LS1 vs. Import?
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,047
Likes: 43
From: Longview Texas
LS1 vs. Import?
Dallas Raceway is having their first annual Domestic vs. Import shootout October 19-20. We plan to run it simply because that facility is amazing (all concrete pits!), the weather should be good with near sea level conditions, and it will give Wendy more seat time before we class race next year. I'm curious how the LS1 will stack up vs. the Imports in their All Motor class. Here is what I got from the web site:
http://184.154.141.235/~dallasra/***...otoutRules.pdf
If you're bored you can compare the LS1 rules vs. the Imports. Basically for us it's a cam only bolt-on class. We run a stock lift/duration cam and will be a little heavy (according to their rules) but should only be leaving a little on the table in those two areas. I'm curious how quick an Import can go NA based on their rules. With the weight, DA, and traction we're expecting that day we should be in the 11.50 range. Are we going to get "drug" by a FWD car (that's how the cool people on Street Outlaws say it)?
Scott
http://184.154.141.235/~dallasra/***...otoutRules.pdf
If you're bored you can compare the LS1 rules vs. the Imports. Basically for us it's a cam only bolt-on class. We run a stock lift/duration cam and will be a little heavy (according to their rules) but should only be leaving a little on the table in those two areas. I'm curious how quick an Import can go NA based on their rules. With the weight, DA, and traction we're expecting that day we should be in the 11.50 range. Are we going to get "drug" by a FWD car (that's how the cool people on Street Outlaws say it)?
Scott
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,261
Likes: 26
From: Concord NC
Import rules say weight of 2150 and any internal engine modifications allowed. My brother owns an import shop, the Honda guys with built K series engine swaps are making close to 400whp n/a! At the race weight in the rules they will be running close to 9's some maybe even in the nines!
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V0RvA-IybrY
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V0RvA-IybrY
Last edited by Shoaf85; Sep 27, 2013 at 05:00 PM.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,047
Likes: 43
From: Longview Texas
Import rules say weight of 2150 and any internal engine modifications allowed. My brother owns an import shop, the Honda guys with built K series engine swaps are making close to 400whp n/a! At the race weight in the rules they will be running close to 9's some maybe even in the nines!
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V0RvA-IybrY
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V0RvA-IybrY
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,261
Likes: 26
From: Concord NC
No problem....seems most import vs domestic rules are slightly biased towards imports from my experience. With that said its still impressive what those little engines are capable of. Good luck at the event nonetheless!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,536
Likes: 15
This would be fun........all motor looks like serious challenge for the domestic cars.
the rules are way lose for the imports and overly strict for the domestics....lol......example.....max cubic inch, 15.1cr, billet headed, alcohol guzzling honda in a 2000lb ride vs a cam only LS1 @ 3200lbs......
(maybe I misread the rules)
Id like to go give them a run for their money
the rules are way lose for the imports and overly strict for the domestics....lol......example.....max cubic inch, 15.1cr, billet headed, alcohol guzzling honda in a 2000lb ride vs a cam only LS1 @ 3200lbs......
(maybe I misread the rules)Id like to go give them a run for their money
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Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,047
Likes: 43
From: Longview Texas
If you make it you'll have to look us up. Wendy is going to grill something good on Saturday. Oh wait ... she is driving ... I'll have to do the cooking. 
Thanks for the input. I had NO idea about how well Imports could run. I was basing my information on what a cam only bolt-on LS1 could go at that weight. I would think if you went low 11s with a cam and no head work you'd be doing well. So to think the Import guys will possibly go 9s would definitely be like bringing a butter knife to a gun fight. If that is the case we'll fit perfectly into the 11.50 class and have a great weekend!
Scott
Thanks for the input. I had NO idea about how well Imports could run. I was basing my information on what a cam only bolt-on LS1 could go at that weight. I would think if you went low 11s with a cam and no head work you'd be doing well. So to think the Import guys will possibly go 9s would definitely be like bringing a butter knife to a gun fight. If that is the case we'll fit perfectly into the 11.50 class and have a great weekend!
Scott
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,937
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From: My interests are mobile
This would be fun........all motor looks like serious challenge for the domestic cars.
the rules are way lose for the imports and overly strict for the domestics....lol......example.....max cubic inch, 15.1cr, billet headed, alcohol guzzling honda in a 2000lb ride with 2.0 liters vs a cam only LS1 @ 3200lbs at 5.7 liters...... (maybe I misread the rules). Plus you're discounting the huge advantage of RWD.
Id like to go give them a run for their money
the rules are way lose for the imports and overly strict for the domestics....lol......example.....max cubic inch, 15.1cr, billet headed, alcohol guzzling honda in a 2000lb ride with 2.0 liters vs a cam only LS1 @ 3200lbs at 5.7 liters......
(maybe I misread the rules). Plus you're discounting the huge advantage of RWD.Id like to go give them a run for their money
I think it sounds like a cool event. 11's are pretty easy all motor in a Honda...10's and lower is where it gets tough and the money starts to rise. Most of your guys are running high 10's low 11's. The low 10's and 9's are generally well sponsored or very well known builders in highly developed cars. You do have Endyn down in Texas though...he's a wizard with Honda engines...he'll build a 300whp N/A 2.0 liter spinning to 9500rpm, running on pump gas, in Tx heat as easy as changing a set of brake pads...
Gonna have to catch some vids of that event after it happens...
