AMG SL63 & M8 Competition owners - Thoughts?
05-07-2024, 05:16 PM
#21
I want an "everything" car. It's an unrealistic goal--but still possibly obtainable. There is an array of "ideal" factors I all consider; the best car is the one that accomplishes the most. AWD, power, convertible, cost, small lift. And just because the Sterrato and Dakar are hardtop--doesn't mean that they have to be; the models they are based upon do have convertible variants--which do not require any additional reinforcement.
And yes, it's going to be my daily. And the reason for those power levels is because I do not wish to heavily modify something else to get the requisite performance (making it unreliable). Nor is there a compelling case for compromising on power when settling for a lower amount opens up an slew of off-road specific options for far cheaper.
I had hope for a 2-door bronco being offered with the 3.5L ecoboost from the F-150. But then Ford dorked it up by making even the 2-door chassis too damn long--and offering a much more anemic engine for the Bronco Raptor; and then insult to injury by only offering that on the 4-doors.
Now I'm just curious because I've read/watched reviews of the M8 & SL63. And while they're a not quite as quick, they have cargo capacity, performance, luxury, etc. Giving up rally style lift (potential) and a HTC might be worth it in order to pay half the purchase price (used) and get features like ambient lighting (and a lack of OnStar fuckery).
So now I'm trying to explore ownership costs on these 2 specific models. That will likely be the determining factor. GM is doing its damnedest to convince me not to buy an ER new.
And yes, it's going to be my daily. And the reason for those power levels is because I do not wish to heavily modify something else to get the requisite performance (making it unreliable). Nor is there a compelling case for compromising on power when settling for a lower amount opens up an slew of off-road specific options for far cheaper.
I had hope for a 2-door bronco being offered with the 3.5L ecoboost from the F-150. But then Ford dorked it up by making even the 2-door chassis too damn long--and offering a much more anemic engine for the Bronco Raptor; and then insult to injury by only offering that on the 4-doors.
Now I'm just curious because I've read/watched reviews of the M8 & SL63. And while they're a not quite as quick, they have cargo capacity, performance, luxury, etc. Giving up rally style lift (potential) and a HTC might be worth it in order to pay half the purchase price (used) and get features like ambient lighting (and a lack of OnStar fuckery).
So now I'm trying to explore ownership costs on these 2 specific models. That will likely be the determining factor. GM is doing its damnedest to convince me not to buy an ER new.
First an RS350 is nothing like a C43 AMG…. Regardless if certain specs are close. The RS350 is an extremely capable “rally car with a license plate and AC”. It’s fast, handles well and is pretty high strung…. The C43 is Mercedes performance based luxury coupe. Nothing against Fords but they are not built like a Mercedes… they can’t be based on cost alone. The C43 (I’m biased because I’m on my second and I can’t find anything to replace it for what I want to spend) has AMG low end torque and although both are Turbo motors the AMG V6 is a smoother engine vs the Ford four banger…
I am biased for the C43 but although on paper it seems down on power… the reviews are almost all positive and every review compliments the power and says the car is very fast which is what I have always found. I’m very confident the C43 hangs with any 400HP plus vehicle.
I love cars and study the entire industry. I’m interested in anything with pistons and petrol however your ask for 500HP+, AWD and Convertible is not a common configuration.
In an effort to widen the pool of cars I would also look at 0-60 and 1/4 mile times as well as pure HP numbers. Or HP per ton. The current forced induction German cars are amazingly fast. Whatever you choose forced induction is going to be good for performance with the low end torque. If you wanted a sedan you can’t get more performance than an AWD M5. Those cars are faster that super cars a decade ago.
I need to poke around and get some ideas and data….
Last edited by 24RiptideBlue; 05-10-2024 at 02:27 PM.
05-07-2024, 11:35 PM
#22
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
M5 would be near the top of my list if I were looking for a sedan. Though I would probably end up with a Charger hellcat due to cost (if I can stomach RWD). And a CT6 V is quite rare--thus probably ruling it out (big fan of the LTA engine); 875 total made. And I'd have to worry about how bespoke the engine is and parts/costs/replacement.
