lost my first race
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,978
Likes: 110
From: Switzerland
lost my first race
well, kind of race and kind of lost. my 99 c5 (automatic) has a centri blower and is otherwise stock. i cought up with a bmw m5 and the guy started pulling at about 60 kmh. i was in second gear and he got away until i came into the powerband. then i was able to keep up. i shifted into third and went of the throttle at about 140 kmh (speed limit is 80), but he stayed on it and disappeared.
im surprised that thing is so fast. it must have been the new biturbo, rated at 560 hp and 760 nm. im seeing 0.6 bars at 5500 and 0.8 at 6400, so i figure i have the same power, but the bmw is half a ton heavier.
this made me wonder about our gear ratios. why do we need a 3:1 first gear? that takes you to 3200 when shifting at 6000. 2.5:1 would make more sence.
im surprised that thing is so fast. it must have been the new biturbo, rated at 560 hp and 760 nm. im seeing 0.6 bars at 5500 and 0.8 at 6400, so i figure i have the same power, but the bmw is half a ton heavier.
this made me wonder about our gear ratios. why do we need a 3:1 first gear? that takes you to 3200 when shifting at 6000. 2.5:1 would make more sence.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,136
Likes: 139
From: Port St Lucie Florida
well, kind of race and kind of lost. my 99 c5 (automatic) has a centri blower and is otherwise stock. i cought up with a bmw m5 and the guy started pulling at about 60 kmh. i was in second gear and he got away until i came into the powerband. then i was able to keep up. i shifted into third and went of the throttle at about 140 kmh (speed limit is 80), but he stayed on it and disappeared.
im surprised that thing is so fast. it must have been the new biturbo, rated at 560 hp and 760 nm. im seeing 0.6 bars at 5500 and 0.8 at 6400, so i figure i have the same power, but the bmw is half a ton heavier.
this made me wonder about our gear ratios. why do we need a 3:1 first gear? that takes you to 3200 when shifting at 6000. 2.5:1 would make more sence.
im surprised that thing is so fast. it must have been the new biturbo, rated at 560 hp and 760 nm. im seeing 0.6 bars at 5500 and 0.8 at 6400, so i figure i have the same power, but the bmw is half a ton heavier.
this made me wonder about our gear ratios. why do we need a 3:1 first gear? that takes you to 3200 when shifting at 6000. 2.5:1 would make more sence.
A4 which is what I have are more consistant in a straight line race. You might have gotten him in a straight line race, A lot of factors to consider. Don't feel bad.
Last edited by corvet786c; Nov 26, 2015 at 07:14 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 16,253
Likes: 1,657
From: Arizona
I had my 2000 FRC with me out in Germany (2006) and caught up with a BMW M5 as well. We were both game, and it was on!
It was a very fun cat/mouse chase from Frankfurt all the way back to Wurzburg. And neither of us could gain any true distance due to road traffic and playing safe. However, once we got into the outskirts of Wurzburg, the Autobahn opened up to 3 or 4 lanes and we both mashed it.
At that time, I had a forged 402, heads, cam, intake, longtube headers, exhaust, tuned etc and put down 505 tq and 495 HP.
I barely pulled him at top speed, BUT I PULLED HIM.
We were over 190 mph when I began to pull him. Other than that, it was dead even all the way up to 191 mph when I backed off and he blew passed waving and smiling while his wife was reading the Deutsche Gazette and shaking her head. Hahahahah
Ya win some, ya lose some. I lost horribly to a 996TT with "upgraded turbos" that pulled me so hard, I watched his taillights disappear on Autobahn 5, outside Frankfurt. When we returned to our link-up side, only then did he tell me he had his turbos upgraded and reached 204 mph!!
Have fun. Be safe.
Also check out RACE WARS in Eisenach, Germany. Alot of fun!!
It was a very fun cat/mouse chase from Frankfurt all the way back to Wurzburg. And neither of us could gain any true distance due to road traffic and playing safe. However, once we got into the outskirts of Wurzburg, the Autobahn opened up to 3 or 4 lanes and we both mashed it.
