Frame job...
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,245
Likes: 4
Frame job...
Some of you will know that I'm preparing to take the bare frame away for treatment. The question is what treatment.
I've received this reply from a company in Toronto that does frame powder-coating.
**************************************** *************
1) we use angular steel grit of various sizes to obtain a blast profile per ssp-sp10 near white metal suitable for powder coating
2) we do not do any chemical dipping
3) we cannot do anything with the inside of the rails, you have two options
a) have the frame hot dip galvanized prior to bringing in for coating this will get inside the rails, we then blast and coat the exterior
b) after the coating is done, have a rust treatment sprayed inside, rust proofing etc.
4) we have a vast array of colours and finishes in stock and even more available from our suppliers some may be at an additional cost however.
Prices start at $750 Canadian (approx. $475 U.S.)
**************************************** *************
Your thoughts please gentlemen.
I've received this reply from a company in Toronto that does frame powder-coating.
**************************************** *************
1) we use angular steel grit of various sizes to obtain a blast profile per ssp-sp10 near white metal suitable for powder coating
2) we do not do any chemical dipping
3) we cannot do anything with the inside of the rails, you have two options
a) have the frame hot dip galvanized prior to bringing in for coating this will get inside the rails, we then blast and coat the exterior
b) after the coating is done, have a rust treatment sprayed inside, rust proofing etc.
4) we have a vast array of colours and finishes in stock and even more available from our suppliers some may be at an additional cost however.
Prices start at $750 Canadian (approx. $475 U.S.)
**************************************** *************
Your thoughts please gentlemen.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 10,866
Likes: 717
From: Beverly Hills/Pine Ridge Florida
Re: Frame job... (67HEAVEN)
I've been involved in powder coating a few frames, and have taken LOTS of parts to be coated...A Frames, etc. In "Merryland", several places will do the entire frame with all accessories....A Frames, brackets, etc. for about $700.00. Regarding the inside, I have a friend who does rustproofing. Has the complete "Rusty Jones" system with the wands, etc. I have him shoot it in the frame rails and crossmembers. The "RediStrip" franchise went out of business around here a decade or so ago. Chuck
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,501
Likes: 0
Re: Frame job... (67HEAVEN)
$750 includes sandblasting? Sounds like a deal to me!! I paid $500 for hot dip degrease & phosphate then powdercoat but sandblasting was separate, done prior.
Does it make sense to galvanize (to get inside rails) and then sandblast it off? If I was gonna galvanize, I'd paint over it, although I've heard it's necessary to spray an intermediate primer. Do they hot dip degrease before powdercoating?
Does it make sense to galvanize (to get inside rails) and then sandblast it off? If I was gonna galvanize, I'd paint over it, although I've heard it's necessary to spray an intermediate primer. Do they hot dip degrease before powdercoating?
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,245
Likes: 4
Re: Frame job... (67HEAVEN)
Prices start at $750 Canadian (approx. $475 U.S.)
Thanks for your replies so far, guys.
Let me be perfectly clear (as Nixon used to say). I would like as much information as possible on the preferred steps to take when re-doing a frame....only proviso is that I end up with something that will stand up well, like powder-coating.
I don't know if I should blast first (if at all), dip second, powder coat third. If I blast, should it be with sand, steel grit, glass....or who knows what?
Should I take the steps outlined by the company mentioned in my first post?
I'm at your mercy. :smash:
Race Director
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 10,866
Likes: 717
From: Beverly Hills/Pine Ridge Florida
Re: Frame job... (67HEAVEN)
The powder coaters down here tell you NOT to blast. You don't save any money as they blast with their own special media which also imparts an ionic charge to the metal. They tell you to bring the parts greasy, dirty, etc. I would suggest letting them powder coat your parts. You can choose from 10 different shades of black !! :) Then....rustproof your rails. Don't make an easy job hard. Powder coating IS that easy. Chuck
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,245
Likes: 4
Re: Frame job... (Chuck Gongloff)
Chuck,
Looks like you agree with the eMail from the company (first post above). He states in point 3.b) "after the coating is done, have a rust treatment sprayed inside..."
I'm presuming that whatever rust-proofing is sprayed inside the frame-rails will easily wipe off the exterior powder-coating prior to drying.
P.S. Chuck, the powder-coating won't be any of those 10 different shades of black you mentioned. Oops, did I say that in the Factory Correct resto section? :crazy: :lol:
Looks like you agree with the eMail from the company (first post above). He states in point 3.b) "after the coating is done, have a rust treatment sprayed inside..."
I'm presuming that whatever rust-proofing is sprayed inside the frame-rails will easily wipe off the exterior powder-coating prior to drying.
P.S. Chuck, the powder-coating won't be any of those 10 different shades of black you mentioned. Oops, did I say that in the Factory Correct resto section? :crazy: :lol:
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,456
Likes: 6
From: Spicewood, Texas, USA TX-Texas
Re: Frame job... (67HEAVEN)
I don't know if I should blast first (if at all), dip second, powder coat third. If I blast, should it be with sand, steel grit, glass....or who knows what?