05-08-2024, 07:58 AM
#23
Race Director
The ct6VBW uses the same motor as the Escalade V, Camaro ZL1, c7 Z06 and zr1, and is really an LT1 with a blower. Nothing bespoke about it.
05-08-2024, 09:02 AM
#24
Safety Car
Member Since: Dec 2009
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2022 C2 of the Year Finalist - Modified
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You are thinking of the CT5 V Blackwing LT4 - the CT6 V BW has what is considered the reverse head design of the upcoming ZR1 but at only 4.2L of displacement - twin turbo in a "hot V" configuration (the ZR1 will feature the turbos in a standard location alongside of the engine).
05-08-2024, 10:24 AM
#25
Race Director
You are thinking of the CT5 V Blackwing LT4 - the CT6 V BW has what is considered the reverse head design of the upcoming ZR1 but at only 4.2L of displacement - twin turbo in a "hot V" configuration (the ZR1 will feature the turbos in a standard location alongside of the engine).
Yeah you couldn't pay me to take one of those. That's asking for an unrepairable vehicle lol.
05-08-2024, 12:50 PM
#26
M5 would be near the top of my list if I were looking for a sedan. Though I would probably end up with a Charger hellcat due to cost (if I can stomach RWD). And a CT6 V is quite rare--thus probably ruling it out (big fan of the LTA engine); 875 total made. And I'd have to worry about how bespoke the engine is and parts/costs/replacement.
If you drove a Hellcat and M5 back to back… unless you’re launching your drifting career you will want to get back in the M5…. I love driving fast but I have to feel confident the car can do what I want and not kill me…
Said another way…. I love fast cars that have the power to get me in trouble….. but also have the brakes, tires and suspension to get me out of trouble before something bad happens….and to all the video stars who crash their car trying to get the rear end loose…. LIFT…. the second it starts going wrong…. LIFT…. and try again. 😁
Last edited by 24RiptideBlue; 05-08-2024 at 02:35 PM.
05-08-2024, 01:20 PM
#27
Here’s an example of looking at performance vs specs…. You have a 500HP requirement… which is hard to find in an AWD convertible…
Picking out of thin air I chose a 2014 Bentley Continental GT Speed convertible that meets all three criteria (AWD, 500HP, Convertible)
the Speed is a W12 engine
616 HP
590 ft/lb of torque
0-60 4.2 seconds
1/4 mile 12.4 seconds
If you choose the V8 Continental
521 HP
502 ft/lb torque
0-60 4.5 seconds
Didn’t see a 1/4 mile time….
So take those 500HP models vs my sub 400HP C43 AMG
362 HP
384 ft/lb torque
0-60 4.1 seconds
1/4 mile 12.7 seconds
More than once a Mustang or something else “hot” pulls up next to me at a light and by the time we hit 50mph they are two car lengths back 🤷♂️.. I have read the Mercedes 9 speed transmission has a lot to do with AMG performance because the first three gears are really low and it shifts quickly which give these cars amazing 0-60 performance…. which is 90-95% of street driving… I can’t remember the last time I drove a hundred mph.
adding some prices from my usual rigorous in-depth analysis (meaning the first things I see in 10 seconds of searching 🤷♂️)
2014-16 Bentley W12 - $100k - $115k
2014-16 Bentley V8 - $68k - $88k
2018-19 C43 AMG $30 - $38k
Picking out of thin air I chose a 2014 Bentley Continental GT Speed convertible that meets all three criteria (AWD, 500HP, Convertible)
the Speed is a W12 engine
616 HP
590 ft/lb of torque
0-60 4.2 seconds
1/4 mile 12.4 seconds
If you choose the V8 Continental
521 HP
502 ft/lb torque
0-60 4.5 seconds
Didn’t see a 1/4 mile time….
So take those 500HP models vs my sub 400HP C43 AMG
362 HP
384 ft/lb torque
0-60 4.1 seconds
1/4 mile 12.7 seconds
More than once a Mustang or something else “hot” pulls up next to me at a light and by the time we hit 50mph they are two car lengths back 🤷♂️.. I have read the Mercedes 9 speed transmission has a lot to do with AMG performance because the first three gears are really low and it shifts quickly which give these cars amazing 0-60 performance…. which is 90-95% of street driving… I can’t remember the last time I drove a hundred mph.
adding some prices from my usual rigorous in-depth analysis (meaning the first things I see in 10 seconds of searching 🤷♂️)
2014-16 Bentley W12 - $100k - $115k
2014-16 Bentley V8 - $68k - $88k
2018-19 C43 AMG $30 - $38k
Last edited by 24RiptideBlue; 05-08-2024 at 02:23 PM.
05-08-2024, 02:45 PM
#29
Last edited by 24RiptideBlue; 05-08-2024 at 02:51 PM.
05-08-2024, 03:50 PM
#30
Race Director
My X50 M50i does 0-60 in 3.9, in a decent sized SUV. The C43 is a small car. I get wanting to go one way or the other.
I don't get wanting a lifted convertible. Buy a 392 wrangler already.
I don't get wanting a lifted convertible. Buy a 392 wrangler already.
05-08-2024, 03:58 PM
#31
The 392 wrangler would be my choice if I wanted that type capability. A G 550 is similar and the older ones aren’t stupid money like new ones. $200k for a G63 is crazy…. Older G wagons are solid vehicles but again you have to make sure you get one that hasn’t been abused.
I do like the size of the C43. Most of the time I’m the only one in the car and I like to zip around…. The larger “63” AMG…. E, S, or the countless SUVs might be faster but it’s hard (for me) to make a vehicle that size dance like my car….
Last edited by 24RiptideBlue; 05-08-2024 at 04:38 PM.
05-08-2024, 04:18 PM
#32
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
All lifts are not equal. A 2" rally lift does not even remotely equate to a 12" rock-crawling lift. It's much easier to get a sports car to rally spec than it is to get a dedicated off-road behemoth like a Wrangler to be fast and slam it down to rally height.
05-08-2024, 04:56 PM
#33
Adjusting ride height is a major part of the process for anyone that “builds” their cars (in the broadest sense).,,, but I generally don’t mess with ride height because I don’t really know anything about it except that I didn’t do well in geometry 😎… the little that I do know is as said a 2” change is not a 12” change and I would think anything within 2” is going to be ok… if it’s a modern high performance car with all the technology modern cars have I wouldn’t change it more than an inch. But that’s me… almost anyone knows more about ride height and suspension adjustments than I do.
05-08-2024, 05:24 PM
#34
Race Director
Also worth noting that the transfer cases and hubs in a lot of these cars will not support a larger diameter wheel and tire package. So your lift would be pointless and you'd have a hard time getting all terrain tires anyways.
05-08-2024, 05:34 PM
#35
Massive!!! 👍 Agreed! I've been to the Mercedes-Benz woodshed buying new once - never again.
Some of their used models are very delectable to me. I picked up a mint condition sedan from Mercedes-Benz of San Antonio, TX, an 8-year old, 2006 E320 CDI with 59K miles for $18,500.00. List was mid-$50K new!😳 My DD - I L♡ve the car!
I'd buy a 1-owner late model FordGT, and be done with it.....no depreciation there. 😉
Some of their used models are very delectable to me. I picked up a mint condition sedan from Mercedes-Benz of San Antonio, TX, an 8-year old, 2006 E320 CDI with 59K miles for $18,500.00. List was mid-$50K new!😳 My DD - I L♡ve the car!
I'd buy a 1-owner late model FordGT, and be done with it.....no depreciation there. 😉
Last edited by Skid Row Joe; 05-08-2024 at 05:42 PM.
05-09-2024, 07:46 AM
#36
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Are you actually going to drive it down rocky dirt roads? Or is this just an ego thing like most lifts? A 2" rally lift on a performance car isnt gonna do much, you're still gonna scrape and break stuff immediately going down a gravel or dirt road.
