I was surfing through the NCRS Technical Board and saw your excellent post; I admire a woman with guts! I hope you don't mind me taking the liberty of posting it here, but in my judgement, it's definitely a must read for those who don't surf over there! :cheers:

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Who's tugging the shorts now?

Posted By: Juliet #32595 <Juliet@annapolis.net>
Date: Friday, 24 May 2002, at 6:47 a.m.

In Response To: Re: Wow faulty vacuum hoses, who wouda thunk (Bob Magnus)

Seems to me I read that phrase on the internet somewhere... Oh yeah, it's on the Good Dr.Attitude's page dedicated to yours truly. You know, that webpage where he fantasizes about me writing dirty in my oh so 'authoratative' style.
http://docrebuild.com/dr-r-web/CorvetteForamen.html

So, just because I like to help out folks & give something back to the car clubs (here & on CF and C3VR), offering up when I can, what knowledge I do have that makes me 'long in the tooth?' Yeah, I talk a lot too and you know what, I even ask questions when I have them! Amazing huh? I've never proclaimed myself to be an expert, but I have put a lot of time and effort in educating myself and I have picked up a few things along the way. Sure, I've only owned corvettes for a few years, but I like to pay attention to & talk about the details and I acutally work on my cars *myself*.

I'm just as entitled to form my opinion as anyone else. And if I want to base my opinions on conversations with a different (younger) crowd who are you or anyone else to fault me for that? Looking at some of the 'old timers' I see they generally end up in one of two camps: 1) Neat, openminded indivduals who are willing to help out and share that knowledge and actually admit there is still stuff to learn & discover. 2)Those who have long since lost their yearning for knowledge and have replaced it with cynicism and attempt to squelch the enthusiasm in others. Heaven forbid I actually go up the learning curve faster than they did - I have the internet to thank for that BTW. Group 2 may still possess a wealth of technical knowledge, probably even more than I'll ever have, but frankly I'd rather learn it myself the hard way than deal with the onerous attitude.

Fortunately for NCRS, the vast majority fall into group 1). Fortunately NCRS is ensuring their future by embracing C4s and making strides towards bringing them into the judging arena. That alone will do more to bring younger blood and open minds into the organization than just about anything else - and yeah, this is all one gal's opinion.

The corollary: It's not how much you know, it's how you use what you've got. ~Juliet
http://www.1970corvetteregistry.ORG

 

:cheers:

 

Sometimes I wonder if I should just ignore it though... take the traffic-jam-less high road as Mac would say. ;)

 

"Sometimes I wonder if I should just ignore it though... take the traffic-jam-less high road as Mac would say."

Oh yeah....this is what I do all the time :smash:

 

Juliet always take the high road.Life is very short and fragile.Dont sweat the petty things.Too much good stuff going on to deal with bad stuff.In the end none of this will matter.Be happy then share your happyness with some body else.

 

I read the NCRS threads and then briefly skimmed the Dr. R webpage and I, for one, can't believe a businessman would indulge in such activities. His ramblings paranoias weren't all that interesting.

Juliet, like I said, take the high road! You don't have to ignore his efforts but don't respond in kind. Let him burn his own bridges. If someone is gullible enough to accept his word, do you really care what they think? When more discriminating people ask for the truth, tell them.

Your point in the NCRS thread about there being two classes (learning vs stagnant) was very well stated. I think some of the second group resent the vitality of those of us who are still learning. Those of us who are not 'set in stone' must remember the stagnant ones were once like us.

When I first hit the Forum, I had some fairly inaccurate ideas of what NCRS was about and I've overcome most of them. Mind you, some of my ideas weren't that far off either.

 

So, does that mean I should or shouldn't hand him the gasoline and matches? :jester

 

It appears to me that sparks are already flying so matches won't like be required. :lol:

 

I, for one, am very concerned about the NCRS starting to stagnant. I was part of a committee looking at the posibility of putting the Driveline online as an electronic listing of items for sell. The board voted that down. One comment that was made to me but a very senior NCRS officer was that a member with a very "low" membership number had stated that if the Driveline was put online they would resign. My thought was "So, who cares?". The NCRS is stuck in the past. But that is the nature of the organization, they are trying to maintain something the way is was "back then". I can understand the standards for maintaining the cars, but keeping the organization in the past has to go. Come on NCRS, time to catch up with the times.

Also, for Juliet's post, I just looked at the thread over on the NCRS site. Looks to me like the Doc made a post, Juliet took a shot at him, Bob defended the Doc, and then Juliet made the post above. After that it all fell apart into a bunch of name calling (but not by Juliet). Guess everyone has their opinions, just have to be careful to not push someone to making a response that may later regret. Susprising that thread has remained, usualy if it is something that "they" consider politicaly incorrect it gets deleted.

tom...

 

You go girl :) Missed that thread on the NCRS board. Went back and read it. I, too, am surprised that it's still there. Chuck

 

The NCRS reminds me so much of the NCAA and the way they regulate College Football. Their pias attitude and, "we will lead and the village idiots will follow" mentality will catch up to them sooner or later.

As for this Doc person...who ever said you had to talk or do business with him to form an opinion...I read the first two paragraphs of that BS and thought... 'I would rather listen to Hillary Clinton give a two hour speech on empowering the gay womenhood of America', than to read this garbage.

Like my Dad always told me, Better to be thought stupid, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Well, this guy is not doing that very well.