One of the problems with the inside of the rails is that it is almost impossible to sandblast them clean because you can't get the sand blast nozzle in positions to properly blast everywhere. When I had my frame sand-blasted, I asked the guy who was actually doing the work to attempt to sand-blast as much of the inside rails as he could, and everything I could see was clean.
Then, before I painted the frame, I used a rust-proofing wand to apply POR-15 inside the frame rails. That stuff sticks to anything including rust, and is almost indestructible. Some drawbacks is that the process is messy and wastes a lot of paint. But, I can always go back and add additional rust-proofing material as insurance if I think it's necessary.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,245
Likes: 4
Re: Frame job... (Chuck Sangerhausen)
Interesting contribution, Texas Chuck. Each of you are helping me get closer to a decision - looks like it will be simpler than first imagined.
What is the location of the frame stamps? I believe that they are on the upper side of the driver's frame rail near the driver's seat location. Is that correct. Can you narrow it down further. The numbers are not visible (yet) under the dirt and rust.
[Modified by 67HEAVEN, 6:51 AM 1/9/2002]
>>>better decide how you are going to handle the VIN derivative stamps. Maybe you can convince him to cover them or avoid direct blasting right on the stamps.
[Modified by 67HEAVEN, 6:51 AM 1/9/2002]
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Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,456
Likes: 6
From: Spicewood, Texas, USA TX-Texas
Re: Frame job... (67HEAVEN)
On later frames, there is one VIN derivative stamp on the top of the driver side frame rail right under the door threshold, and the second VIN derivative stamp is on the top of the driver side kick up rail toward the rear of the wheelwell.
If the stamps are not in those locations on midjeers, I don't know where they are located. You'll need some help from the midjeer guys.
If the stamps are not in those locations on midjeers, I don't know where they are located. You'll need some help from the midjeer guys.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,501
Likes: 0
Re: Frame job... (67HEAVEN)
I re-read the submission from company A and it appears they don't degrease which suprises me since the grease would make a mess of their blasting media in short order.
So the question is do you:
A) degrease it yourself with detergent & pressure washer
B) have the frame dipped
C) skip degreasing altogether
There shouldn't be a significant amount of grease inside the frame rail but there will be loads of dirt & rust which you'll want out of there before rust proofing. Hmmm.
So the question is do you:
A) degrease it yourself with detergent & pressure washer
B) have the frame dipped
C) skip degreasing altogether
There shouldn't be a significant amount of grease inside the frame rail but there will be loads of dirt & rust which you'll want out of there before rust proofing. Hmmm.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,245
Likes: 4
Re: Frame job... (Mac)
I re-read the submission from company A and it appears they don't degrease which suprises me since the grease would make a mess of their blasting media in short order.
I think I'm gonna tackle it this way:
1. Degrease it myself.
2. Wire brush the surface rust myself so I can see it prior to blasting.
3. Clean up the left over weld where the rollbar and tow bar brackets were.
4. Clean up a few of the Friday evening original welds on the frame. Ugh! (Note: Not a whole lot of improvement.....just enough to make it look like a Wednesday afternoon weld job. :D )
5. Take it in for the blasting, coating plan mentioned in the first post in this thread.
6. Spray rust-inhibitor inside the frame rails.
7. Clean up the overspray.
Comments anyone?
P.S. Thanks for all the guidance.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,501
Likes: 0
Re: Frame job... (67HEAVEN)
How much wirebrushing are you planning to do? Unless you really enjoy breathing powdered ferrous oxidation and picking those little wires outta your clothes and skin, I'd just hit the point I wanted to inspect or weld and let the sandblasting take care of the rest. Other than that, it sounds like a plan to me.
As for fixing the welds, if you took my extensive knowledge of welding skills and stuck it all into a thimble, you'd still have room for your thumb, but I feel confident stating that I could likely do a better job of welding than some of those highly paid professional welders who were tacking together frames for GM. Honestly, some of the welds on my 73 were so lousy, I'm surprised they've never split or cracked. At one point, on the driver's kickup, you can see where he (or she) dragged the rod between welds. Of course, it's possible my car was made on "Bring Your Own Bottle Day" at the factory.
As for fixing the welds, if you took my extensive knowledge of welding skills and stuck it all into a thimble, you'd still have room for your thumb, but I feel confident stating that I could likely do a better job of welding than some of those highly paid professional welders who were tacking together frames for GM. Honestly, some of the welds on my 73 were so lousy, I'm surprised they've never split or cracked. At one point, on the driver's kickup, you can see where he (or she) dragged the rod between welds. Of course, it's possible my car was made on "Bring Your Own Bottle Day" at the factory.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,456
Likes: 6
From: Spicewood, Texas, USA TX-Texas
Re: Frame job... (Mac)
At one point, on the driver's kickup, you can see where he (or she) dragged the rod between welds.
From the workmanship, it appears that the guys at the frame plant were "turnin' and burnin' ". They probably had a quota to turn out, with a mean foreman kicking their butt every time they straightened up.