You guys that own 4-post lifts, can you help me plan for mine? I've got one on order and need to get the garage prepped for it. In order to be able to park the '69 on top and keep the daily driver under it, I'll have to raise the garage door tracks to be closer to the ceiling. I've got 11.5 foot ceiling height in there, but the door is a 7' tall by 16' wide standard double door.

Basically, I think I'll have to raise the tracks that are parallel to the floor up as close to the ceiling as possible. Then I'll have to "bridge" in some new track to extend the door vertically to reach it. Another problem comes with trying to figure out how to use the existing automatic garage door opener with the new track setup and layout.

Anyone have any helpful advice of what you did and what worked (or didn't!).

Thanks, Shannon

 

Find the tag on your door that identifies the manufacturer of it, and contact a dealer for that brand. Chances he has a kit that will raise the torsion springs and tracks. John

:seeya

 

Good question. We have 16ft ceilings, no issue! =)

Sorry I can't help.

 

Thanks for all the replies so far, guys. I am having a few guys come look at it to give me estimates, but it seems like they see $$$$ in their eyes and are eager to do a huge amount of overkill to get this to work. On guy came out tonight and is interested in replacing the door with a 10.5' tall one, and then using a new "progressive" spring to handle the bigger door, and also a brand new spring-mounted opener which will sit vertically on the new spring. I'm not looking to drop another $1k on this for that kind of overkill.

I was looking it over some more. If I can replace the 90 degree bend with a 45, then add a section of straight track up to near the ceiling, then another 45 to attach to the horizontal tracks, that would work. I'd need to fabricate an extension to attach the opener "arm" to the door. This extension would need to be a "T" shape, with the top of the "T" having a roller on each end to ride in the track, and the bottom of the "T" attaching where the existing opener arm attaches. That would function in the same manner as the door does now, by transferring the horizontal motion of the opener to lift the door. I can't imagine that such a system would add enough weight to overwhelm the garage door spring.

Any thoughts on this?

 

Shannon, I had exactly the same situation. I hired a professional garage door guy. He raised my motor and opening track to within 6-8"of the ceiling. He added a panel to the garage door to allow the arm which goes from the opening track to the top of the door to reach. The normal springs were discarded and a single spring was mounted to the wall above the door making the door a high lift door. It works perfectly. I store the 71 on the lift and there is adequate room for my daily driver underneath. My ceiling height is only 10"-8".

 

Dave, how much did it cost ya', if I could be so bold to ask? The only guy who's come out so far seemed to think that I needed to rework the whole thing to the tune of $1k. I know that it can be done right for less cash. The wife is already breaking my, ahem, about the lift purchase, so I want to minimize additional cash outlay while still doing the job right.

Thanks,
Shannon

 

sb, having recently installed two garage doors myself, I think your plan is all wet. You can't just be adding 90 deg bends here, and 45 deg bends there.

The solution is much simpler: If you observe the side tracks of your garage door, you will note that they slope closer to the door opening as they approach the floor. That slope permits the door to close tightly when fully closed, yet be easy to open because the tight fit begins to widen as soon as the door moves. And those long radius elbow tracks that transition to the horizontal tracks...well, you're pretty much stuck with those because they are designed to allow the door sections to make the turn, one section after the other, without binding.

My suggestion: Simply fabricate the necessary brackets to add an section to extend the side tracks higher at the same slope as the existing. Better yet, attempt to locate longer track sections that will match the cross-sectional dimensions of your existing track to eliminate any joints in the side track. Joints make your door rollers go "bumpety-bumpety-bumpety" as the door goes up; the fewer joints I have, the better I like it.

You will also need to fabricate new brackets or modify the existing brackets to mount the existing 90 deg elbow tracks higher and further away from the front wall to mate with the extended side track. This will also shift the end of the horizontal tracks rearward away from the door opening requiring the horizontal track support brackets to be relocated. They will have to be modified to support the horizontal tracks closer to the ceiling anyway.

I hope you have some hefty torsion springs, because once that top section goes "over the hump", the full weight of the door is on the counterbalance springs. The additional height of your extended track will cause this maximum load to be applied longer than it would normally, until the door is fully closed.

Garage door opener. I am afraid you are SOL on the door opener. The door opener mounting height is pretty much set by the height of the door. Assuming you have two 7' X 8' or one 7' X 8' and one 14' X 8',I would install the existing door opener centered on the other door for my wife, and leave the lift door (7' X 8') to be opened manually. Not a bad idea when you consider all the things that could go wrong with garage doors and openers.

 

Chuck, thanks for the advice, even though I'm not sure I'm "all wet". :) Just a couple of points to clarify what I'm working with. I have a single 16' wide x 7' high door. I've got to make the opener work with the new setup, or my rear end is in a sling for sure. I don't know if continuing the existing "slope" will allow the door to clear the spring as it is currently set up. I'll take a closer look tomorrow. If so, then I would be more than happy to follow your suggestions and extend the side rails up, and re-use the top rail and 90 degree bend that is a single piece of track.

