what e.t. will 405 rwhp net?
01-03-2016, 04:46 PM
#41
Le Mans Master
I was told that the car has Z06 heads, mild cam, stock exhaust & zo6 intake. No documentation to prove it though. I haven't raced it yet and haven't compared it to anything yet but it seems pretty quick. He told me that he thought it might be close to 400 to the wheel. I'll have to take it to Vengence racing here in ATL and see what the dyno says. Tires are street 305/35/19's and 255/18's rear tires are bald
If you are making any kind of power you'll have to walk it off the line, roll into the gas, and will likely wheelhop on the 1-2 and spin on the shifts with street tires.
01-03-2016, 05:04 PM
#42
Le Mans Master
Say you have 2 almost identical late model corvettes at a track rental in near stock form, one is an auto and one is a manual.
The same driver runs the auto faster all day by .3 on average.
Ranger shows up and runs the manual car .1 faster than the auto ran all day in the same da.
So what car is faster based on et?
Some of you guys are saying the auto because most people can't drive the manual!??
The conclusion IMO is that the manual is faster if it runs faster even once if you take a huge sampling and compare it over many years. Stop blaming the car! lol
The same driver runs the auto faster all day by .3 on average.
Ranger shows up and runs the manual car .1 faster than the auto ran all day in the same da.
So what car is faster based on et?
Some of you guys are saying the auto because most people can't drive the manual!??
The conclusion IMO is that the manual is faster if it runs faster even once if you take a huge sampling and compare it over many years. Stop blaming the car! lol
01-03-2016, 10:28 PM
#43
Race Director
Member Since: Dec 2006
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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I disagree.
-- Even the newest auto transmissions (A8) with better gearing are showing approximately equal times to the manuals. And the manuals have more torque management to deal with built in from GM to prevent carnage with the hard hitting stick cars. Again it's easier with the auto so your going to get tons of great auto times before you get 1 great manual et.
Take out torque management on the c7Z and the manual might edge out the auto with better gearing and faster shifting in the 1/4 mile.
Not sure what the fastest c7 auto vs manual is but it should be close.
--As for an adjustable "slipper style" clutch I can offer a lot insight on stuff like this but most people choose to either make stuff up about them or listen to people who have absolutely no clue about what they are talking about. These type of clutches are as different and more than conventional diaphragm clutches are to each other. The first important point that many people don't understand. Some can be used as daily drivers and others I wouldn't drive up a trailer with. I would classify them into 5 different categories from perfectly streetable to racecar only. That's a discussion for another thread. I've written articles on this stuff I can reference in future discussions.
I would not consider this type of clutch to necessarily be more consistent than a standard clutch. Some can be more and some can be less, a lot depends on the skill of the tuner and the data that a team acquires in order to adjust them properly. There are different reasons people run them, consistency, doesn't come to the forefront, and a lot depends on the level of racing people are doing. I personally have/had many clutches of all different styles and the slipper style clutches that I own are typically less consistent than the standard style clutches for many reasons, again a topic for another day. I'd be happy to answer questions about this stuff to anyone interested in learning the pro's and cons of each and can help steer people in the right direction based on their needs, wants, and personality. And I can also tell you that a professional pro-stock clutch team member probably knows d*ck about the adjustable clutches available for our cars.
--As for a proshifted, faceplated transmissions, I don't see them making the car more consistent either. Seat time in the car on the street, at the track, and in the garage is what makes the driver more consistent.
In a heads up competition with a race prepped manual car on a pro-tree, I believe a 2-step is a must and can help with consistency for sure provided the car is sorted out for the launch otherwise forget it.
A 2-step with a drag radial is often inconsistent. Furthermore, a slipper style clutch will give up reaction time in our cars so if that's important you must factor that into the equation.
So my take home message to anyone who actually cares and chooses to have an opinion on this stuff is to learn and base your opinion on someone who has experience and knows what the hell they are talking about. It's not the parts that make the setup fast, quick, consistent, and efficient but the knowledge of the team that uses them the right way to work all together in harmony on the track. Too often I hear people making excuses that they don't have certain parts on their car that others do which in reality has nothing to do why they aren't going as fast as they could. I don't always respond to people when the say stuff that doesn't make sense to me but when I start seeing a trend develop, especially from racers with a good amount of knowledge, that is completely off base I feel compelled to respond and offer my experience. Feel free to ask me publically or privately questions that pertain to stuff I have a lot of experience with instead of making statements without much credibility.
IMO the auto is more consistent and much easier to run down the 1320' but not faster in many categories.
-- Even the newest auto transmissions (A8) with better gearing are showing approximately equal times to the manuals. And the manuals have more torque management to deal with built in from GM to prevent carnage with the hard hitting stick cars. Again it's easier with the auto so your going to get tons of great auto times before you get 1 great manual et.
Take out torque management on the c7Z and the manual might edge out the auto with better gearing and faster shifting in the 1/4 mile.
Not sure what the fastest c7 auto vs manual is but it should be close.