Also worth noting that the transfer cases and hubs in a lot of these cars will not support a larger diameter wheel and tire package. So your lift would be pointless and you'd have a hard time getting all terrain tires anyways.
Also worth noting that the transfer cases and hubs in a lot of these cars will not support a larger diameter wheel and tire package. So your lift would be pointless and you'd have a hard time getting all terrain tires anyways.
Hardly an ego thing when previous, stock-height cars I've had are scraping just driving down regular streets in my town--unless I take extreme caution and always approach at oblique angles.
05-09-2024, 08:28 AM
#37
Race Director
A stock C8 sits too low for my personal taste; virtually all sports cars do. And yes, I do plan to drive on sand, gravel, snow, dirt, etc. Also, I plan to downsize rims, not upsize. I like sidewall.
Hardly an ego thing when previous, stock-height cars I've had are scraping just driving down regular streets in my town--unless I take extreme caution and always approach at oblique angles.
Hardly an ego thing when previous, stock-height cars I've had are scraping just driving down regular streets in my town--unless I take extreme caution and always approach at oblique angles.
You're gonna be much happier in a 392 wrangler because you'll actually be able to get one and have it work. You could probably even lower it some.
05-09-2024, 12:01 PM
#38
Team Owner
If you want rally, buy a rally type car (WRX, GR Corolla, Focus RS), if you want a fast vert, buy what you’ve mentioned, if you want some other weirdness, buy that. You need to figure out what you want as it sounds like you’re all over the place.
05-10-2024, 12:45 AM
#39
As mentioned there are some rally based vehicles. Subaru still makes a WRX, the RS 350 you mentioned, for convertibles Mercedes makes more convertibles than other manufacturers and a few are AMG performance based but non are technically off-road that I’m aware of. The 392 wrangler really could be an option. Not a conventional convertible but the roof comes off. Or the AMG G wagon if you can find one the right age that they don’t want stupid money for it.
To really meet the 500 plus HP and Convertible and off road you may need to have a car built. Find a domestic convertible that you can have a custom chassis built. The Roadster shop can build you anything. Pick the body that you want. Drop it on your custom lifted RS chassis and put in a supercharged LS motor with a six speed (manual or automatic) and you are living large. It’s a $200k car but it’s exactly what you want. And you probably never need another car.
Building my own car is my dream but I can’t justify spending Ferrari money on something custom built because it won’t be better than a Ferrari or McLaren…. But if nobody makes what you want….. that’s justification right there 😎
To really meet the 500 plus HP and Convertible and off road you may need to have a car built. Find a domestic convertible that you can have a custom chassis built. The Roadster shop can build you anything. Pick the body that you want. Drop it on your custom lifted RS chassis and put in a supercharged LS motor with a six speed (manual or automatic) and you are living large. It’s a $200k car but it’s exactly what you want. And you probably never need another car.
Building my own car is my dream but I can’t justify spending Ferrari money on something custom built because it won’t be better than a Ferrari or McLaren…. But if nobody makes what you want….. that’s justification right there 😎
05-10-2024, 01:00 AM
#40
A stock C8 sits too low for my personal taste; virtually all sports cars do. And yes, I do plan to drive on sand, gravel, snow, dirt, etc. Also, I plan to downsize rims, not upsize. I like sidewall.
Hardly an ego thing when previous, stock-height cars I've had are scraping just driving down regular streets in my town--unless I take extreme caution and always approach at oblique angles.
Hardly an ego thing when previous, stock-height cars I've had are scraping just driving down regular streets in my town--unless I take extreme caution and always approach at oblique angles.
It sounds like the roads are really rough were you regularly drive which drives the requirement for a lift and off road capability. This is unfortunately a total mismatch with convertibles which have a weaker than average structure because they have no roof.
Hence why I punted on main manufacturer vehicles and think you need to get creative and figure out how to get something built.
Or you give up the convertible and get an older SUV you can LS swap or if you want a factory warranty go with the 392 Wrangler, or TRX or Raptor. Or something similar from gm if they make anything besides that awful EV Hummer.