I do think that I can fab up some kind of extension to allow the opener to work. The garage door guy I talked to tonight was suggesting adding 2 panels to the top side of the door, in order to bring the top edge of the door closer to the ceiling so the opener can attach to it. Rather than paying for real door sections, I think that a "T" or sideways "H" frame can be constructed at the same dimensions to provide a lift point for the opener to work on the new configuration.

Thanks again for your input,
Shannon

 

Shannon, if I had seen Dave Strickland's post before I started my long dissertation, I would have skipped the post...that seems like the best approach to me.

You're probably an engineer, so you have a good idea of what can and can't be accomplished with your idea of a "T" or horizontal "H" bracket if you think it through. The problem is that the bracket will have to transfer a lot of moment to the top door section without excessive deflection of the bracket and without adding so much concentrated load to the door that it buckles the door section. By adding door section(s), you are artificially raising the opener link attachment point without adding any rigid structure that may not interact with the track system like you expect.

In the normal installation, the opener link is located such that as soon as the opener begins to drag the link rearward, the door is drawn rearward and UPWARD on the 90 deg elbow track. Note that the topmost roller is already located on the elbow track when the door is fully closed.

And, that concludes my crude, futile attempts at designing garage door systems. No insult was intended by saying your ideas were all "wet". :D :D

 

Shannon,
You'll need new tracks, cables, springs, drums, bearing plates, etc... and depending on how much high lift you add to your door, a new Garage Door Opener. Take my advice, hire a professional to do the job.
I've been doing this work for over 20 years, and have owned my business for 10 years now. DON'T PLAY AROUND WITH THE SPRINGS ON THE DOOR! I have several customers how have been seriously injured screwing around with them, they didnt know what they were doing and a couple of them lost fingers because of it.

This job would take me about 1-2 hours to do (without the opener) and cost about $200-300

 

Since you're not making the opening any larger, why would you need an extra panel, let along two?

The current opener is probably hanging from the ceiling on a brace, right? Well, you need a shorter brace. You should be able to raise the existing rail system and add extensions at the bottom or replace the upright sections with longer ones. Either way means longer cables & drums but the cost shouldn't cost too much. They can usually tuck the door up within 6 to 8 inches of the ceiling. Whether you get to use your existing opener depends on how much clearance it requires.

All the cautions about the springs are legitimate. I scared myself pretty good with a double spring once- only once; I learn quick! Hire a professional, especially if you've never seen what's involved.

 

Thanks to everyone for all this excellent advice. Chuck, thanks for explaining the moment/upward/rearward motion that is transferred by the opener. I understand how it works, but it's been a while since my engineering dynamics class, so I couldn't put it into words as well as you did.

As I mentioned, I am seeking the advice of professionals. I just wanted to know what I could do on my own. I'll admit that I didn't have the knowledge or respect for the door spring before, but I sure do now. I've thought about it some more and I think I understand why I'll need to relocate the spring and relocate it so it is at the same point where the track turns from vertical to horizontal. The longer cables will be needed for the additional travel from the spring mounting point down to the bottom of the drum, and a heavier spring will be needed if I add more weight to the door in the way of extra panels or some kind of extension to get the top roller into the 90 degree bend at the top of the track.

Any more advice is greatly appreciated. I'll post when I get another quote from the installer that's coming out here Monday.

Shannon

 

Shannon, Pleasure Pig(Chris) is right on. He is local to me and I am aware of his customers satisfaction with his work. I should have hired Crris but had another local installer as I was unaware of his company at that time. Chris rember meeting me at Carlisle? A friend of J. Forman. My guy charged me $275 to rework the tracks above the door onening, raise the motor and track, and add a section t the top of the door to allow the hanging knee to reach the new increased distance from top of door to motor track. You have a 16" door and mine is the normal 8"-6". I can see why a 16" door is much more expensive, but 1K sounds like a lot. Let Chris guide yothrough it. Emil me if I can help further. Good Luck.

 

Hi Dave, Yes I do remember you. How have you been?

Like I said in my earlier post, I've been doing this type of work for over 20 years and I know what I'm talking about. I do, on average, about 5 of these a year for the past several years. Lifts have become very popular recently and reworking the door can be very tricky if you are not trained to do this properly. I have seen some descriptions and even some pics on the CF of work others have done themselves, and i'm surprised they actually work.

You have 11' 6" of headroom, so you can fit 3 1/2'- 4' for high lift. You will need to buy new drums for the cables to wrap around, They will need to be high lift drums as compared to the flat drums you have right now, longer cables, and possibly new springs. New springs will be necessary if you add a lot of lift or if you add any weight, as in an extra section to the door.

