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Mantic single install question
Im debating whether or not to do this install myself. Ive got a few concerns though that makes me wonder if this is really just remove old clutch, bolt new one on job.
Since the Mantic single comes with pressure plate, flywheel and disc, do I need to have it balanced to match the old clutch I take out? I just recently came across a thread here mentioning shimming the slave cylinder or something of that sort. Will I be needing to shim anything if I use the Mantic clutch kit and GM slave? Ill probably not be doing this install if there is going to be any sort of shimming involved. I dont know what it is but that seems intimidating. |
Originally Posted by ascastil
(Post 1588311370)
Im debating whether or not to do this install myself. Ive got a few concerns though that makes me wonder if this is really just remove old clutch, bolt new one on job.
Since the Mantic single comes with pressure plate, flywheel and disc, do I need to have it balanced to match the old clutch I take out? I just recently came across a thread here mentioning shimming the slave cylinder or something of that sort. Will I be needing to shim anything if I use the Mantic clutch kit and GM slave? Ill probably not be doing this install if there is going to be any sort of shimming involved. I dont know what it is but that seems intimidating. There are people out there that had issues with GM's "hot balancing" after a clutch install. You may want to research that and see where you stand...I couldn't give you details as I never really looked into it.:thumbs: |
Would recommend measuring your clutch geometry before putting it back together (Google clutch slave shimming for some DIY's on how to measure).
Dont want to have to pull the trans twice for the same clutch swap,,,, measure |
The decision on whether you do it yourself really depends on how much you value your time. To give you an idea, disassembly to the stage that I could pull the clutch/PP/FW out took me ~5 hours on jack stands working solo. That includes having to unbolt my headers to get access to the bellhousing bolts. First time taking apart the C5 but I've done multiple clutch jobs on different cars before. I'd estimate reassembly at about 8 hours maybe, so I'd estimate ~13 hours of actual wrenching on the car to R/R the clutch (including changing rear main seal and pilot bearing). There's a lot of "while you're there" jobs that add to that though like taking apart the torque tube to inspect the bearings, replacing the differential seals, fixing transmission leaks if you've got any, etc.
If you can do the work to R/R the clutch, the shimming measurements shouldn't be a problem. The write ups sound a bit confusing but you're essentially just using a caliper to take 2 measurements, then subtracting the numbers. If you're within a certain spec you don't need to shim and if you aren't then you do. Takes 5 minutes. As for match balancing, I think that depends on if the old flywheel has external weights in from when GM "hot balanced" the car. If it doesn't, you should be able to simply pop in the new setup (assuming it's zero balanced as it should be). |
Sorry I missed this thread, you DO NOT need to rebalance the clutch assembly, they come zero balanced. The depth is also exactly to stock specs, we have never had to do anything other then simply install the clutch just as stock would be installed.
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If you think shimming is your biggest hurdle on a DIY clutch replacement; maybe it'd be better to hire it done.
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Originally Posted by DOUG @ ECS
(Post 1588390089)
Sorry I missed this thread, you DO NOT need to rebalance the clutch assembly,
This was not his question. He asked about match balancing to the original unit assembly. Some are zero balanced, some are not. Please tell me you understand the purpose of GM's "hot balance". they come zero balanced. true indeed, but not the issue. Some factory FW/PP assemblies are not zero balanced, on purpose. This is easily proven. The depth is also exactly to stock specs, we have never had to do anything other then simply install the clutch just as stock would be installed. |
Originally Posted by zeevette
(Post 1588391027)
If you think shimming is your biggest hurdle on a DIY clutch replacement; maybe it'd be better to hire it done.
Originally Posted by thbwlZ
(Post 1588392404)
What are the balance tolerances of the individual flywheels and pressure plates of these Mantic units? They are not "perfectly zero" and are made to within some balance tolerance.
I'm simply here to try and help others with an install that I can guaranty we have done substantially more of then anyone else being that we sell and install more Mantic clutches then all the other dealers combined. If you're simply trying to argue with me, you can find out those facts on your own. OP, feel free to contact me with any questions you have. :thumbs: |
Originally Posted by DOUG @ ECS
(Post 1588392591)
I have never shimmed a Mantic clutch ever, although I agree a clutch is a tough DIY job.
