I was just browsing the NCRS board and was reading an interesting thread that basically said in the one gentlemans opinion that the Corvette enthusiast is aging and there will be a point when there will be more classic Corvettes and parts than people that will want them. :sad: I personally am 38 years old and have been a Corvette nut since my early teens but I am concerned for the long term outlook of our fine hobby. While there will always be people that will want classic Corvettes the problem IMHO that the percentage of classic car enthusiasts will be much lower. I hope that I am mistaken.

 

It's an interesting concept but somehow, I doubt it'll ever happen. Today's cars don't seem to be "classic" material- too generic. There will always be a market for old Vettes.

Actually, it might be nice if the guy was right. Maybe then the prices would become more reasonable and I could afford a midyear! :D

 

Could be, just look at the current market for Model T's and Model A's. They were very popular but interest has dropped off as the generation that grew up with them has started to die off. So much of the old car market has to do with what you grew up with. I am concerned that for the new generation it will be Honda's for them :( . I think it has alot to do with trying to recapture our youth.

tom...

 

Count me among the worriers, too.

 

Hey, I am 36 and love the old vettes, but I agree that I am not near the average age owner of these cars. I feel very young in this feild but see clearly that the knowledge of these cars is going away. The average kid now doesn't seem to care about stuff like this, its a new game, or movie, or computer program. Even automotive tech's look at a carb and dont know what to do with it, they like computors and fuel injection. pretty soon who will be able to even find someone to work on one of these??? I can, but none of my freinds can.........

 

SBR,
I think the markets and buyers might change over the years...for instance now you might see buyer's motivated to buy for judging purposes, where in ten or twenty years you might see just car collectors buying with no background in Vettes.

I will tell you one thing, I've noticed being in several different business's...and that is each generation I see is more wealthier than the previous. I know that's nothing earth shattering, but it's true, kids today have a heekuva lot more wealth than even I did ten or fifteen years ago, I think thei parents are leaving them more, have more to help them with when their young and so forth...my point being, no, I don't think the prices of vettes will fall, and that will be a main reason. My $.02

 

I am 37. I remember trying to build a model car of EVERY year Corvette when I was a kid. I would also go down to the Chev. dealer and get a brochure to keep each year (still have them). I loved the new ones all throughout the late 70's, little did I realize what low HP they were. But, they symbolized sports car and styling to me. I picked up a magazine in the late 70's that had an article on a 67, 427/435, blue roadster. I can still remember thinking what an awesome machine that was and to come from the factory with 3 carbs :eek: Things change and not always for the good. I notice at the local cruise ins and shows, that I only see people my age or older. Only a couple of teenagers at most. But, then again, not many adults either. I think there has always been only a small number of us who actually go out and buy an old car. Lots of people fantasize for a few minutes of what it would be like to drive or own such a car. But, then they move on to whatever draws their attention next and don't pursue actually owning one.

 

Let's discuss this classic concept. Think back to the mid-60 to 1970 model Corvettes - probably the high-water mark of the muscle car era for Corvette - and compare those cars to, say, a 1992-96 LT1 car, and plus-10 years to a 2002 Z06.

So, let's say you're the proud new owner of a 1970 LT1 car. No A/C, skinny tires that you have to change out every 10k miles, noxious fumes from the dual exhaust, but ground-pounding performance, and nothing can touch you off the factory floor.

Now jump in my wife's 1994 LT1 car. Big wide low-profile tires. Anti-lock brakes. Air bags - driver and passenger. 300 horsepower - probably all the same net-net to the 1970 LT1. Cruise control, AC, CD player, and 17 city 25 highway mileage with a 6-speed transmission.

And the exhaust fumes are almost clean enough to heat your house. Ever notice how no one commits suicide these days by running the car in the garage? Not our 1970 LT1 - we're dead in minutes.

And the 2002 Z06. Wow! More of the same. Bigger wider tires - which, by the way, are good for about 4 times what you got in 1970. Second-generation active handling suspension, and that great 50-50 design with the transaxle - close to what Zora originally wanted (but a good argument nonetheless).

The problem is this: Every 1992-1996 Corvette looks like several other cars on the road today - at least from a distance in bad light - and there's no shortage of them. More of the same for the 2002. The 1970 Corvette, however, will never be repeated. Yeah, there's a zillion shark-body Vettes out there, but GM will NEVER make a car with such bold styling ever again, nor will any other manufacturer.

So, from a price/performance standpoint, I would argue that we're in a new golden age of performance. And there's no end in sight - unlike what brought things to a virtual halt in 1971. The mid-year and bumper sharks look so good because of the non-performance that followed. The current Corvette is obsoleting itself with each significant innovation.

I doubt that there will be those that long for the 84 Corvette that they drove in high school.

I suppose that it boils down to how the current crop of Vettes will fare in the secondary market. In my opinion, the 92-96 LT1 cars are a great buy right now in the 14-20k neighborhood. These things will go to 150, last for 150k, and provide all the creature comforts with a bit of style. I don't expect the 84-90 cars to rebound, but rather to continue the depreciation and reach a holding point - with some possible increases related solely to inflation. And the C5s have nowhere to go but down as the C6 peeks out in a few years. And none of this is making the shark-body cars look any better by comparison - that pesky price/performance measure.

