RichieRichZ06

You are going to have your hands full on the shorter Auto-X courses, that's for sure.

My car is a b!tch and I am a little less TQ then yours.

tjZ06

Yeah, it's certainly not an AutoX specific build... hopefully I can make the UFO event @ Marina this weekend to see just how crazy it's going to be!

-TJ

C54CSTER

I would have thought there would have been at least an additional 30 rwhp with E85 on that build. Big cam, 102/102 setup, etc. I wonder what my little 586/532 H/C 427 would do on E85? I don't even have the 102/102 combo on there yet...

Christian

Nick@Newtech

Would you like to get an apples to apples comparison? I doubt your car makes 586 on my dyno. If you can break 576 hp I would be willing to dyno the car on the house. Let me know.

tjZ06

Christian, did you read the whole thread? This is with a 85mm MAF and a bone stock C5Z Ti cat-back. I think we did gain ~30rwhp but we won't know 'til we do the 91 tune.

Awesome offer Nick! I'd really love to see what Christian's car does on your dyno for as a reference point for my car.

Do it Christian!

-TJ

C54CSTER

You can set your dyno up any way you want to make sure you win that bet though.

In all seriousness, I don't need a free dyno, but thanks for the offer. I was merely stating that I would have thought an E85 tuned 427 would have made a lot more than 600 rwhp. Jim Hall was running a Katech-massaged LS7 on E85 a few months ago and was around 625 or something, if i recall correctly, on a fairly small cam.

I don't care about dyno numbers...it's what happens on both the track and street that count for me. The fact that the E85 runs cool would be nice on a road course though.

tjZ06

Nick has a Dynojet, there is nothing he can "setup" to adjust the results. If you want we can put my car on just before yours, you can see that my car makes the #s posted here, then you can watch Nick and make sure he doesn't do some voodoo magic (again, on a Dynojet there is nothing to "change" or "setup" to adjust the #s) and we can put yours on.

Who wouldn't want a free dyno just to double check their tune and the health of their car?



And again, have you even read the thread or the car's setup? It is pushing through the stock exhaust. It's also on a stock LS6 (85mm) MAF.

-TJ

C54CSTER

TJ, I did read the whole thread while I was sitting in the office today. I agree with you on the 85mm MAF is small, but I also agree with Rich that the Ti catback is a very nice-flowing unit.

I'm NOT knocking you car man. I was just surprised that it made the 600rwhp on the E85. I would have guessed more like 615 to 625 rwhp, with maybe another 10 or so rwhp in there with a nice big MAF like a Halltech, LPE or Callaway unit.

Congrats on getting your car done man!!! Maybe I'll see you on one of the cruises once this dang rain stops!!

Christian

tjZ06

Thanks for the props, I'm really happy with the build. I'm certainly not knocking your car either. For the sake of science it'd just be interesting to see what yours would do on Nick's dyno. You're right, at the end of the day dyno #s are just fun for bench racing but its ETs and lap times that matter (or maybe a little freeway pull... on a private closed road of course).

FWIW on big cube motors ppl have seen a proven 15-20rwhp loss w/ the Ti http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1572879640-post25.html

That's not to say the Ti is "bad" at all. The fact that an exhaust with 2" pipe (as per Tony Mamo who I tend to believe http://www.z06vette.com/forums/1071621-post7.html) that was engineered to support a 405 crank HP motor can support 600 rear wheel HP is actually pretty amazing. That doesn't mean there is no room for improvement. At 600 RWHP a 2% gain would be 12 RWHP, so even if a true 3" system only gave 2% I'd be right where you expected. 5% would be 630 etc. etc. etc. Of course, that's all speculation until we try it with a different exhaust.

-TJ

Nick@Newtech

I really cant fudge numbers, it is what it is. I am merely trying to show you my dyno is conservative compared to anything around and TJ car is missing a few things. WCCH heads and decent sized cams are mid 500s on my dyno.

EVILNESS

Just for the record my car did 483on nicks dyno and it did 510 the next day at ricks last show... My red car did 448rwhp on Nicks dyno and 474 on Ricks... There is no question without rotating mass to account for the Dynapack does read higher... But since all that matters is what happens in the real world... ask TJ what happend when my 448rwhp(nicks) Raced paynes 490rwhp(Ricks) on the freeway i have the video if anyone wants to see... Not sayin any dyno is better for tuning just stating my experiences...

R.

tjZ06

Yeah... that's why I think it'd be so cool to see Christian's car on Nick's dyno: just to get a reference point. Dyno #s are just dyno #s like you said, but if we're going to compare them it's best to compare on the same dyno. Nick put up a generous offer to cover the dyno if the car comes within 10hp of its previous #, that's pretty freakin' cool! It's a Dynojet, so he can't fudge the #s, and I even offered my car as a "control" to dyno just prior.

And yeah, your 448 rwhp (@Nick's) vs. Payne's 489 (@Rick's) certainly didn't play-out like a > 40 rwhp disadvantage for you. IIRC the deciding factor was which car my fat *** was in.

-TJ

C54CSTER

That's cool man. Maybe your dyno is way more stingy than other places. C6Z06s all over the country will dyno high 500s at the wheels with heads and decently aggressive cams though. My car at 586 is well within the norm for a package like mine.

I guess the one thing I'm not clear on is whether you're saying that West Coast Cylinder Heads suck or that your dyno is just hard to make bigger numbers on??

Christian

C54CSTER

TJ,

To get a reference point for what?

Christian

tjZ06

How my numbers compare to a more typical setup (WCCH heads and a "decent" sized cam). Just an interesting data-point. I might try to get my car onto another dyno soon for yet another data-point.

-TJ

C54CSTER

Your motor has much more $$$ in the heads than mine, your cam is way bigger than mine (no double entendre intended ), you have a 102/102 combo and you're tuned with E85!!! There should be zero comparison, really. You have a nice package put together. I'm always up for getting out and taking a little cruise though...

tjZ06

Cruise it is!

I guess maybe you're missing my point. The idea of getting us both on the same dyno, or the same "cruise" is to understand how our two very different combos stack up. Yes, I probably have more $ in my motor, but I could argue back that you paid 2-3 times what I did for your car. It's all just silly until we "cruise" and/or get 'em on the same dyno the same day.

Do you have any interest in going AutoXin' on Sunday, we could "cruise" down to Marina together.

-TJ

Shark Racer

Some people measure things in centimeters just so they can see a bigger number.

C54CSTER

The only point I can see in putting my car on Nick's dyno is to try to say something about one tuner v. another. I'm not in business for either shop. I am way too busy to mess with that kind of nonsense. Seriously, why in the world would anyone waste time on something like that?

Like I posted above, my car, with my setup, would make about the same HP/TQ (586/532) at any dyno in the country, save for Nick's dyno (evidently). I don't know of any heads and cam C6Z06s that are in the mid 550rwhp range. They all make in the 575rwhp to 600rwhp range, across the country, on all types of dynos. Maybe Nick's is the only dyno in the country that is setup to make 2% or 3% less power than all the others. That's great.

That being said, this post was about your car, not mine. Your tuner, not mine. I don't have anything to prove and/or justify. It wasn't my post.

I would love to get out for a while and let the cars stretch their legs though. I will see what's going on Sunday...where is the autocross?

Christian

tjZ06

It's not about tuner vs. tuner, it's about dyno vs. dyno. Just to explore the differences between the dynos themselves. Aaaaaaaaaaaanyway like you said let's drop that topic.

The AutoX is in Marina. It's a bit of a drive from Alamo, but it's a good time. If you haven't AutoXed before I highly recommend it.

-TJ