At that time, I had a forged 402, heads, cam, intake, longtube headers, exhaust, tuned etc and put down 505 tq and 495 HP.
I barely pulled him at top speed, BUT I PULLED HIM.
We were over 190 mph when I began to pull him. Other than that, it was dead even all the way up to 191 mph when I backed off and he blew passed waving and smiling while his wife was reading the Deutsche Gazette and shaking her head. Hahahahah
Ya win some, ya lose some. I lost horribly to a 996TT with "upgraded turbos" that pulled me so hard, I watched his taillights disappear on Autobahn 5, outside Frankfurt. When we returned to our link-up side, only then did he tell me he had his turbos upgraded and reached 204 mph!!
Have fun. Be safe.
Also check out RACE WARS in Eisenach, Germany. Alot of fun!!
Last edited by WICKEDFRC; Nov 26, 2015 at 07:27 AM.
Moderator
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 22,674
Likes: 943
well, kind of race and kind of lost. my 99 c5 (automatic) has a centri blower and is otherwise stock. i cought up with a bmw m5 and the guy started pulling at about 60 kmh. i was in second gear and he got away until i came into the powerband. then i was able to keep up. i shifted into third and went of the throttle at about 140 kmh (speed limit is 80), but he stayed on it and disappeared.
im surprised that thing is so fast. it must have been the new biturbo, rated at 560 hp and 760 nm. im seeing 0.6 bars at 5500 and 0.8 at 6400, so i figure i have the same power, but the bmw is half a ton heavier.
this made me wonder about our gear ratios. why do we need a 3:1 first gear? that takes you to 3200 when shifting at 6000. 2.5:1 would make more sence.
im surprised that thing is so fast. it must have been the new biturbo, rated at 560 hp and 760 nm. im seeing 0.6 bars at 5500 and 0.8 at 6400, so i figure i have the same power, but the bmw is half a ton heavier.
this made me wonder about our gear ratios. why do we need a 3:1 first gear? that takes you to 3200 when shifting at 6000. 2.5:1 would make more sence.
A blower car will need about 100 hp more than a N/A car to beat it because of the way blower consume power and make peak boost, until the compressor is at full speed, you aren't at full boost or power and a N/A car will leave you.
My guess is that a turbo car would run similarly, no parasitic loss from the blower and full boost much quicker. So you may make the same or similar power, the other guy may have made max power well before you did (area under the curve) and that's why he beat you with a heavier car and similar power.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,978
Likes: 110
From: Switzerland
http://www.bmw.ch/dam/brandBM/common...3899041491.jpg
0-100kmh time is advertised at 4.3 sec. weight 1950 kg. he only gets full power at 6000 rpm.
well anyway, its a nice car and surprisingly not so expensive at around $110 000. he had no problems putting the power to the ground. apparently he gets full boost at 1500 rpm.
0-100kmh time is advertised at 4.3 sec. weight 1950 kg. he only gets full power at 6000 rpm.
well anyway, its a nice car and surprisingly not so expensive at around $110 000. he had no problems putting the power to the ground. apparently he gets full boost at 1500 rpm.
Last edited by romandian; Nov 26, 2015 at 02:04 PM.
Moderator
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 22,674
Likes: 943
http://www.bmw.ch/dam/brandBM/common...3899041491.jpg
0-100kmh time is advertised at 4.3 sec. weight 1950 kg. he only gets full power at 6000 rpm.
well anyway, its a nice car and surprisingly not so expensive at around $110 000. he had no problems putting the power to the ground. apparently he gets full boost at 1500 rpm.
0-100kmh time is advertised at 4.3 sec. weight 1950 kg. he only gets full power at 6000 rpm.
well anyway, its a nice car and surprisingly not so expensive at around $110 000. he had no problems putting the power to the ground. apparently he gets full boost at 1500 rpm.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,978
Likes: 110
From: Switzerland
i dont really agree, its more a matter of gearing probably. he has a 7 speed auto i understand. if i had a taller first i could have used it and he woul not have been able to get away at 60 kmh. on the other hand im sure i cant put more than about 15%+ power to the ground being in second so im intrigued how it works on the m5 sedan. the weight distibution must be less favourable, but maybe not?
i find this interesting. how can boost be all in from 1500 to almost 6000? a sequential set up probably. however i have done a sequential engine before and boost was all in 2400, redline being 6700. so i dont know.
btw, im getting full bost at the rpm i choose to shift at.
quick calculation: his 4.3 sec. c5 is (from memory, auto) 4.9. o.k. thats 0-60 mph. 96.5 kmh. we need another 3.6%. so even assuming acceleration is 30% lower it works out to 4.9 + 4.9 X 0.036 X 1.3 = 5.1 sec. if i had 50% more power (i must have more) in the relevant rpm band that should convert to 5.1/1.5 = 3.4 sec. remember, my boost goes up to 0.8 bars.
anyways, i learned im not king of the road, not yet, but i can still remove the restrictor and get up to 1 bar boost.
i find this interesting. how can boost be all in from 1500 to almost 6000? a sequential set up probably. however i have done a sequential engine before and boost was all in 2400, redline being 6700. so i dont know.
btw, im getting full bost at the rpm i choose to shift at.
quick calculation: his 4.3 sec. c5 is (from memory, auto) 4.9. o.k. thats 0-60 mph. 96.5 kmh. we need another 3.6%. so even assuming acceleration is 30% lower it works out to 4.9 + 4.9 X 0.036 X 1.3 = 5.1 sec. if i had 50% more power (i must have more) in the relevant rpm band that should convert to 5.1/1.5 = 3.4 sec. remember, my boost goes up to 0.8 bars.
anyways, i learned im not king of the road, not yet, but i can still remove the restrictor and get up to 1 bar boost.
Moderator
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 22,674
Likes: 943
i dont really agree, its more a matter of gearing probably. he has a 7 speed auto i understand. if i had a taller first i could have used it and he woul not have been able to get away at 60 kmh. on the other hand im sure i cant put more than about 15%+ power to the ground being in second so im intrigued how it works on the m5 sedan. the weight distibution must be less favourable, but maybe not?
i find this interesting. how can boost be all in from 1500 to almost 6000? a sequential set up probably. however i have done a sequential engine before and boost was all in 2400, redline being 6700. so i dont know.
btw, im getting full bost at the rpm i choose to shift at.
quick calculation: his 4.3 sec. c5 is (from memory, auto) 4.9. o.k. thats 0-60 mph. 96.5 kmh. we need another 3.6%. so even assuming acceleration is 30% lower it works out to 4.9 + 4.9 X 0.036 X 1.3 = 5.1 sec. if i had 50% more power (i must have more) in the relevant rpm band that should convert to 5.1/1.5 = 3.4 sec. remember, my boost goes up to 0.8 bars.
anyways, i learned im not king of the road, not yet, but i can still remove the restrictor and get up to 1 bar boost.
i find this interesting. how can boost be all in from 1500 to almost 6000? a sequential set up probably. however i have done a sequential engine before and boost was all in 2400, redline being 6700. so i dont know.
btw, im getting full bost at the rpm i choose to shift at.
quick calculation: his 4.3 sec. c5 is (from memory, auto) 4.9. o.k. thats 0-60 mph. 96.5 kmh. we need another 3.6%. so even assuming acceleration is 30% lower it works out to 4.9 + 4.9 X 0.036 X 1.3 = 5.1 sec. if i had 50% more power (i must have more) in the relevant rpm band that should convert to 5.1/1.5 = 3.4 sec. remember, my boost goes up to 0.8 bars.
anyways, i learned im not king of the road, not yet, but i can still remove the restrictor and get up to 1 bar boost.
A car with a peaky power band vs a car making the same or slightly less power but with a relatively flat power band is going to beat you because he's in power longer than you are.
To put it simply if I make 400lbft of tq at 2500 and peak at 5250 with 510 vs you making 550 tq at 5250 but not cresting 400 till 4500 rpm, I'm down the street while you're waiting on power.
Whether or not you agree is immaterial because the M5 with a flat tq curve just proved it.