You do not need to add a section to the door in order to do this. Some sections, depending on the make of door, can cost up to $300+, just for the section. If you're spending that much $ on the section, I say forget about the section and change your operator. You have whats called a "drawbar" operator now. It's designed to start pulling the door horizontially almost immediately, not vertically. Change it over to a "jackshaft" operator. This type mounts to the front wall of the garage and has a chain and 2 gears that connect the operator and the shaft that has the springs on it. The motor will open/close the door by turning the shaft and springs. The $ you'll save on the extra section will pay for the operator. It will also get the motor off the ceiling and provide more headroom for the car on the lift. The ideal operator for this situation is made by Lift Master and is called an LGO operator. It is designed for light duty, home use, and high lift track situations. It will come with radio controls buily in and can have photo lites, (highly recommended) added on very easily and inexensively.

good luck and let me know how it turnd out :)

this link will give you a good idea about the different types of tracks available
http://www.doorsys.com/gdr_trax.htm


[Modified by Pleasure Pig, 10:41 AM 2/9/2002]

 

Here's another approach (a friend's garage, not mine):

 

Well, another "professional" showed up this morning, and what a waste it was. Chris, are you planning to head through NC any time soon? These folks I'm dealing with are murder! He had to call the office 4 times before he could understand what needed to be done, then left a nice quote of $1100 for the job! :mad :mad

All I want to do is to go from a standard lift to a high-lift as pictured here (thanks Chris!)


So I think I understand what is needed.

1 - Longer cables, since the spring will be mounted higher. Will I need different drums? Since the total trave of the door isn't changing, the existing drums should hold the length of cable needed to lift the door, right?

2- A stronger spring, since some of the weight of the door will have to be held up by the spring when the door is in the "up" position. With the longer vertical track, only about 1/2 of the door will be in the horizontal track when it's up.

3 - A longer piece of vertical track for high-lift.

4 - Something attached to the top of the door to position a roller close to the radius of the bend from vertical to horizontal. These guys are quoting 2 new sections of door, but that still seems like unneeded expense for something that's not visible from the outside.

Am I missing anything? Thanks again for all the advice so far,
Shannon

 

Sorry, duplicate post thanks to the server being out to lunch....


[Modified by sb69coupe, 1:59 PM 2/11/2002]

 

Shannon, As I mentioned in my prior post I added 1 section of door to raise the motor and track approx. 3 feet. I went from the 2 springs (1 on each side) to the one drum spring on the wall over the door opening. At the top of the door opening on each side new track was added to begin to allow the door to move away from the wall as it goes up and ultimately(12" below the ceiling) it goes horizontal. To save $ I used the same motor etc. Cost was $275 in Mass. which is not a cheap state. Took the mechanic about 1 1/2 hours. How much are you raising the motor???

 

Dave,

I'm only trying to raise the door and opener by about 3 feet as well. That's what has gotten me so frustrated with this. I don't want to drop $1k to have someone add essentially half of a brand new door and replace every piece of hardware just because they couldn't get creative to solve the problem. :mad

I'm gonna fly Chris down here and get him to do the work for me :D

Shannon

 

hhmmmm, a free trip to NC? :D :D I actually am coming down through NC in April on my way to the C5 Birthday Bash in BG. I'll be traveling with about 16 other Vettes. We are going to check out the Biltmore on our way through.


Yes you will need longher cables and new drums.

Here is a quick lesson in high lift doors.

1.) The idea is for the cable to wrap around the drum and hit the flat part of the drum at the same time the top roller hits the horizontal track. It is all about the weigh transfer of the door. You will notice on the drums you have now they are pretty much flat. This is because the door turns almost immediately onto the Horizontal track. In a high lift situation, the roller doesn't hit the horiz track for 3' (depending on the amount of lift). Therefore the total weight of the door is being lifted for that 3'. when the door starts to hit the horiz track the wieght of the door will change constantly and continue to change until it is completely open.
If the door companies down there are adding 2 sections to the door, you will not need to change the drums, but you will need to change the spring. You just added a lot of weight to the door, actually it now weighs 1 1/2 times more than it did.

More weight=bigger spring to balance the extra weight.

Go into any gas station, Jiffy Lube, or any place that might have a lift and look at the springs and drums and you'll see what I mean. Many warehouses have similar set ups and some even have Vertical lift track, where they run straight up the wall. On these door the cables wont ever hit the flat part of the drum, as a matter of fact, there is no flat part of the drum, because the door never goes horizontal.

2.) To me adding the 2 sections is a waste of $$, and that is probably why it is costing so much, you're basically buying another 1/2 of a door.

3.) Look at the diagram in your previous post. See how the track angles away from the building, it does this for a reason. Now look at your door, notice how the hinges are spaced differently as they go higher on the door. This is all designed so the door "breaks away" from the door jamb. It has to. If it doesn't, the door will rub the whole way up and even rub on the moulding on the header(and the weather stripping if you have any), you don't need or want this friction. Also if you have a handle on the outside of the door, it will bang on the header if it doesn't break away. This is even more important in a high lift situation.

You can just add 3' of track on each side to give you 3' of high lift, but you must continue to have it break away from the building at the same angle or more of an angle (this is prefered). When you do this the horizontal track, which includes the turning radius will be farther away from the front of the building. Now you either have to replace it with the correct track or add onto the existing track. If you add onto it, make sure you use the same gauge steel or something a little thicker. There is a lot of weight to this door and you do not want it to land on your Corvette.


You might want to call a company that does some commercial work, they would be more familiar with high lift situations.


I hope some of this helps and keep me posted on what eventually happens :cheers: