OT:991 GT3 Crash
03-22-2016, 03:36 PM
#3
The Consigliere
Member Since: May 2006
Location: 2023 Z06 & 2010 ZR1
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Damn. That sucks.
Stout roof on that Porsche. Hope the chap is ok.
Stout roof on that Porsche. Hope the chap is ok.
03-22-2016, 03:42 PM
#4
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Oct 1999
Location: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
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Actually, it looks like the rear end hit first which means he had some over steer not under steer. He probably chickened out and took his foot off the throttle at the wrong time and the back end of the car stepped out in an area where there wasn't any room for a spin.
You can do the same thing in a high torque Corvette. Think you are going too fast for a corner, lift at the wrong time (initial turn in or just after), the back end gets light while the front gets heavier with associated loss of rear traction and gain of front traction the front turns in sharper and the back end says "Oh ****" and around you go. Some times they really weren't going too fast but didn't know it and had the wrong reaction. That is why you go to driving schools so you can learn how to drive properly.
Bill
You can do the same thing in a high torque Corvette. Think you are going too fast for a corner, lift at the wrong time (initial turn in or just after), the back end gets light while the front gets heavier with associated loss of rear traction and gain of front traction the front turns in sharper and the back end says "Oh ****" and around you go. Some times they really weren't going too fast but didn't know it and had the wrong reaction. That is why you go to driving schools so you can learn how to drive properly.
Bill
03-22-2016, 04:04 PM
#5
Pro
Goes to show you; no matter how much electronic wizardry Porsche puts into its rear-engined 911 chassis, it is still an accident waiting to happen. Ever wondered why no other car manufacturer make a rear-engined car?
03-22-2016, 04:22 PM
#8
Drove a GT3 three weeks ago on a test drive. It was sweet. Great steering feel and handling.
03-22-2016, 04:53 PM
#9
Pro
It is debatable whether Porsche even makes a rear-engined car anymore. They have moved the motor forward vs the rear axle. It isn't quite mid-engine, but it isn't as extreme as it used to be. Not sure what the driver did, but he was heading into that corner too fast for sure.
Drove a GT3 three weeks ago on a test drive. It was sweet. Great steering feel and handling.
Drove a GT3 three weeks ago on a test drive. It was sweet. Great steering feel and handling.
Rear engined cars, including the 911 series, had obtained a very deserved bad reputation to the point that pretty much all others abandoned that configuration. As a matter of fact, Bob Akin, ex-pro Porsche racing driver once famously described the 911;
"You can not make a race horse out of a pig but, you can make an awful fast pig."
I had fast front engined cars, mid-engined exotics and tried the rear engined 930 Turbo once; I almost paid with my life for that. For track driving I will take a mid engined race car, for winding canyon performance driving I will always select a front engined car.
The 911 series cars have been developed for about 60 years where they do feel and handle fine for normal and even spirited driving but, if you really challenge them near their limits, they can and will bite you the big way.
03-22-2016, 07:48 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
The 991 gen 911 is much better with the rear end. You can actually trail brake but a little too much trail brake or turn in too fast not smooth it still steps out. The rear steering made it much easier to deal with compared to 997 or earlier but the corvette is still a little more forgiving.
I have not driven C7 on track, but GT3RS compared to my ZR1 is night and day. I will take GT3RS everyday on track. Its not near as powerful and lap times might be a little lower, but the precision and feedback is amazing.
I have not driven C7 on track, but GT3RS compared to my ZR1 is night and day. I will take GT3RS everyday on track. Its not near as powerful and lap times might be a little lower, but the precision and feedback is amazing.
03-22-2016, 08:50 PM
#11
03-23-2016, 04:30 PM
#13
Race Director
Muslims see the will of god - and because everything is seen in this light, there is little value placed on saving a life. You will note that the video guy's automatic response is "allahu akbar" - which would be like you and me watching some dude get run over by a bus and exclaiming "praise the Lord!". This is because the video guy has just seen the will of god being manifested, and to him it is a miracle. If the guys burns to death in the car... that is a bonus, because the observers will have all witnessed the making of a martyr - again, to them a revelation and a miracle.
Muslims react exactly the same way when they witness a jihadi blowing himself up at an airport and taking 100 souls with him. They see a great act of god. This is not extremism - it is taught by the Koran and hard-wired into every single muslim.
Until westerners fully understand this mindset, they do not understand islam and the grave danger it poses to civilized society...
Last edited by TTRotary; 03-23-2016 at 04:33 PM.
03-23-2016, 06:08 PM
#14
Melting Slicks
The 991 gen 911 is much better with the rear end. You can actually trail brake but a little too much trail brake or turn in too fast not smooth it still steps out. The rear steering made it much easier to deal with compared to 997 or earlier but the corvette is still a little more forgiving.
I have not driven C7 on track, but GT3RS compared to my ZR1 is night and day. I will take GT3RS everyday on track. Its not near as powerful and lap times might be a little lower, but the precision and feedback is amazing.
I have not driven C7 on track, but GT3RS compared to my ZR1 is night and day. I will take GT3RS everyday on track. Its not near as powerful and lap times might be a little lower, but the precision and feedback is amazing.
ZR1 is,by far, the easiest car to spin with crazy sensitive lift throttle oversteer....rear wheel steering and moving the engine forward makes the 991 GT3 a dream!
Last edited by 05dsom; 03-23-2016 at 06:09 PM.
03-23-2016, 06:12 PM
#15
Le Mans Master
Last edited by sam90lx; 03-23-2016 at 06:12 PM.
03-23-2016, 11:03 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
The ferrari 458 is just as easy as the GT3 to get get near the limits for me but lap times are better.
to your new ride.
Last edited by Joezone914; 03-23-2016 at 11:04 PM.
03-25-2016, 06:23 PM
#18
Melting Slicks
Beautiful Ferrari. The 991GT3 for some reason is less tail happy compared to the GT3RS in my hands. I have driven both on track and am not sure why that is since the RS has bigger tires. The precision on both is amazing though. As for the ZR1, mine (a 2009) seems to be really good at trail braking / throttle lift with minimal oversteer with my setup. What I don't like is the suspension feel is sloppy with all the cross talk and it feels heavy. I'm thinking a good set of coilovers and sway bars might help, but I'm not ready to leave the F55 shocks yet. Are 2010's and any better I wonder?
The ferrari 458 is just as easy as the GT3 to get get near the limits for me but lap times are better.
to your new ride.
The ferrari 458 is just as easy as the GT3 to get get near the limits for me but lap times are better.
to your new ride. thanks for the comment, and I have read in a few magazine and online articles that the RS is more difficult to drive quickly around a track than the GT3 (less forgiving?), but some on RL think this is due to an alignment issue???? I think MT (Randy) even spun the purple car 3 times in the camparo against the ACR and Z07.
03-25-2016, 07:38 PM
#19
Pro
Beautiful Ferrari. The 991GT3 for some reason is less tail happy compared to the GT3RS in my hands. I have driven both on track and am not sure why that is since the RS has bigger tires. The precision on both is amazing though. As for the ZR1, mine (a 2009) seems to be really good at trail braking / throttle lift with minimal oversteer with my setup. What I don't like is the suspension feel is sloppy with all the cross talk and it feels heavy. I'm thinking a good set of coilovers and sway bars might help, but I'm not ready to leave the F55 shocks yet. Are 2010's and any better I wonder?
The ferrari 458 is just as easy as the GT3 to get get near the limits for me but lap times are better.
to your new ride.
The ferrari 458 is just as easy as the GT3 to get get near the limits for me but lap times are better.
to your new ride.During the late 70' and early 80' when there was not a single decent performance car available due to the horrific smog equipment of the times, I owned two Euro spec Lamborghinis. 1n 1983 the first, promising performance car hit the showroom, the Mustang GT with a lofty 160 Hp. I purchased one immediately, took it home and in a couple of hours the car was half taken apart in my garage. My wife literally screamed when she opened the garage door and saw the brand new Stang in million pieces all over the floor.
A year later when I called the changes good enough, the Stang absolutely demolished both my V12 and V8 mid engined Lamborghinis in handling and in brute power. The handling could be described as "razor sharp" despite the many nay-sayers who told me that a front heavy car, like the Stang, could not be made to handle. I had so much fun on the road and winning on the track with that car that I got bored with and sold both Lambos.
10 years later the 3rd gen, twin turbo RX-7 came out. I bought one immediately and went to work on it. When I got done, it simply ate the Stang alive in both handling and power. Nothing could touch it on the road or the tacks.
I no longer race, nor look for the ultimate suspension setup in my first ever 2015 Stingray. But, while praised by so many pro testers, I found the handling sloppy, lacking precision. A few changes later the previously missing precision is now evident and the car is a pleasure to toss around corners.
The main reason I tended to favor some domestic performance cars, such as the Stang or Vette, precisely because so much could be done to them for generally reasonable investments. Huge after market selections. On the other hand, I have now owned 5 Jaguars in a row, (two presently) and there is basically nothing that I can improve on simply because no after market choices. My 5.0 XKR is gorgeous, quite fast with the factory supercharger but, could not even hope to keep up with my NA Stingray over any kind of winding roads or tracks.
