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GT3RS with only 520 hp and 346 torque beats ZR1 in Road Atlanta
Porsche breaks the road atlanta record, twice. This shows that power figures on paper and pure brute force arent all that relevant if the car isnt balanced.
I am much more impressed how a naturally aspirated 520 hp/346 torque GT3RS beats a ZR1 with more than twice the torque and over 50% horse power advantage.
ZR1 is great but it makes way too much torque down low which isnt all that great in practical sense. Car breaks loose on 4th gear. Sounds great to the ear but its not all that fun when you cant go WOT without worrying.
Porsche breaks the road atlanta record, twice. This shows that power figures on paper and pure brute force arent all that relevant if the car isnt balanced.
I am much more impressed how a naturally aspirated 520 hp/346 torque GT3RS beats a ZR1 with more than twice the torque and over 50% horse power advantage.
ZR1 is great but it makes way too much torque down low which isnt all that great in practical sense. Car breaks loose on 4th gear. Sounds great to the ear but its not all that fun when you cant go WOT without worrying.
Thanks for the post. I for one, am happy to own a car that is capable of times “in the company” of cars like the GT3 RS ... just coincidentally while getting my Cayenne’s annual service at North Scottsdale Porsche (Penske) on Tuesday, they had a recently sold GT3 RS and a GT2 RS in the showroom. Prices you ask? $350k for the GT3 RS and $450k for the 2... beautiful cars. The GT2 is one of 2 done in that special green color. $450k GT2 RS $350k GT3 RS
I care because I would like Corvette to produce a similar car one day that is lightweight, balanced, and is not all about massive engines with gobs of torque.
And I disagree about these being in different classes. Clearly chevy doesnt think ZR1 is in a different class (i.e hardcore track weapon) or they wouldnt have made a road atlanta track record video (along with other ones) or produce a car with a massive wing in the back and a splitter in front which are clearly for downforce. Those things among other clues (even Tadge going on record and saying every hp they added they did so with handling and cooling in mind) tell me they dont percieve ZR1 as a grand tourer class (i.e Ferrari 488, Porsche 911 Turbo S, etc) but a track capable sports car.
I have 1900 miles under my belt now with this car. I have never experienced 715 ft lbs torque that low in my life and having owned multiple M5s that were torque monsters I thought I would never say this but ZR1 makes too much torque. Its not the power, its the torque that is the issue. Even after driving the car for 40 minutes on highway and tire temperature reaches “NORMAL”, car breaks loose on 4th gear straight line acceleration and unless you let go off the throttle, you are going sideways. This at first sounds amazing, wow my car makes so much power, but in reality the way I drive my cars, I can never enjoy this car anywhere near the limit and neither can Randy and now I know why he made the comments he made when he drove the ZR1.
The engine in a zr1 is a very unique engine but I will sincerely disagree that it is a track car. The characteristics of this engine makes it a very unbalanced car at limit while taking turns, full stop. There is a reason why a car with literally less than half the torque and 50% less power outlaps this car (and this time it was in our backyard using our american drivers so the early arguments of nurburgring giving porsche unfair advantage no longer applies).
Corvette needs to come out with a true GT3/GT3RS competitor and that is not yet another torque monster mid engine V8 making 1000 hp and is AWD and weighs 3800 lbs.
Having spent now several hours under my car and around it while the body panels and fit and finish are ****, the engineering of the drive terrain, engine, transaxle, and the overall engineering design of this car is simply superb. Therefore I wholeheartedly believe that these engineers up in detroit are capable of producing a car that will compete with these GT cars. I strongly believe that competitor is not the new C8 corvette. Its going to be too heavy, torque monster, for a very different clientele.
Thanks for the post. I for one, am happy to own a car that is capable of times “in the company” of cars like the GT3 RS ... just coincidentally while getting my Cayenne’s annual service at North Scottsdale Porsche (Penske) on Tuesday, they had a recently sold GT3 RS and a GT2 RS in the showroom. Prices you ask? $350k for the GT3 RS and $450k for the 2... beautiful cars. The GT2 is one of 2 done in that special green color. $450k GT2 RS $350k GT3 RS
my local porsche dealer has a gt3rs with weissach pack that wont sell for 260 (and couldnt sell lower). Those astronomical prices have come down a lot as porsche built way too many of these cars. My dealership has 3xgt2rs parked next to each other along witg 2xgt3rs and 5+ gt3s. There are over 170 GT3s on sale in NA. GT3s are going 10-15k under MSRP now and Wait for 6 months and gt3rs will also start hitting low 200s.
