebastopol ca
Re: 302 Chevy...best pushrod V8 ever designed? (66427-450)
how about a 327 crank in a 400 block?? i've always wanted to build that. Biggish heads pretty wild cam and you could still have decent torqye, but you could make some serious power up high in teh rpm range. Put that in a nova with a 5 speed and 4.11 rear?? what doyou think, ]
p.s. this is pretty OT
p.s. this is pretty OT
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: Redondo Beach CA
C2 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
Re: 302 Chevy...best pushrod V8 ever designed? (OatBoy)
Oatboy,
I'll hopefully be able to let you know soon enough. I have a 400 block/327 crank engine on the stand in my garage right now. It has Victor Jr. heads and intake and a milder cam than I could have gone. All the simulations look pretty cool, and I hope it will be lots of fun with my four speed!
I'll hopefully be able to let you know soon enough. I have a 400 block/327 crank engine on the stand in my garage right now. It has Victor Jr. heads and intake and a milder cam than I could have gone. All the simulations look pretty cool, and I hope it will be lots of fun with my four speed!
