02' vette

And in the recent videos, it runs low 11's at 127 or so in the 1/4.

So how is it possible that a car that weighs 1,000lbs more can possibly be running 11.40's @ 128? Does physics not apply anymore? Or is Dodge lying about the new Hellcat motor making only 57 more hp and the same torque as the Z? Is it really making 750+ to be able to runs 1/4 mile times like that? I have always gone under the assumption that all other things being equal, every additional 100lbs in a car will cost you about 1 tenth and 1mph in the 1/4 mile.

Zentraedi

The Hellcat numbers are verified also, you can find the dynos online. If my memory serves me right, it is making more than 707hp at the crank. It comes down to a combination of better gearing and being automatic, less downforce etc for the Hellcat against the ZO6 with bad gearing and more downforce which sucks for a roll race.

I also feel the small supercharger in the ZO6 is just not working well for the highway/drag races etc, yes it is putting down the numbers and the power band is pretty flat but my gut tells me it is one of the main problems that can't be explained that is being over sighted.

WhiteDiamond

In before the free move to _________(fill in the section of choice)

NineBall

The independent HelloKitty dynos are showing 650-660 rwhp. That is about 100 rwhp more than a C7 Z06, at normal operating temperature. It seems Dodge under-stated the 707 number, for whatever reason. More like 757, but they might not have used that since it reminds people of an overweight airplane full of people.... which might be more accurate?

URBAN LEGEND

Things are different than it was back in the 90s.

Power and weight in today's world does not give you the wide screen picture. Tires, weight distribution, gearing, launch control factory parameters, e diff parameters, slip angles settings, traction control settings, suspension, transmission shifting logic, are a few that come to mind as I type. All of these talking to each other at all times in order to be as effective/fast as possible.

This is the prime reason you have some cars with horsepower in the 4XX range putting out 0-60 in the flat 3.0 zone.

Also the magazine articles are from different tracks, temperatures, drivers, etc. So those comparisons are general and not the truth. The truth is when the same driver, on the same track, same day.

02' vette

Okay thanks Nineball, if it is indeed making those kinds of rwhp #'s then that would make a lot more sense.

Snorman

Easy answer here...automatic and the cars appear to be stronger than their rating suggests from a number of dynos I have seen for the Challenger (I would expect the Charger to be no different).
I'll be honest, the straightline performance of the Charger just seems hilarious. As in, almost too much fun to not buy one. I had no interest in the Challenger because it's just a heavier, more powerful version of a car I already have ('13 GT500), but the Charger is a 4-door "family car".
My wife is going to be looking at me sideways for a few days after I buy one.
S.

Crabbers

NineBall is correct about 707 being a conservative number.

Urban Legend is correct about it being about more than just weight and horsepower (and that different days and different tracks can't really be compared any more than to get an idea of what they do.)

Isn't it great that we live in a world where we have so many awesome cars to choose from?!

TLS_Addict

The supercharger on the Z06 can make a ton of HP. Issues with that vs the 2300 is that it spins faster which does create more heat.

Guys make an easy 700 rwhp with the CTS-V and ZL1 that both utilize a 1900 instead of the ZR-1's 2300.

The Z06 runs fine, my bet is a simple tune the car will get better performance numbers, run cleaner and more efficient.

The Z06 with light mods will be a beast. So its not as fast to 150 as a ZR-1 or as fast top end. Who cares? To me its not a ZR-1 replacement.

For those thinking its a ZR-1 replacement, you may be disappointed. For those who see it as a new model in itself, though it says Z06, you will probably love it.

therealviper

Look the new CTSV with the Z06 engine with 10 less HP, will supposedly do 3.6 to 60 and have a top speed of 202.... and likely weighs inline more with the Hellcat per GM.

Given the ZO7 track times and the smile on the drivers faces.... I would not say the gearing is bad, nor the down force .. for a track car, which is what it was designed to be... along with a car that can be a daily driver.... carry golf clubs and good for a weekend getaway, or trip across the country. Look at all the driving modes, that actually do affect the drive of the car very noticeably and the loudness of the exhaust....Heads up display, configurable instrument displays....