I am most at home when I can modify things and nothing offers me better and more cost effective platforms than these domestics. What is more fun than going to a Ferrari or Porsche track event in a Mustang and set the fast time of the day...
Last edited by axr6; 03-25-2016 at 09:50 PM.
03-25-2016, 08:30 PM
#20
Melting Slicks
IMO and experience, most cars that are, at least, decently designed and built can be made to handle as well as, or much better than just about ANY factory stock car.
During the late 70' and early 80' when there was not a single decent performance car available due to the horrific smog equipment of the times, I owned two Euro spec Lamborghinis. 1n 1983 the first, promising performance car hit the showroom, the Mustang GT with a lofty 160 Hp. I purchased one immediately, took it home and in a couple of hours the car was half taken apart in my garage. My wife literally screamed when she opened the garage door and saw the brand new Stang in million pieces all over the floor.
A year later when I called the changes good enough, the Stang absolutely demolished both my V12 and V8 mid engined Lamborghinis in handling and in brute power. The handling could be described as "razor sharp" despite the many nay-stayers who told me that a front heavy car, like the Stang, can not be made to handle. I had so much fun on the road and winning on the track with that car that I got bored with and sold both Lambos.
10 years later the 3rd gen, twin turbo RX-7 came out. I bought one immediately and went to work on it. When I got done, it simply ate the Stang alive in both handling and power. Nothing could touch it on the road or the tacks.
I no longer race, nor look for the ultimate suspension setup in my first ever 2015 Stingray. But, while praised by so many pro testers, I found the handling sloppy, lacking precision. A few changes later the previously missing precision is now evident and the car is a pleasure to toss around corners.
The main reason I tended to favor some domestic performance cars, such as the Stang or Vette, precisely because so much could be done to them for generally reasonable investments. Huge after market selections. On the other hand, I have now owned 5 Jaguars in a row, (two presently) and there is basically nothing that I can improve on simply because no after market choices. My 5.0 XKR is gorgeous, quite fast with the factory supercharger but, could not even hope to keep up with my NA Stingray over any kind of winding roads or tracks.
I am most at home when I can modify things and nothing offers me better and more cost effective platforms than these domestics. What is more fun than going to a Ferrari or Porsche track event in a Mustang and set the fast time of the day...
During the late 70' and early 80' when there was not a single decent performance car available due to the horrific smog equipment of the times, I owned two Euro spec Lamborghinis. 1n 1983 the first, promising performance car hit the showroom, the Mustang GT with a lofty 160 Hp. I purchased one immediately, took it home and in a couple of hours the car was half taken apart in my garage. My wife literally screamed when she opened the garage door and saw the brand new Stang in million pieces all over the floor.
A year later when I called the changes good enough, the Stang absolutely demolished both my V12 and V8 mid engined Lamborghinis in handling and in brute power. The handling could be described as "razor sharp" despite the many nay-stayers who told me that a front heavy car, like the Stang, can not be made to handle. I had so much fun on the road and winning on the track with that car that I got bored with and sold both Lambos.
10 years later the 3rd gen, twin turbo RX-7 came out. I bought one immediately and went to work on it. When I got done, it simply ate the Stang alive in both handling and power. Nothing could touch it on the road or the tacks.
I no longer race, nor look for the ultimate suspension setup in my first ever 2015 Stingray. But, while praised by so many pro testers, I found the handling sloppy, lacking precision. A few changes later the previously missing precision is now evident and the car is a pleasure to toss around corners.
The main reason I tended to favor some domestic performance cars, such as the Stang or Vette, precisely because so much could be done to them for generally reasonable investments. Huge after market selections. On the other hand, I have now owned 5 Jaguars in a row, (two presently) and there is basically nothing that I can improve on simply because no after market choices. My 5.0 XKR is gorgeous, quite fast with the factory supercharger but, could not even hope to keep up with my NA Stingray over any kind of winding roads or tracks.
I am most at home when I can modify things and nothing offers me better and more cost effective platforms than these domestics. What is more fun than going to a Ferrari or Porsche track event in a Mustang and set the fast time of the day...
that is why I will continue to use the ZR1 as my track day car--not only because the cost of consumables is considerably less than P or F, but it also tends to lap the others within my group (solo) and an ACR or even adding a wing, canards and 6 inch splitter on my car seems a bit overkill for 10 days a year