No flames please. I'm 36, I own the shark shown below, and am responsible for the purchase of my wife's 94 LT1 - you may know him as Mr. Grinch. No C5s in my future, and no C6s for that matter. I'm doing good enough to keep these two running. Neither of these are what I would consider "growing up" with, I just love the shark-body vettes.

SBR - I also hope you're mistaken. But I'll hold on to Miranda forever.

 

This thread is getting more and more interesting. :cheers:

The whole concept of "a classic car" defies definition, in a way. Some cars are classic because of their technical innovations, some because they are rare (or becoming rare), some because of their quality and exclusiveness, some because of Hollywood movies. Classic cars come in all shapes and sizes and certainly in all colours. What is it that makes a car a classic?

You can't compare a Stutz Bearcat to a 67 Corvette roadster to a Aston-Martin DB5 to a Duesenberg to a Cord to a Porsche 933 to a Countach to a Mercedes 300SEL to a .... well, you get the concept. Each car has something which makes it stand out from the crowd. It's not like there weren't other cars produced in the same era as each of these classics, but those cars lacked something.

Chuck S. started a thread talking about Ramblers a while back and we all more or less agreed a perfect example of a Rambler wouldn't be much of a gift and certainly wouldn't be worth buying, yet many of them sold during their time.

Someone remarked earlier that the 'classics' for this generation aren't the same as the 'classics' for the last generation and may not be the same for the next generation. While there is some truth in this, I can't agree completely. At age 39, my childhood, particularly when I discovered cars, was in the 70s. I've had a fascination for Corvettes ever since my favorite uncle came to visit driving an Ontario Orange coupe with sidepipes. He only kept the car for a year but he certainly made an impression on this impressionable youth!

So if there was an ultimate Vette to find in my garage, what era would it be? A midyear, followed closely by a straight axle. Why not the coke-bottle curves (like I own)? The midyears represent a huge technical innovation over the straight axles, but if it was strictly technical, I'd be looking for a C5. Is it the power of the big blocks of the era? Well, I don't speed (much :rolleyes: ) and I don't roadrace (anymore :rolleyes: ) so it's not that. What could it be?

Simply put, the midyears have such beautiful lines. They look good from every angle. I actually prefer the coupes because of their elegant fastbacks although I certainly wouldn't toss away a vert. The straight axles come a close second. I love the coves; I always have. The C3s started off with the same kind of beauty but lost the vision after a decade or so.

I know there are many who, like me, enjoy Vettes of eras other than their childhood. All I have to do is go for a drive and watch the stares as my 73 rumbles by. A while back, I dropped a friend off at the local high school and I was surrounded by drooling kids who had many questions to ask. I have no doubt the seed dropped on some fertile soil and some of the kids now want Vettes.

The thing is if we didn't drive these cars, the kids would never see them outside of shows, mags and museums. Nothing inspires more than the sound of sidepipes but there's enough guys out there who drive their classics that there will always be a market of potential buyers.

What I worry about is the investors and collectors who buy their Vettes strictly as an investment. They're the ones who force the prices sky-high and then don't drive their cars for fear they'll depreciate the value by adding miles. Meanwhile, every other midyear owner figures his (or her) car is worth megabucks because one sold on e-Bay or at Barrett-Jackson auctions for megadollars. If that pattern continues, parts will always be hugely expensive and cars unattainable.

Someone else made the point about kids now-a-days having more cash than previous generations. I agree 100%. Whether this will support the inflated prices of Vettes remains to be seen but I don't ever see the market for Vettes going away. I just wished it would cool down so I could afford to indulge my fantasies!! :lol:

 

Just an additional thought. To me what make a Corvette a "Classic" is the optional engines. Sure the base engined '67 is a nice car but when you hear people talking about classic 67s they are talking the 427 :) Just look at the values, a big block Vette brings fro $5K and up extra just for the engine. The LT1 of 70-72 gets a good premium. Even the L82 of 73-80. But look at Vettes after 80. No optional engines. 81 only had the L81, 82 and 84 had only the CrossFire. 85 - 91 had the L98, 92 - 96 had the new LT1 with 96 also getting an LT4 which could be a classic. (There was also the ZR1 from 90-95 and those will be a classic). Then comes the C5 with only the LS1 until the LS6 came out.

My basic point is that since '74 your engine options have beeen very limited or nonexistent. For most C4 the only thing different between them is if they are auto or manual trans and the color. They are all the same. Same for the C5. (Again exceptions for the ZR1, LT4, and Z06).

Would not it be sharp if the C6 came out with 4 or 5 engine options? :D

tom...

 

I'm not worried in slightest about this.
The performance cars built from the mid fifties to the mid seventies will always be in demand. They can't be manufactured again as they do not meet practically any of the government mandates. They can't even build anything like them because of this. Look at the new T-bird. Ya, it's alright but it's nothing compared to the original (Dad owns a 55 and a 57). I'm sure it was a valiant attempt but it's just not possible to repeat.

