Do your homework gentlemen!!!!!
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,245
Likes: 4
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,833
Likes: 15
From: Southeast La
Re: Do your homework gentlemen!!!!! (67HEAVEN)
Situations like this can ruin a company, especially when it gets out on the web. Read the post on C3 on the four post lift collapsing, for example.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,456
Likes: 6
From: Spicewood, Texas, USA TX-Texas
Re: Do your homework gentlemen!!!!! (lbell101)
HOMEWORK? That specimen is pre-homework...it's finger painting, paste and scissors. :D
If you have been to Chevy kindergarten, you would know that was a fake. Broach marks, if visible, are parallel lines that run across the pad, i.e. in the direction of engine's length. They resulted from huge broaching machines that literally "shaved" the head fit area of the engine block, and made the flat surface on the stamp pad at the same time. These "marks" are clearly sanded by hand because the lines are not all parallel, and they are along the length of the pad rather than across the pad. It was probably done after the dope had assembled the head to the engine.
The original stamped numbers were "gang stamped" meaning the individual number stamps were installed in a fixture that would force the bottoms and tops of the numbers to be in a straight line, and not wandering around like these.
It's too bad people do their research AFTER they have been screwed to the door by some shyster.
If you have been to Chevy kindergarten, you would know that was a fake. Broach marks, if visible, are parallel lines that run across the pad, i.e. in the direction of engine's length. They resulted from huge broaching machines that literally "shaved" the head fit area of the engine block, and made the flat surface on the stamp pad at the same time. These "marks" are clearly sanded by hand because the lines are not all parallel, and they are along the length of the pad rather than across the pad. It was probably done after the dope had assembled the head to the engine.
The original stamped numbers were "gang stamped" meaning the individual number stamps were installed in a fixture that would force the bottoms and tops of the numbers to be in a straight line, and not wandering around like these.
It's too bad people do their research AFTER they have been screwed to the door by some shyster.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 2,897
Likes: 0
From: Moon Township PA
Re: Do your homework gentlemen!!!!! (lbell101)
Nah, that looks totallly original. However, it was done on a Monday, by a guy who just coming off of a three day drunk and just got his layoff notice from GM. :D You don't need to be an expert to see how bad that one is.
Gary
Now that's gotta be the worst restamp job I've ever seen!
Obviously not original.
Obviously not original.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,359
Likes: 116
From: AUSTIN Tx
Re: Do your homework gentlemen!!!!! (67HEAVEN)
Unfortunately, it just goes to show that there are a large number of people who will buy a car based upon what the seller represents it to be. Even a basic course in pad identification would show that this car is a fraud! But get serious folks; the buyer needs to assume a good part of the blame in this transaction, as he did not exercise even basic due diligence in the purchase. Anyone who buys a high priced classic muscle car such as this and does not take the time to research the car or hire someone who has the knowledge to inspect it, is just looking to be taken advantage of. I feel for the guy, but he walked in the dealer with the equivalent of a "KICK ME" sign on his back!
:seeya
:seeya
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Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,245
Likes: 4
Re: Do your homework gentlemen!!!!! (John McGraw)
Keep in mind, folks, that no regular contributor here would fall for something like this....but casual viewers and hopeful buyers wander by every day.
This message is aimed at them....not youse sophisticated dudes!!!
This message is aimed at them....not youse sophisticated dudes!!!
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,456
Likes: 6
From: Spicewood, Texas, USA TX-Texas
Re: Do your homework gentlemen!!!!! (67HEAVEN)
...but casual viewers and hopeful buyers wander by every day
Pro
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 526
Likes: 34
From: Mt. Laurel NJ
Re: Do your homework gentlemen!!!!! (Chuck Sangerhausen)
Didn't they go out of business? Their WEB site went down about 6 months ago and the building they were in is empty. Maybe they moved.
CUL Jim
CUL Jim
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 38,897
Likes: 1,926
From: Washington Michigan
Re: Do your homework gentlemen!!!!! (Jim_C)
I'm familiar with this one - the guy bought the car sight unseen, over the phone after seeing the ad on-line from the dealer, who goes bankrupt twice a year and is back in business again the next day under a different name. The guy called the best Camaro authenticator/appraiser in the business and asked if he thought it was a good deal, and was told there was no way to tell without examining the car hands-on; the buyer declined the offer to authenticate the car ($200 fee), and went ahead and bought it anyway ($33,000.00), then paid another $1500 to have it shipped cross-country. The guy went bananas when it rolled off the truck (didn't run) and saw the kindergarten re-stamps, and is suing the dealer. The dealer told him to get stuffed, as they advertised it only as "matching numbers" and made no claim that any of it was "original". Classic case of big eyes, fat wallet, no brains; $200 to have the best guy in the country authenticate it would have saved him all the money and grief, but he figured he knew better. NOT! :(
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,456
Likes: 6
From: Spicewood, Texas, USA TX-Texas
Re: Do your homework gentlemen!!!!! (JohnZ)
So, John, what does that make that Camaro worth now assuming the restoration is otherwise nice? Maybe $10K-$15K?
Only one thing to do...fergit lawyers and litagation. Pull the engine, tear it down, make a skim cut on the decks, have the pad stamps professionally "restored", reassemble and reinstall the engine, and...after that your ethics will have to be your guide. You can either have a nice, albeit compromised, Camaro in your collection, or you can sell it, informing the buyer about the stamp (restored after decking), or...well, fergit other alternatives. :D :D
Only one thing to do...fergit lawyers and litagation. Pull the engine, tear it down, make a skim cut on the decks, have the pad stamps professionally "restored", reassemble and reinstall the engine, and...after that your ethics will have to be your guide. You can either have a nice, albeit compromised, Camaro in your collection, or you can sell it, informing the buyer about the stamp (restored after decking), or...well, fergit other alternatives. :D :D
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,501
Likes: 0
Re: Do your homework gentlemen!!!!! (Chuck Sangerhausen)
Only one thing to do...fergit lawyers and litagation.
Pull the engine, tear it down, make a skim cut on the decks, have the pad stamps professionally "restored", reassemble and reinstall the engine, and...after that your ethics will have to be your guide.
You can either have a nice, albeit compromised, Camaro in your collection, or you can sell it, informing the buyer about the stamp (restored after decking), or...
You hadda know I'd want a piece of this one, Chuck!
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,456
Likes: 6
From: Spicewood, Texas, USA TX-Texas
Re: Do your homework gentlemen!!!!! (Mac)
If you've decided to have the pad stamps skim cut & "restored", the question of ethics is moot.
You hadda know I'd want a piece of this one, Chuck!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,501
Likes: 0
Re: Do your homework gentlemen!!!!! (Chuck Sangerhausen)
Yeah, there you go pointing at the badge jes' lak yew said. :jester