Camaros arrive in Houston, Tx.
04-22-2009, 09:23 PM
#41
Safety Car
I am glad you are getting your jollies over seeing these cars. We all need something in our life that excites us.
I'm old now....60 this fall ....and have owned 6 or 8 gen one Camaros including a brand new SS396 4 speed coupe I got in the summer of 68 when I was 18 and working two jobs to pay for it.
Since then I have owned two completely stock 69 Z28s and several more big block 68s. They have all been sold since I got really tired of mixing octane booster to try and keep the engines from knocking themselves to pieces of the junk pump gas today. Also, I got tired of the terrible handling and lack of shoulder belts in the 68s.
But.....taking them to shows I must say they were and ARE beautiful. The most attractive Camaros ever built...and only three short years.
Now, you get my point that "what do I know". I'm old. Heck, I was just powershifting my muncie in the 68 a couple of years after learning to drive.....what do I know?
My opinion is that the new Camaro is shockingly ugly if judged in the same category as Camaros of all past generations. It's boxy, very heavy, and looks sluggish. And...even with the highest hp engine it will make a lot of noise but not be shockingly fast due to having to move 4000 or more pounds around.
Now, as a gentleman's sedan...kinda sinister looking with that solid feel.....not a bad car......But.....if I wanted a car like that it would be a Charger or Challenger which I think are more attractive.
Though some initial buyers will be as hot and bothered as you about this new brick on wheels here are some predictions:
1/ The "youth" market at which this is aimed will not be able to afford it.
2/ That same market will largely reject the styling.
3/ Dealers will all but kill the thing by stubbornly refusing to sell it at msrp instead demanding premiums that will cause cars to sit on the lots unsold.
I think it's a terrible shame that GM had a real opportunity here to produce a new Camaro from the ground up. They could have built a car that looked fast sitting still and instead they came up with one that looks like a brick on wheels.
Of course, what do I know? I'm getting old and even though I "was there" during the heyday of the muscle car and first Camaros I'm not "with it" today. It's a shame for me personally as I was planning to buy a new Camaro just for old times sake. Frankly though, I would not want to be seen in this thing-it looks like a cartoon to me. But, then, if it's aimed at the "gaming" generation perhaps this is the point.
On the other hand , at my advancing age, this might be a better car for me than the vette. It would be easier to get into and out of since it sits so much higher. Visibility would be much better than the vette for the same reason (my old neck is getting stiff ). Also, it's seats must be larger and probably stronger than in the vette to support my tired old back. Maybe I do need a new Camaro since, after all, it LOOKS like an older man's sedan to me and not a young man's sports car.
And, yah, I wish it well , my thoughts, opinions, and predictions are not a wish list by any means just what I think will be the case.
Oh, well. Time will tell. By the time the dealers get done adding their "market adjustments" to the high hp versions of the Camaro it will probably cost as much or MORE than a base no option C6 coupe....and we all know which car is light years better now don't we?
mahalo
ps 3747 lbs eh? Don't take that figure to the bank. My bet is it will tip the scales at close to 4000. It will make a lot of noise and be pretty fast ( about as fast as an SRT8 Cherokee SUV ) but get any camaro of any gen including this new one on twisties and forget it.
I'm old now....60 this fall ....and have owned 6 or 8 gen one Camaros including a brand new SS396 4 speed coupe I got in the summer of 68 when I was 18 and working two jobs to pay for it.
Since then I have owned two completely stock 69 Z28s and several more big block 68s. They have all been sold since I got really tired of mixing octane booster to try and keep the engines from knocking themselves to pieces of the junk pump gas today. Also, I got tired of the terrible handling and lack of shoulder belts in the 68s.
But.....taking them to shows I must say they were and ARE beautiful. The most attractive Camaros ever built...and only three short years.
Now, you get my point that "what do I know". I'm old. Heck, I was just powershifting my muncie in the 68 a couple of years after learning to drive.....what do I know?
My opinion is that the new Camaro is shockingly ugly if judged in the same category as Camaros of all past generations. It's boxy, very heavy, and looks sluggish. And...even with the highest hp engine it will make a lot of noise but not be shockingly fast due to having to move 4000 or more pounds around.
Now, as a gentleman's sedan...kinda sinister looking with that solid feel.....not a bad car......But.....if I wanted a car like that it would be a Charger or Challenger which I think are more attractive.
Though some initial buyers will be as hot and bothered as you about this new brick on wheels here are some predictions:
1/ The "youth" market at which this is aimed will not be able to afford it.
2/ That same market will largely reject the styling.
3/ Dealers will all but kill the thing by stubbornly refusing to sell it at msrp instead demanding premiums that will cause cars to sit on the lots unsold.
I think it's a terrible shame that GM had a real opportunity here to produce a new Camaro from the ground up. They could have built a car that looked fast sitting still and instead they came up with one that looks like a brick on wheels.
Of course, what do I know? I'm getting old and even though I "was there" during the heyday of the muscle car and first Camaros I'm not "with it" today. It's a shame for me personally as I was planning to buy a new Camaro just for old times sake. Frankly though, I would not want to be seen in this thing-it looks like a cartoon to me. But, then, if it's aimed at the "gaming" generation perhaps this is the point.
On the other hand , at my advancing age, this might be a better car for me than the vette. It would be easier to get into and out of since it sits so much higher. Visibility would be much better than the vette for the same reason (my old neck is getting stiff ). Also, it's seats must be larger and probably stronger than in the vette to support my tired old back. Maybe I do need a new Camaro since, after all, it LOOKS like an older man's sedan to me and not a young man's sports car.
And, yah, I wish it well , my thoughts, opinions, and predictions are not a wish list by any means just what I think will be the case.
Oh, well. Time will tell. By the time the dealers get done adding their "market adjustments" to the high hp versions of the Camaro it will probably cost as much or MORE than a base no option C6 coupe....and we all know which car is light years better now don't we?
mahalo
ps 3747 lbs eh? Don't take that figure to the bank. My bet is it will tip the scales at close to 4000. It will make a lot of noise and be pretty fast ( about as fast as an SRT8 Cherokee SUV ) but get any camaro of any gen including this new one on twisties and forget it.
me too, I think the Challenger did a better job of pulling off the old design on a new platform and they are still not the lookers of the originals.
04-22-2009, 09:28 PM
#42
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Not only did GM drop the ball on the long, long delays to get this car on the ground, now they're just going to let them accumulate on sales lots until some "perfect moment" determined by an overpaid group of MBAs...
Brilliant; GM can surely afford to let these cars just sit there.
04-22-2009, 09:41 PM
#43
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04-22-2009, 09:45 PM
#44
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The Challenger is better looking but is comparatively slow and only gets 16mpg because of it's weight. However, GM's official time for the SS is a surprisingly quick 12.9@111 in the 1/4; awfully close to the LS2 vettes! If that proves true, then I'm guessing the LS3's going in them must be underrated..
04-22-2009, 09:49 PM
#45
Melting Slicks
I've never watched a full-length cartoon movie (and probably never will), but I certainly agree that the "face" on the new Camaro is cartoon-like. But it looks better than the rear aspect !
04-22-2009, 09:54 PM
#46
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The Challenger is better looking but is comparatively slow and only gets 16mpg because of it's weight. However, GM's official time for the SS is a surprisingly quick 12.9@111 in the 1/4; awfully close to the LS2 vettes! If that proves true, then I'm guessing the LS3's going in them must be underrated..
Oh, the guy could only cut low 14's too complaining of lack of traction and too much tm in the samebreath
.
04-22-2009, 10:41 PM
#49
Team Owner
I am glad you are getting your jollies over seeing these cars. We all need something in our life that excites us.
I'm old now....60 this fall ....and have owned 6 or 8 gen one Camaros including a brand new SS396 4 speed coupe I got in the summer of 68 when I was 18 and working two jobs to pay for it.
Since then I have owned two completely stock 69 Z28s and several more big block 68s. They have all been sold since I got really tired of mixing octane booster to try and keep the engines from knocking themselves to pieces of the junk pump gas today. Also, I got tired of the terrible handling and lack of shoulder belts in the 68s.
But.....taking them to shows I must say they were and ARE beautiful. The most attractive Camaros ever built...and only three short years.
Now, you get my point that "what do I know". I'm old. Heck, I was just powershifting my muncie in the 68 a couple of years after learning to drive.....what do I know?