Even if he didn't have full boost until 2400, you don't until around 4500-5000, you;re boost is dependent upon belt speed and the supercharger eats up some of your power.
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Corvette Engines RANKED by Peak Torque (70+ Years of Muscle!)
Joe Kucinski
Corvette ZR1X Will Be Pacing the Indy 500, And Could Probably Race, Too!
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Corvettes Coming to Mecum Indy 2026!
Brett Foote
Top 10 C9 Corvette MUST-HAVES to Fix These C8 Generation Flaws!
Michael S. Palmer
10 Revolutionary 'Corvette Firsts' Most People Don't Know
Joe Kucinski
5 Reasons to Upgrade to an LS6-Powered Corvette; 5 Reasons to Stay LT2
Michael S. Palmer
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,377
Likes: 41
From: Chesterfield (St. Louis) MO
I'm going to say it's a combination of tq curve, and gearing - with both going tremendously to the M5s advantage. Both of you guys are correct. That is my politically correct answer. 
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,978
Likes: 110
From: Switzerland
lol. if m5 shifts at 7500, where do the seven gears take him? no idea, to 5200 perhaps? the torque below that is nice, but doesnt matter for all out acceleration. i hope this is also politically correct. lol.
still a mystery to me, how he can hook up the power in a lower gear than my second. he has 295 street tires. i cant hook in first on r888s.
still a mystery to me, how he can hook up the power in a lower gear than my second. he has 295 street tires. i cant hook in first on r888s.
Last edited by romandian; Nov 28, 2015 at 01:10 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,377
Likes: 41
From: Chesterfield (St. Louis) MO
The benefit of having 7 gears instead of 4, is that the gears are more closely spaced, resulting in being in a more optimal RPM most of the time. Not to mention the tranny in the M5 is more advanced than the stock C5 auto tranny - shifts are much quicker.
Last edited by 95rtturbo; Nov 28, 2015 at 01:33 PM.
Moderator
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 22,674
Likes: 943
Yep, much like the M6 vs the M12 trans
Moderator
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 22,674
Likes: 943
lol. if m5 shifts at 7500, where do the seven gears take him? no idea, to 5200 perhaps? the torque below that is nice, but doesnt matter for all out acceleration. i hope this is also politically correct. lol.
still a mystery to me, how he can hook up the power in a lower gear than my second. he has 295 street tires. i cant hook in first on r888s.
still a mystery to me, how he can hook up the power in a lower gear than my second. he has 295 street tires. i cant hook in first on r888s.
If he has 400+ lb ft from 2000 rpm thru 6000 vs you having 250-300 below 4000 and cresting 400 around 4000 and peaking at 5250, you have far less overall torque.
Why do you think the fastest cars at 1/4, 1/2 and mile events are always TT cars? They build more torque across the powerband vs a peaky curve. HP is a selling point, thats why you here about it more, torque is far more beneficial but not nearly as "sexy" as HP.
If you make big TQ, you'll always make big HP, the inverse isnt always true
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,797
Likes: 52
From: Boise
It does matter, torque is what accelerates a car, not horsepower.
If he has 400+ lb ft from 2000 rpm thru 6000 vs you having 250-300 below 4000 and cresting 400 around 4000 and peaking at 5250, you have far less overall torque.
Why do you think the fastest cars at 1/4, 1/2 and mile events are always TT cars? They build more torque across the powerband vs a peaky curve. HP is a selling point, thats why you here about it more, torque is far more beneficial but not nearly as "sexy" as HP.
If you make big TQ, you'll always make big HP, the inverse isnt always true
If he has 400+ lb ft from 2000 rpm thru 6000 vs you having 250-300 below 4000 and cresting 400 around 4000 and peaking at 5250, you have far less overall torque.
Why do you think the fastest cars at 1/4, 1/2 and mile events are always TT cars? They build more torque across the powerband vs a peaky curve. HP is a selling point, thats why you here about it more, torque is far more beneficial but not nearly as "sexy" as HP.
If you make big TQ, you'll always make big HP, the inverse isnt always true
That BMW was probably modded making way more power than you.