--As for an adjustable "slipper style" clutch I can offer a lot insight on stuff like this but most people choose to either make stuff up about them or listen to people who have absolutely no clue about what they are talking about. These type of clutches are as different and more than conventional diaphragm clutches are to each other. The first important point that many people don't understand. Some can be used as daily drivers and others I wouldn't drive up a trailer with. I would classify them into 5 different categories from perfectly streetable to racecar only. That's a discussion for another thread. I've written articles on this stuff I can reference in future discussions.
I would not consider this type of clutch to necessarily be more consistent than a standard clutch. Some can be more and some can be less, a lot depends on the skill of the tuner and the data that a team acquires in order to adjust them properly. There are different reasons people run them, consistency, doesn't come to the forefront, and a lot depends on the level of racing people are doing. I personally have/had many clutches of all different styles and the slipper style clutches that I own are typically less consistent than the standard style clutches for many reasons, again a topic for another day. I'd be happy to answer questions about this stuff to anyone interested in learning the pro's and cons of each and can help steer people in the right direction based on their needs, wants, and personality. And I can also tell you that a professional pro-stock clutch team member probably knows d*ck about the adjustable clutches available for our cars.
--As for a proshifted, faceplated transmissions, I don't see them making the car more consistent either. Seat time in the car on the street, at the track, and in the garage is what makes the driver more consistent.
In a heads up competition with a race prepped manual car on a pro-tree, I believe a 2-step is a must and can help with consistency for sure provided the car is sorted out for the launch otherwise forget it.
A 2-step with a drag radial is often inconsistent. Furthermore, a slipper style clutch will give up reaction time in our cars so if that's important you must factor that into the equation.
So my take home message to anyone who actually cares and chooses to have an opinion on this stuff is to learn and base your opinion on someone who has experience and knows what the hell they are talking about. It's not the parts that make the setup fast, quick, consistent, and efficient but the knowledge of the team that uses them the right way to work all together in harmony on the track. Too often I hear people making excuses that they don't have certain parts on their car that others do which in reality has nothing to do why they aren't going as fast as they could. I don't always respond to people when the say stuff that doesn't make sense to me but when I start seeing a trend develop, especially from racers with a good amount of knowledge, that is completely off base I feel compelled to respond and offer my experience. Feel free to ask me publically or privately questions that pertain to stuff I have a lot of experience with instead of making statements without much credibility.
IMO the auto is more consistent and much easier to run down the 1320' but not faster in many categories.
I am curious if you don't mind sharing as I know you have experience with them. If not for consistency, is it to keep from breaking parts then or because it's ultimately faster? I only have experience with this kind of "slipper" clutch...
http://tiltonracing.com/product/flow-control-valve/
My only experience of shifting a faceplated trans it didn't require the clutch pedal to be used, so I banged the gear when the engine hit the torque cut fwiw.
Sincerely, Chris
01-07-2016, 10:55 AM
#44
Drifting
DRIVER MOD IS HUGE WITH M6... Average person can Drive an AUTO fast.
ROBZ is way better than most with a manual... a good driver can make up .5 seconds.
The trick with the manual is LEAVING the LINE... 60ft makes the difference...
Which comes to other factors like tires and traction on top of the Driver... Even ROBZ on a bad track with bad tires will look bad.
ROBZ is way better than most with a manual... a good driver can make up .5 seconds.
The trick with the manual is LEAVING the LINE... 60ft makes the difference...
Which comes to other factors like tires and traction on top of the Driver... Even ROBZ on a bad track with bad tires will look bad.
01-07-2016, 12:55 PM
#45
DRIVER MOD IS HUGE WITH M6... Average person can Drive an AUTO fast.
ROBZ is way better than most with a manual... a good driver can make up .5 seconds.
The trick with the manual is LEAVING the LINE... 60ft makes the difference...
Which comes to other factors like tires and traction on top of the Driver... Even ROBZ on a bad track with bad tires will look bad.
ROBZ is way better than most with a manual... a good driver can make up .5 seconds.
The trick with the manual is LEAVING the LINE... 60ft makes the difference...
Which comes to other factors like tires and traction on top of the Driver... Even ROBZ on a bad track with bad tires will look bad.
01-07-2016, 06:18 PM
#46
Le Mans Master
the track is there
the tire likes it
the suspension likes it.
So basically if you can maintain traction then YES. If you are experiencing a lot of wheelspin on the shifts that you can feel while going down the track then it makes sense that powershifting is going to slow you down.
The best way to tell is to log passes and see what happens with and without powershifting.
A gmeter can be a great tool to dial in shiftpoints and/ or whether to powershift or not and in which gear.
My advice on this is to get really consistent at speed shifting so you know what your car runs and are very comfortable being aggressive on the strip.
Get a shiftlight and see what's the best rpm for best et/mph. With these cars it will most often be how high you want to rev it without hitting the limiter.
Since powershifting is hard on parts then only do so when the air is good and you are having a good day, and limit the amount of times you do.