My opinion is that the new Camaro is shockingly ugly if judged in the same category as Camaros of all past generations. It's boxy, very heavy, and looks sluggish. And...even with the highest hp engine it will make a lot of noise but not be shockingly fast due to having to move 4000 or more pounds around.
Now, as a gentleman's sedan...kinda sinister looking with that solid feel.....not a bad car......But.....if I wanted a car like that it would be a Charger or Challenger which I think are more attractive.
Though some initial buyers will be as hot and bothered as you about this new brick on wheels here are some predictions:
1/ The "youth" market at which this is aimed will not be able to afford it.
2/ That same market will largely reject the styling.
3/ Dealers will all but kill the thing by stubbornly refusing to sell it at msrp instead demanding premiums that will cause cars to sit on the lots unsold.
I think it's a terrible shame that GM had a real opportunity here to produce a new Camaro from the ground up. They could have built a car that looked fast sitting still and instead they came up with one that looks like a brick on wheels.
Of course, what do I know? I'm getting old and even though I "was there" during the heyday of the muscle car and first Camaros I'm not "with it" today. It's a shame for me personally as I was planning to buy a new Camaro just for old times sake. Frankly though, I would not want to be seen in this thing-it looks like a cartoon to me. But, then, if it's aimed at the "gaming" generation perhaps this is the point.
On the other hand , at my advancing age, this might be a better car for me than the vette. It would be easier to get into and out of since it sits so much higher. Visibility would be much better than the vette for the same reason (my old neck is getting stiff ). Also, it's seats must be larger and probably stronger than in the vette to support my tired old back. Maybe I do need a new Camaro since, after all, it LOOKS like an older man's sedan to me and not a young man's sports car.
And, yah, I wish it well , my thoughts, opinions, and predictions are not a wish list by any means just what I think will be the case.
Oh, well. Time will tell. By the time the dealers get done adding their "market adjustments" to the high hp versions of the Camaro it will probably cost as much or MORE than a base no option C6 coupe....and we all know which car is light years better now don't we?
mahalo
ps 3747 lbs eh? Don't take that figure to the bank. My bet is it will tip the scales at close to 4000. It will make a lot of noise and be pretty fast ( about as fast as an SRT8 Cherokee SUV ) but get any camaro of any gen including this new one on twisties and forget it.
I'm old now....60 this fall ....and have owned 6 or 8 gen one Camaros including a brand new SS396 4 speed coupe I got in the summer of 68 when I was 18 and working two jobs to pay for it.
Since then I have owned two completely stock 69 Z28s and several more big block 68s. They have all been sold since I got really tired of mixing octane booster to try and keep the engines from knocking themselves to pieces of the junk pump gas today. Also, I got tired of the terrible handling and lack of shoulder belts in the 68s.
But.....taking them to shows I must say they were and ARE beautiful. The most attractive Camaros ever built...and only three short years.
Now, you get my point that "what do I know". I'm old. Heck, I was just powershifting my muncie in the 68 a couple of years after learning to drive.....what do I know?
My opinion is that the new Camaro is shockingly ugly if judged in the same category as Camaros of all past generations. It's boxy, very heavy, and looks sluggish. And...even with the highest hp engine it will make a lot of noise but not be shockingly fast due to having to move 4000 or more pounds around.
Now, as a gentleman's sedan...kinda sinister looking with that solid feel.....not a bad car......But.....if I wanted a car like that it would be a Charger or Challenger which I think are more attractive.
Though some initial buyers will be as hot and bothered as you about this new brick on wheels here are some predictions:
1/ The "youth" market at which this is aimed will not be able to afford it.
2/ That same market will largely reject the styling.
3/ Dealers will all but kill the thing by stubbornly refusing to sell it at msrp instead demanding premiums that will cause cars to sit on the lots unsold.
I think it's a terrible shame that GM had a real opportunity here to produce a new Camaro from the ground up. They could have built a car that looked fast sitting still and instead they came up with one that looks like a brick on wheels.
Of course, what do I know? I'm getting old and even though I "was there" during the heyday of the muscle car and first Camaros I'm not "with it" today. It's a shame for me personally as I was planning to buy a new Camaro just for old times sake. Frankly though, I would not want to be seen in this thing-it looks like a cartoon to me. But, then, if it's aimed at the "gaming" generation perhaps this is the point.
On the other hand , at my advancing age, this might be a better car for me than the vette. It would be easier to get into and out of since it sits so much higher. Visibility would be much better than the vette for the same reason (my old neck is getting stiff ). Also, it's seats must be larger and probably stronger than in the vette to support my tired old back. Maybe I do need a new Camaro since, after all, it LOOKS like an older man's sedan to me and not a young man's sports car.
And, yah, I wish it well , my thoughts, opinions, and predictions are not a wish list by any means just what I think will be the case.
Oh, well. Time will tell. By the time the dealers get done adding their "market adjustments" to the high hp versions of the Camaro it will probably cost as much or MORE than a base no option C6 coupe....and we all know which car is light years better now don't we?
mahalo
ps 3747 lbs eh? Don't take that figure to the bank. My bet is it will tip the scales at close to 4000. It will make a lot of noise and be pretty fast ( about as fast as an SRT8 Cherokee SUV ) but get any camaro of any gen including this new one on twisties and forget it.
Let me start by saying that like you, I am not knocked over by the looks of the new Camaro either, and much prefer the Challenger.
HOWEVER, I was at the Houston auto show a couple of months back - standing by the new Camaro. Next to me was a couple who I would say were between 65 and 70 years old talking to the guy working the display.
I overheard the lady say "it resembles a 69....". I turned and told her I was impressed that she would make that observation. Her reply? "we have a 69 Camaro and we are trying to find a dealer with allocations to buy one of these new ones from".
04-22-2009, 10:55 PM
#50
Have you gone to the chevy website? SS is the same car, just you get the 426hp V8 engine instead of the V6 (unless you go automatic and then you get a 400hp V8). Add the RS for a "looks" package.
04-22-2009, 11:02 PM
#51
Gee, I'm real sorry that it doesn't look like a '69. To me that is like saying the C6 aint no C3. So what? It's hard to believe that people prefer the Challenger over the 'Maro. I've seen em side by side and the Chal is a boring slab of blah. Drive both (with fairly equal size engines) and tell me which is the better car.
04-22-2009, 11:08 PM
#52
Team Owner
Gee, I'm real sorry that it doesn't look like a '69. To me that is like saying the C6 aint no C3. So what? It's hard to believe that people prefer the Challenger over the 'Maro. I've seen em side by side and the Chal is a boring slab of blah. Drive both (with fairly equal size engines) and tell me which is the better car.
04-22-2009, 11:29 PM
#55
04-22-2009, 11:35 PM
#56
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ps 3747 lbs eh? Don't take that figure to the bank. My bet is it will tip the scales at close to 4000. It will make a lot of noise and be pretty fast ( about as fast as an SRT8 Cherokee SUV ) but get any camaro of any gen including this new one on twisties and forget it.
The Challenger handles well in the turns (IRS does that to a car even with the heft). I think the Camaro will do fine.
04-23-2009, 01:16 AM
#60
Melting Slicks
Sat in a red SS at the auto show two weeks ago. Impressions? Dashboard was unattractive, but interesting. Materials were top notch. Seats were great, and comfortable. Back seat was a joke, as usual. Getting into the back seat looked all but impossible. The front seats were oversized and tall, reminded me of the seats in our old Acura RSX. Mediocre outward visibility. Huge blind spots. Car was better looking in "person" than in photographs. Don't know why, but pictures do not do this car justice. I thought the front end was too blunt, and it could have used hideaway headlights to tidy the grill area up. The sales rep opened the trunk, and everybody started pointing and laughing: its practically the size of a letter slot, you will have trouble fitting anything through that tiny opening. Really a stupid design; probably should have been a hatch, like the 3rd and 4th Gens. Overall, once the hype dies down I think the new Camaro will sell a solid 40,000 units per year, just like the old Camaro/Firebird, but in the long term it will not be a runaway success. Its a niche vehicle, and an expensive one at that. The biggest problem with its homage to the 1969 model is that "icon" is increasingly irrelevant to the lions share of the car buying public. GM had a chance to reinvent the Camaro, to appeal to a new (younger) generation. Instead, they slavishly followed Ford and Chrysler onto the retro bandwagon (years too late).