Oh and did I mention, is also Targa Topped(clear, colored, carbon fiber), powered convertible, manual, Z7,Zo6, 3 trim levels, PDR, 3 aero packages, manual or automatic, 5 interior colors, 2 seat choices, 4 different wheels, micro suede and different dash material options, and of course its little sister the Stingray which will be 80% of sales...

And if its track use only, well you are going to buy a bare one and strip it, throw in real race seats..... modify it greatly , run with slicks.. its a starting place...

Does anyone else offer that many options, that will meet so many different users needs, thus insuring higher sales volumes, which means the car will be around, which may not be the case for the Viper....a great but much more single directed car... Large volume means buying one used also/great selection, that then becomes an affordable track only car if you so chose.

And higher volume means more after market parts at lower prices.... That kind of volume also allows you ultimately to pull into any Chevy dealer and get servicing on the car, even in the sticks.. try that with the exotics...

This is a complete sports car platform.... unlike anyone any one has ever seen before! You will not be successful in this lower price range, addressing just a small market segment such as just the 5%-10% that will be tracked.


This focus on roll speeds or drag times as if they are the end all, is some what like tunnel vision. I can understand why, if your the competition, it appears that's all you have got!

The market for the Hellcat will be like the ZR1 Camaro or Z28, except likely even smaller.


And it would appear that at 700Hp RWD, we start reaching the practical limits of HP to the rear wheels only... and only can get that much higher with the significant down force and the highest Gs in a turn for any stock car.

Regards,

Viper



Regards,

Viper

hognutz

I for the life of me can't understand this infatuation with hellcat vs corvette.

the hellcats's are proabably the craziest muclecars built yet. big old heavy cars with massive power. 707 is under rated by any dyno number I have seen yet.

I felt the 13/14 GT500's were that way a bit too. when people started putting down 600whp since the TR-6060 is in a ton of cars it not like it has less loss than a vette/camaro/viper. it has that odd 7000rpm feature for 8 secdons though so i don't know when they rated that motor how they delt with that.

all that being said the handling of the two cars is so far apart it is commical.

I agree with snorman thought hellcat charger as a daily seems like a very interesting item. I don't need 1.2g handling in my daily. if I did not have such a long commute Iw ould proabably buy one of those. that 4door grocery getter is going to hurt some feelings messing around from a roll ha ha.


I do think the factory tune or something on the Z06 is holding it back though the torque numbers in theory should do better up at speed. I dealt with this a little on my Zl1 though. the facotry tune and redline left me wanting at times. So I upped the boost, rasied the limiter proablem solved. I feel like once temperatures get up people get more seat time the problem will sort itself out. maybe the tune or airbox needs to be swapped out.

I have "0" stock cars though so I kind of look at the package as a whole. how hard is it to fix what ever flaw there is from the factory as most cars have one or two.

TLS_Addict

I blame tune and tq mgmt.

My little Z28 years ago gained .2 in the 1/4 just by deleting the tq mgmt.

NineBall

Why did you quote me, and then talk about Vipers? Original post was just asking why the Hellcat seems to run so strong, compared with the Z06. Nobody is talking about Vipers.

For what it is worth, I actually enjoy the fact that some cars are more unique or rarely seen. Even my CTS-V was a relative stand-out in the busy commuting highways of Houston. I rarely even see a V6 CTS out there, much less a CTS-V.

I'm not interested in a Hellcat Challenger, but the 4-door Charger is interesting indeed. 128 mph taxi cab? Nuts.

ticat928

Instead the 707 stands for the plane that changed the world, it was also the last airliner that did barrel rolls since it's demonstration flight of 1955.

Mopar Jimmy

Also, Ma Mopar has always been very aggressive with the way they play with gearing. With the very low aggressive gearing in first gear coming out of the hole, the Hellcat A8 (auto tranny) hits like it has a 4.88 gear, which also supports the reason why the Hellcat (A8) with sticky drag race tires, is going to dominate at the drag strip and why it will be putting down some fantastic ets., (mid 10s all day long with drag radials and slicks and good track conditions).

dmaxx3500

but can these high HP cars hook-up on the street?,

Hemi Dave

No.....but they can roll race...