 

:D Good one. Yes, NCRS is very political and 'olde-boy network'-y. But so are many other things in this world. If you want to play in their game, you play by their rules. And actually, the same can be said of Dr.Attitude's business - which is why I have NEVER ordered from him and NEVER will, but I digress... But out here on cyberland his biz rules don't apply (as much as he might want them to). ;)

I'm sorry to hear about the online Driveline thing. :( But, times are changing and while some at NCRS may be trying to resist it and succeeding for now, it won't always be that way. Remember, it's a group of people with a common interest. The club is made up of US. Eventually (not overnight!) what the US thinks and feels will be reflected in the direction the club goes. Otherwise it will no longer exist. I'm confident that change will happen, it's probably just not the time now (for whatever archaic reasons they're coming up with to which I am not privy.) Many of these two and three digit guys started the organization. It's been almost 30 years of their vision and hard work which brought the club to what it is today. Out of respect for that (maybe I'm old world? I dunno :confused: ) let them keep it that way for now. Indulge them in their that's the way it's always been preferences. Soon it'll be our turn. :yesnod: As one who is still in the 30-something club I figure I've got at least another 30 years to be one of the US in NCRS and make the changes we need for our generation. That's why it's so important to me for NCRS to get the C4 judging going. That's the new lifeline for the club. That's what will bring more of the cyber saavy 30-somethings into it and help adjust the mindset. We'll be like the borg - resistance is futile. :jester Patience says the gal who is always getting into trouble since she has none. :lol: Ya know, do what I say, not what I do. :smash:

 

Like with most organizations, if NCRS doesn't evolve with the times, splinter organizations will be established. Sadly, that tends to weaken rather than strengthen the cause, but it also seems to smarten up the slow-to-change organization.

As for Dr. Attitude.........I've been amazed for a very long time........I continue to be amazed.

I have never purchased from his company and therefore cannot comment on his products or service, but I can tell you why I never would buy from his company. Why would I offer my name, address, phone number and credit card number to a person in this state of mind???????? :crazy:

If his company is the only one in the world with a part that I need, I'll hire someone to make me one.

 

Reform by evolution, not revolution? Organizations that are slow to change seems to be a theme lately, at least in my sphere. The RCMP is a paramilitary organization with rank structure (commissioner officers on top, non-comms in the middle, grunts like me actually doing the work) and an 'old boy's network' deeply entrenched. I might not mind so bad if I had a highly ranked insider pulling strings for me :D but I don't :nonod: and I like to think that even if I did, I wouldn't take advantage of the relationship.

For the past ten years, RCMP upper management have been talking and moving towards a "business model" management to improve efficiency. Change is slow in coming and the unstated reason is the reluctance for non-comms to modify their management style (command & control) to more modern, more effective manpower policies. Unfortunately, the upper eschelon is drawn from the middle management so change trickles instead of flowing.

Since my move to the Greater Vancouver area, I've been working at an enforcement unit where the Operations non-comm (OPS NCO) is the quintessential command & control fanatic and a micro-manager to boot. After a couple of minor clashes with him, I've avoided further problems. His final retirement is May 28 and the office staff are having a hard time getting people to sign a card or donate money to get him a 'happy retirement gift' which is sad when you consider this individual has given 35 years of his life to the organization. I signed the card in words to this effect "The office won't be the same without you." Isn't politics wonderful?

The thrust of this post (I knew you were waiting for me to come to the point) is change will come to the NCRS but only when those in authority drop the reins AND only if the next generation are willing to make a difference. If the ones waiting for the reins are as conservative as the ones dropping them, nothing will change.

 

Yes and yes. As long as the organization doesn't go extinct in the midst of the evolutionary process. ;) There may be some things about the club - the running of the club - that I disagree with, but there are many things about the club - what they do for corvettes & to keep us all interested in this hobby - which shouldn't change. :cool: The question is do they drop the reins or carefully hand them over to only the conservative types? :boxing

 

Having never joined the NCRA, I am not familiar with their charter and organization. Is the management done by a board of elected officers? Are local chapters autonomous?

 

Regarding my post made earlier. I knew I had the e-mail somewhere and just ran across it today. Here is the quote from a very senior NCRS offical:

There are many members, and I've heard from at least 25, (mostly members that have been around for 15 or more years), that don't own a computer, will never buy one and aren't interested in the internet. I was with a member last week, (double digit membership number) and after talking about the electronic version, he told me he would drop out of the organization after 25 years if it came to be that we put the Driveline online before or very soon after the printed version.

Just thought I would share.

tom...

 

What a shame. He probably thinks women should still be barefoot and pregnant, and blacks ought to stand in the back of the bus. :nonod:

 

Tom, the attitude conveyed in that letter is exactly the reason I haven't joined the NCRS. The guy referred to in the letter (the low digit guy) is like a little kid, when he doesn't get his way he takes his ball and goes home. I already have way too many magazines cluttering the coffee table. An e-zine would be an excellent idea. :cheers:

AC

 

There are a few apples in every batch. The way I see it is that they're the old timers. Been around forever, but won't last forever. The time for the next generation of attitudes to guide the organization is here. I try to learn what I can from them since the low NCRS # people usually are just walking encyclopedias of information (when their memories aren't going that is). :D So out of respect, I just humor and Yes Sir them and then go on my merry way. I won't let a few attitudes dissuade me from what I see as the benefits of the organization as a whole. That would just give them the power they so desire. I'll join DESPITE that attitude, and just do what I can to change it. ;) ~Juliet