Still very expensive yes but thats besides the point. What makes these cars so expensive isnt because they have some amazing technology that costs. What makes them expensive is because they are porsche! Every porsche is expensive so these are no different. Corvette could produce a NA, lighter corvette for 100k if they wanted. The fact that they arent making one isnt because its cost prohibitive, its because of their marketing strategy and how they are targeting this baby boomer generation who is into fast luxury cars that are easy to extract power.
point is, this formula (lighter, balanced, less torque) is something american cars are missing out on and I think they need to compete in this segment ALONG with others.
Last edited by UnhandledException; 03-28-2019 at 12:29 PM.
I think the problem with the vette's handling is the leaf spring suspension. One of Grassroots Motorsports' current project cars is a 2004 C5z. One of the things they complain about is the suspension - they feel that the leaf spring suspension makes it very difficult to drive the vette at the limit, and my personal experience is that I agree - it's very hard to drive the car at more than 95%. They feel that the problem is the stock rubber bushings and bump stops throw off the feel of the car. They replaced the stock springs with a set of coilovers and report that the car is much more predictable and has a better feel at the limit than with the leaf springs. My C6 makes plenty of power, I think a set of coilovers might be worth investigating.
So for another $100, 200k you can go 1.5sec faster around a track, sounds like a great deal....
honestly these split second comparisons are of limited value. Much better would be same day, same driver, comparable tires, 'head-to-head' as much as possible.
Not taking anything away from the P-cars, they are extremely well engineered.
Vette is crazy fast for a street car. P-cars have some race-car trickery such as all metal bushings links etc. I suspect a slight massage of the Vette suspension would swap the times again.
Thanks for the post. I for one, am happy to own a car that is capable of times “in the company” of cars like the GT3 RS ... just coincidentally while getting my Cayenne’s annual service at North Scottsdale Porsche (Penske) on Tuesday, they had a recently sold GT3 RS and a GT2 RS in the showroom. Prices you ask? $350k for the GT3 RS and $450k for the 2... beautiful cars. The GT2 is one of 2 done in that special green color. $450k GT2 RS $350k GT3 RS
my local porsche dealer has a gt3rs with weissach pack that wont sell for 260 (and couldnt sell lower). Those astronomical prices have come down a lot as porsche built way too many of these cars. My dealership has 3xgt2rs parked next to each other along witg 2xgt3rs and 5+ gt3s. There are over 170 GT3s on sale in NA. GT3s are going 10-15k under MSRP now and Wait for 6 months and gt3rs will also start hitting low 200s.
Still very expensive yes but thats besides the point. What makes these cars so expensive isnt because they have some amazing technology that costs. What makes them expensive is because they are porsche! Every porsche is expensive so these are no different. Corvette could produce a NA, lighter corvette for 100k if they wanted. The fact that they arent making one isnt because its cost prohibitive, its because of their marketing strategy and how they are targeting this baby boomer generation who is into fast luxury cars that are easy to extract power.
point is, this formula (lighter, balanced, less torque) is something american cars are missing out on and I think they need to compete in this segment ALONG with others.
You hate on Corvettes with everyone of your posts. Your ZR1 has to much torque for you? Too bad, sounds like you didn't know what you were buying. You certainly seem to find a way to start a Porsche fanboy extravaganza in just about every one of your posts which are always about how great a Porsche is and how terrible a Corvette is.
Why didn't you buy a 911 if they are that great and getting so cheap? Better yet, how about a Boxster or Cayman, shouldn't be a level of low end there to scare you.
You were all about selling your ZR1 which wasn't up to your standards but couldn't find a buyer. Why do you fail to respond to PMs here from someone who would be interested in buying your car? What ever happened to all the videos and pics you promised that would demonstrate the lengthy list of glaring defects that you whine about?
I care because I have some of each, I have a GT2RS, turbo s and a ZR1, have a hellcat too, there are many great cars, 13th Corvette, tough to beat for the money.
Its actually quite the opposite, its about how the rest of the 1 minute 24 seconds are different between both cars. Watch a ZR1 lap any race track, willow springs, road atlanta, VIR, any driver, every video has the same characteristic in that the car is very twitchy, very hard to keep under control. Then watch these GT cars, they take a corner butter smooth with almost no twitching of the car. Watch Randy’s ZR1 videos, he is literally fighting with the car.