Performance cars from the era are just plain old different than the rest. Many kids growing up in the sixties wanted a Vette, GTO, or whatever even though they were new or near new. They did not want a 30-40 year old car unless it was modified. Kids growing up in the eighties wanted those same cars even though they were old. The same is true today and I doubt it will ever change. The era just has a mystic that can't be reproduced. Sure there will be new cars that are desired like the Vette, GN, GTO?? but that does not detract from the appeal of the older performance models.

The comparison with ModelT's and the like is not valid. You can't drive them on todays roads. You couldn't drive them well on 1950's roads! If you buy one, you can't use it!! The prices of restored Model T's and the like has dropped due to attrition but the prices of modifieds has certainly not! It's just not a fair comparison with early Vettes or musclecars. Until buyers are unable to use the vehicles on the everyday road, they will be in demand. Hell, todays roads are the same roads they had in the fifties but with wider lanes, less curves, safer shoulders, and more patches!

 

I'm sorry to say that I have nothing interesting to add to this thread...

 

Remember what the reaction was like when the General introduced the ZR1? Although the regular C4 was a pretty decent package, the ZR1, with it's subtle styling cues and excellent engine, reignited interest in Vettes for the first time in years, so much so that the following years saw the regular Vettes stealing the styling cues to cash in.

Valid point but I'm not sure I completely agree. There are too many exceptions. For example, the SWC had a range of engines available but no-one cares; they're SWCs!

 

But this is some intresting reading.... :cheers:


[Modified by Desertdawg, 1:29 AM 8/13/2002]

 

I agree, but you must remember that the SWC was different from all the coupes that followed. The C4's are all alike, some for the C5. You see a SWC you know that it is a '63. You see a C5 and, unless you are an expert on wheels and if the wheels have not been changed, you do not know if it is a '97 or a '02. There is nothing to differentiate one C4 from another C4 and nothing to differentiate one C5 from another C5. That is why most of them will never be classics.

tom...

 

Like was earlier mentioned in the thread, I am one of the younger members of my local car clubs, as aI am still on the good side of thirty :D

When I go to cruise in's and shows the only other people my age are driving cars that you could buy in the classifieds of any paper, or off a used car lot, sure most of them have been modified, but there just isn't the interest in cars anymore were I live. All my friends whoose cars I work on/help me are all in there 40's or 50's.

I really don't know what will happen, I guesss It is a game of wait and see, what happens to guys like my father who own midyears where that car goes when they can no longer enjoy it.......like another for me :D

Tom

 

I think that was my point- the SWC had something unique about it; motor selection wasn't an issue. Each classic, especially in a vehicle series like the Corvette where there is a long standing tradition, must have something unique about it. For the SWC, it was Bill Mitchell's one year gift. For the ZR1, the brake light treatment was a symbol of the performance package; something unique. Something that reaches more than the enthusiast, something which clearly identifies the vehicle.

Someone spoke in another thread (about stupidest questions ever asked about your Vette) of having someone ask if his midyear roadster was a split window. Why would someone ask such a question unless that unique feature of 1963 came to represent all midyears, at least to the person asking that question.

For the first few years of C3 production, it seemed that each year, Zora-Duntov was determined to outdo the previous year. Unfortunately, as we all know, the 1970s ganged up on GM and the spirit to excell fell along with the horsepower numbers so by the 80s, the Vette was a pale shadow of it's former glory. I thought when they produced the C4 that things were going to improve but.....

I agree wholeheartedly and isn't it a shame that the General has so completely run out of fresh blood and ideas?

 

From what I see here in CA, many younger people are getting back into the 50's and 60's styling.. Some even dress the part.

I hear them playing the old 50's and 60's tunes all the time.

They ask more questions about my car than most..
I guess they aren't afraid to admit they don't know all about them.

The main problem is, at least for most of them, these cars are just out of their reach money wise..

They drive some of the same stuff we did when we were their age..
Trust me, I would have loved to drive a Vette way back when, it was just out of the question.

These cars are for the most part not daily drivers.
How many young people do you know that can afford to have a 30K car for the weekend?

Do you truly see the day that you will no longer see the 32 and 34 Fords, the tripple 5's sitting side by side with the mid year's in a Fudd's parking lot on Sat night???

I think not...

Of course,
I'm not ready to sell mine, regardless of the price.. :D

For what it's worth..
That's just my ½¢

Tony

 

I belive that the earley corvette's are car's that are timeless.People will always want one regaurdless of age.the model a's and t's are a bad example because they are not a pleasure to drive.The vettes are,look at the 1955/1957 chevy's these cars still bring high dollars today.Look at the t buckets/street rods.High dollar stuff still.

 

Out of sight, out of mind. There's nothing like seeing classic cars in person to get someone excited about the hobby. Coincidentally, today I saw a 1969 Mercury Cougar Eliminator, and that was enough to get my heart racing. I've seen them in pictures before, but I don't remember ever seeing one in person before today--and that used to be my dream car!