The trick here is that it's hard just to powershift one pass then not another so my advice is to practice in the garage and a few days before you plan on shifting that way so you do so with conviction otherwise it wont be worth it.
If you have your limiter set on 6900 and you normally speed shift at 6700 then you may need to lower the shift light to 6600 when powershifting.
If your car makes a lot of torque and you don't have the perfect tires it make run best powershifting the 2-3 and 3-4. You have to experiment with it and like I said be mentally prepared to do so. A good time to do your final simulation and visualization is right after the burnout before you stage if you are at a rental or even T&T.
So, in summary there is et and mph to be had but everything has to be right including track conditions, the cars tire and suspension, and most importantly the drivers state of mind.
Last edited by robz; 01-07-2016 at 06:22 PM.
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01-07-2016, 06:27 PM
#47
Le Mans Master
DRIVER MOD IS HUGE WITH M6... Average person can Drive an AUTO fast.
ROBZ is way better than most with a manual... a good driver can make up .5 seconds.
The trick with the manual is LEAVING the LINE... 60ft makes the difference...
Which comes to other factors like tires and traction on top of the Driver... Even ROBZ on a bad track with bad tires will look bad.
ROBZ is way better than most with a manual... a good driver can make up .5 seconds.
The trick with the manual is LEAVING the LINE... 60ft makes the difference...
Which comes to other factors like tires and traction on top of the Driver... Even ROBZ on a bad track with bad tires will look bad.
A big part of this like in all sports lies between the ears. If your head isn't into it park it and watch or help people out with their cars.
01-07-2016, 06:54 PM
#48
Powershifting can/will show gains if:
the track is there
the tire likes it
the suspension likes it.
So basically if you can maintain traction then YES. If you are experiencing a lot of wheelspin on the shifts that you can feel while going down the track then it makes sense that powershifting is going to slow you down.
The best way to tell is to log passes and see what happens with and without powershifting.
A gmeter can be a great tool to dial in shiftpoints and/ or whether to powershift or not and in which gear.
My advice on this is to get really consistent at speed shifting so you know what your car runs and are very comfortable being aggressive on the strip.
Get a shiftlight and see what's the best rpm for best et/mph. With these cars it will most often be how high you want to rev it without hitting the limiter.
Since powershifting is hard on parts then only do so when the air is good and you are having a good day, and limit the amount of times you do.
The trick here is that it's hard just to powershift one pass then not another so my advice is to practice in the garage and a few days before you plan on shifting that way so you do so with conviction otherwise it wont be worth it.
If you have your limiter set on 6900 and you normally speed shift at 6700 then you may need to lower the shift light to 6600 when powershifting.
If your car makes a lot of torque and you don't have the perfect tires it make run best powershifting the 2-3 and 3-4. You have to experiment with it and like I said be mentally prepared to do so. A good time to do your final simulation and visualization is right after the burnout before you stage if you are at a rental or even T&T.
So, in summary there is et and mph to be had but everything has to be right including track conditions, the cars tire and suspension, and most importantly the drivers state of mind.
the track is there
the tire likes it
the suspension likes it.
So basically if you can maintain traction then YES. If you are experiencing a lot of wheelspin on the shifts that you can feel while going down the track then it makes sense that powershifting is going to slow you down.
The best way to tell is to log passes and see what happens with and without powershifting.
A gmeter can be a great tool to dial in shiftpoints and/ or whether to powershift or not and in which gear.
My advice on this is to get really consistent at speed shifting so you know what your car runs and are very comfortable being aggressive on the strip.
Get a shiftlight and see what's the best rpm for best et/mph. With these cars it will most often be how high you want to rev it without hitting the limiter.
Since powershifting is hard on parts then only do so when the air is good and you are having a good day, and limit the amount of times you do.
The trick here is that it's hard just to powershift one pass then not another so my advice is to practice in the garage and a few days before you plan on shifting that way so you do so with conviction otherwise it wont be worth it.
If you have your limiter set on 6900 and you normally speed shift at 6700 then you may need to lower the shift light to 6600 when powershifting.
If your car makes a lot of torque and you don't have the perfect tires it make run best powershifting the 2-3 and 3-4. You have to experiment with it and like I said be mentally prepared to do so. A good time to do your final simulation and visualization is right after the burnout before you stage if you are at a rental or even T&T.
So, in summary there is et and mph to be had but everything has to be right including track conditions, the cars tire and suspension, and most importantly the drivers state of mind.
Thanks for the advice. If your running stock street tires say 305/35/19's what would you lower the air pressure to get the best traction. I'm not ready for D/R's.
01-08-2016, 01:19 PM
#49
Le Mans Master
I'd look up Ranger acceleration/drag racing tips in the c5Z or c6Z section. I'm not a fan of street tires on the drag strip with a manual for many reasons. I wouldn't powershift with street tires especially if you are making a bit more than stock hp. Some sort of burnout is necessary at the strip IMO even with street tires. Be safe and do some searching.