Vette makes up the loss time fighting the car’s balance with sheer speed, a brute force torque approach. In the end it is almost as fast (or faster in some instances) but the overall experience is quite different. Have you ever seen anywhere on the planet in any race car application with an engine that has the characteristics of LT5? Probably for a good reason. You can certainly track this car with all the PTM magic and extra aero but driving experience is quite different.
I am no arm chair theorist. I have a decent amount of seat time in zr1 now and I have driven the standard GT3 (not RS) numerous times. Both go from A to B fast, but its not a fair comparison.
If I had a way of selling the zr1 without losing $30k, I would have done it.
I am not even mentioning the sheer number of issues I have with the car.
For example, of all the cars I have owned and driven including my father’s 1996 Hyundai Elantra, ZR1 is the only car where the steering column moves if you pull the steering wheel side to side (which is almost all the time while cornering strong). I have never seen anything like this. I have googled it and it looks like an issue that has happened to several C7 owners. Its mind boggling and to fix it required the dashboard to be removed.
Its actually quite the opposite, its about how the rest of the 1 minute 24 seconds are different between both cars. Watch a ZR1 lap any race track, willow springs, road atlanta, VIR, any driver, every video has the same characteristic in that the car is very twitchy, very hard to keep under control. Then watch these GT cars, they take a corner butter smooth with almost no twitching of the car. Watch Randy’s ZR1 videos, he is literally fighting with the car.
Vette makes up the loss time fighting the car’s balance with sheer speed, a brute force torque approach. In the end it is almost as fast (or faster in some instances) but the overall experience is quite different. Have you ever seen anywhere on the planet in any race car application with an engine that has the characteristics of LT5? Probably for a good reason. You can certainly track this car with all the PTM magic and extra aero but driving experience is quite different.
I am no arm chair theorist. I have a decent amount of seat time in zr1 now and I have driven the standard GT3 (not RS) numerous times. Both go from A to B fast, but its not a fair comparison.
If I had a way of selling the zr1 without losing $30k, I would have done it.
I am not even mentioning the sheer number of issues I have with the car.
For example, of all the cars I have owned and driven including my father’s 1996 Hyundai Elantra, ZR1 is the only car where the steering column moves if you pull the steering wheel side to side (which is almost all the time while cornering strong). I have never seen anything like this. I have googled it and it looks like an issue that has happened to several C7 owners. Its mind boggling and to fix it required the dashboard to be removed.
BS. I PM'ed you about the possibility of buying your car which would have been a retail sale and not a dealer dump out for a $30,000 loss and you never responded. You are full of crap. It is amazing how darn near every ZR1 owner I know or have seen post here on this forum are ecstatic about their cars and then there is you. Glaring defects, more than you can count in your words. Nonsense, not buyin it Dude. I'm starting to doubt that you even own a ZR1.
BS. I PM'ed you about the possibility of buying your car which would have been a retail sale and not a dealer dump out for a $30,000 loss and you never responded. You are full of crap. It is amazing how darn near every ZR1 owner I know or have seen post here on this forum are ecstatic about their cars and then there is you. Glaring defects, more than you can count in your words. Nonsense, not buyin it Dude. I'm starting to doubt that you even own a ZR1.
BS. I PM'ed you about the possibility of buying your car which would have been a retail sale and not a dealer dump out for a $30,000 loss and you never responded. You are full of crap. It is amazing how darn near every ZR1 owner I know or have seen post here on this forum are ecstatic about their cars and then there is you. Glaring defects, more than you can count in your words. Nonsense, not buyin it Dude. I'm starting to doubt that you even own a ZR1.
You think I am going to speak to someone who is clearly mentally unstable and take you seriously so you can harrass me in real life as well?
I dont care if you are buying it or not buying it. You are not the forum judge I need to impress or convince. I dont even know why i m responding to you.
I am going to add you to my ignore list so from now on you ll just be talking to yourself (you know they call those crazy).
If you can't appreciate GT350's, ZR1's and GT2's you're not a car guy......you're a fan boy. Unfortunately I can only afford the ZR1 and hate the looks of the Mustang. Still appreciate them all though.
Now continue on with your regularly scheduled ****-fight as the OP intended, LOL
03-28-2019, 11:36 AM
GT3RS with only 520 hp and 346 torque beats ZR1 in Road Atlanta