I'm simply here to try and help others with an install that I can guaranty we have done substantially more of then anyone else being that we sell and install more Mantic clutches then all the other dealers combined. I certainly appreciate your wanting to help by offering solid advice based on your experience and experience with these Mantic clutches. ECS is a premier shop and Mantic clutches appear to be great products. I would assume that you would want to be as accurate with your advice with respect to balance. If you're simply trying to argue with me, you can find out those facts on your own. I have no desire to argue with you. I'm not sure where that came from. I just asked if you happen to know the balance tolerances of the Mantic units. If they are to the same tolerances as the factory pieces, that is one thing. But factory pieces are bolted to the engine and the entire engine assembly is hot balanced, down to a finer level than normal. The as-delivered balance tolerances of the factory pieces take this into account. You are suggesting that the Mantic is fine "right out of the box". So I asked if you happen to know those tolerances, upon which you based your reply. Do you contend that a zero balanced clutch assembly is always the best approach when replacing a clutch? Because LSx engines are internally balanced? I really feel this is the focus of the misunderstanding of the whole "hot balance" issue. This is not an engine balance issue, it is a total system NVH issue. Hopefully you will answer without thinking I am being argumentative. OP, feel free to contact me with any questions you have. :thumbs: |
Im starting Tuesday night. Ive pulled the motor and tranny from an Fbody with barely any hand tools and a hoist, jack stands and cinder blocks years ago. Ive got A LOT of tools now, an air compressor, and a garage. I think Im more lazy and trying to find excuses not to do it. I ordered a clutch alignment tool, pilot bearing, and Walbro 450 yesterday. Ill go get a motorcycle jack this weekend. Its on, Im doing the damn clutch.
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If you post a general area where you're at, you might be able to find a forum member who has done this to give you a hand.
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Well I did it. I got the cradle dropped and pulled out the old clutch and pilot bearing. I still need to put all the new parts on. It wasnt all that bad, plus I learned something. Im glad I chose to do it.
Gonna have to do some reading up on removing the tank to put in a Walbro 450 fuel pump I got. Figured Id throw one in while I have it all apart. https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...d78faa792d.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...fd6f668dff.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...0236553004.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...e1e03f16ac.jpg The factory clutch did not like the supercharger. |
Nice job! Looks real familiar, mines apart in the garage for the same thing. Let us know how the mantic install goes, I'm about to pull the trigger on one. Would love to hear some feedback when you get it together.
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At last, a story with a happy ending, I trust.
I had to pay to install my clutch, I shelled out for 10 hours of labor, and probably missed a whole lot of personal growth in overcoming unexpected problems and a better cussing vocabulary. my only other clutch job was a much simpler proposition, and I didn't feel like taking the possible rap for screwing up my newly purchased corvette. I believe the stick shift convertibles were more elaborately balanced so I sprung for a clutch balance job. I don't regret the money spent, just feel badly that I spent it only because I couldn't find a better understanding to get beyond better safe than sorry. |
Anyone know how to remove the spring and bearing from the slave? Id like to measure the new one to make sure no shims are needed, just to be safe ya know.
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Originally Posted by strand rider
(Post 1588574824)
At last, a story with a happy ending, I trust.
I had to pay to install my clutch, I shelled out for 10 hours of labor, and probably missed a whole lot of personal growth in overcoming unexpected problems and a better cussing vocabulary. my only other clutch job was a much simpler proposition, and I didn't feel like taking the possible rap for screwing up my newly purchased corvette. I believe the stick shift convertibles were more elaborately balanced so I sprung for a clutch balance job. I don't regret the money spent, just feel badly that I spent it only because I couldn't find a better understanding to get beyond better safe than sorry. OP, do yourself a favor and look at the perimeter through holes on you factory flywheel, check to see if you have any balance weights in any of them. |
Originally Posted by thbwlZ
(Post 1588576191)
Once again, ALL the manual transmission vettes were more elaborately balanced, NOT just the convertibles.
OP, do yourself a favor and look at the perimeter through holes on you factory flywheel, check to see if you have any balance weights in any of them. |
For anyone familiar with this clutch, there is 3 dowel pins that need to go into the flywheel but they dont go in easy. Are they supposed to be hammered into it? Does it matter which end of the dowel goes into the flywheel?
It seems they dont slide into the pressure plate very easy either........ Nevermind, I got it. |
Originally Posted by ascastil
(Post 1588576433)
For anyone familiar with this clutch, there is 3 dowel pins that need to go into the flywheel but they dont go in easy. Are they supposed to be hammered into it? Does it matter which end of the dowel goes into the flywheel?
It seems they dont slide into the pressure plate very easy either........ Nevermind, I got it. |
I was just hesitant to start banging the pins into the flywheel. I gently tapped them till they were snug.
Pressure plate holes the pins slide onto just needed a little paint cleaned out and everything slid together fine |
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