AMP Racing
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Washington TWP NJ
2023 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
2017 C5 of Year Finalist
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-'12
Take a look at the rules for the import vs domestic race at Maryland international raceway in November. I would imagine the rules are similar. Their all motor entry class is low 10s high 9s.
Good luck at the race. Run the index. Chances are, for the most part, they can't cut a light.
Good luck at the race. Run the index. Chances are, for the most part, they can't cut a light.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,536
Likes: 15
An LS1 is nearly 3x the displacement...lol...why is that unfair? I built Honda's for over 10 years...a good friend of mine is Bisi Ezerioha. He did 9's in a unibody car with a single cam F20 from an old Accord.
I think it sounds like a cool event. 11's are pretty easy all motor in a Honda...10's and lower is where it gets tough and the money starts to rise. Most of your guys are running high 10's low 11's. The low 10's and 9's are generally well sponsored or very well known builders in highly developed cars. You do have Endyn down in Texas though...he's a wizard with Honda engines...he'll build a 300whp N/A 2.0 liter spinning to 9500rpm, running on pump gas, in Tx heat as easy as changing a set of brake pads...
Gonna have to catch some vids of that event after it happens...
I think it sounds like a cool event. 11's are pretty easy all motor in a Honda...10's and lower is where it gets tough and the money starts to rise. Most of your guys are running high 10's low 11's. The low 10's and 9's are generally well sponsored or very well known builders in highly developed cars. You do have Endyn down in Texas though...he's a wizard with Honda engines...he'll build a 300whp N/A 2.0 liter spinning to 9500rpm, running on pump gas, in Tx heat as easy as changing a set of brake pads...
Gonna have to catch some vids of that event after it happens...
There are a few thing I have no idea about........
~whats max cubic inch available for a Honda n/a "racecar" (max stroke & bore with zero limit to spending) ?? With no concerns towards radiator/cooling and such....
~now take the upper limits of bmep with a 4 valve engine (this is a guess, but a 2.5L in the neighborhood of 3.0 hp per cube would seem very doable).
~now do the hp per minimum vehicle weight...
who do the rules tend to favor ??
It seems to me that the hp will be almost equal but one car will be over 1000lbs lighter.
Im not complaining....lol....just stating what seems obvious to me, but then again I know zero about Honda performance.
Moderator
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 22,678
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lol.....I meant no disrespect. But looking at the rules its clear its a full on race car/trailer queen vs a cam only LS setup.
There are a few thing I have no idea about........
~whats max cubic inch available for a Honda n/a "racecar" (max stroke & bore with zero limit to spending) ?? With no concerns towards radiator/cooling and such....
~now take the upper limits of bmep with a 4 valve engine (this is a guess, but a 2.5L in the neighborhood of 3.0 hp per cube would seem very doable).
~now do the hp per minimum vehicle weight...
who do the rules tend to favor ??
It seems to me that the hp will be almost equal but one car will be over 1000lbs lighter.
Im not complaining....lol....just stating what seems obvious to me, but then again I know zero about Honda performance.
There are a few thing I have no idea about........
~whats max cubic inch available for a Honda n/a "racecar" (max stroke & bore with zero limit to spending) ?? With no concerns towards radiator/cooling and such....
~now take the upper limits of bmep with a 4 valve engine (this is a guess, but a 2.5L in the neighborhood of 3.0 hp per cube would seem very doable).
~now do the hp per minimum vehicle weight...
who do the rules tend to favor ??
It seems to me that the hp will be almost equal but one car will be over 1000lbs lighter.
Im not complaining....lol....just stating what seems obvious to me, but then again I know zero about Honda performance.
AMP Racing
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 10,754
Likes: 589
From: Washington TWP NJ
2023 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
2017 C5 of Year Finalist
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-'12
This is the race I mentioned in my earlier reply.
http://importvsdomestic.com/
They have rules and results posted from previous years to see the times some of these cars run.
Compare them to the rules for your event and see where you fall...
Max effort under the rules. Maybe bending them slightly. It's gonna be a fast class.
http://importvsdomestic.com/
They have rules and results posted from previous years to see the times some of these cars run.
Compare them to the rules for your event and see where you fall...
Max effort under the rules. Maybe bending them slightly. It's gonna be a fast class.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,536
Likes: 15
This is the race I mentioned in my earlier reply.
http://importvsdomestic.com/
They have rules and results posted from previous years to see the times some of these cars run.
Compare them to the rules for your event and see where you fall...
Max effort under the rules. Maybe bending them slightly. It's gonna be a fast class.
http://importvsdomestic.com/
They have rules and results posted from previous years to see the times some of these cars run.
Compare them to the rules for your event and see where you fall...
Max effort under the rules. Maybe bending them slightly. It's gonna be a fast class.
Think Im gunna go.....says I can weigh 2850lbs and with my 243's its a good fit in the all motor class.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,261
Likes: 26
From: Concord NC
Thanks for the link....yep, its a 10'oh class. With the only difference being weather, bet MIR in Nov produces better times than Dallas in Oct (but that discussion has already been beat to death..lol.).
Think Im gunna go.....says I can weigh 2850lbs and with my 243's its a good fit in the all motor class.
Think Im gunna go.....says I can weigh 2850lbs and with my 243's its a good fit in the all motor class.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Okinawa
Melting Slicks
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From: El Paso TX.