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-   -   1977 C3 longtube headers (https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c3-tech-performance/4181849-1977-c3-longtube-headers.html)

OldCarBum 08-29-2018 10:50 PM

I'm not going to start an argument and I'm not claiming to be right, however Sanderson short tube headers were recommended to me by the owner of a speed shop who has been building racing engines for over 50 years. His dyno results showed that short tube headers do produce more torque and horsepower up to 3500 rpm, they equal out from 3500-5000 rpm and then long tube header perform better above 5000 rpm.
I went to Sanderson's website where they tested short tube and long tube headers on the same motors and on the same dyno.
Their dyno test results showed the same results.
I was skeptical, so I called Hedman and Hooker, twice and talked with different techs.
Their techs agreed with Sandersons results and even stated that scavenging of the exhaust gases from the cylinder head was equal for both short and long tube headers and the scavenging is a result of having individual tubes of the header itself and has nothing to do with placement of the collector or length of the tubes.
They said the length of the tubes to the collector is what dictates what rpm range torque and horsepower are made.
The Hooker techs recommended the short tube headers for my Corvette because I was concerned about ground to collector clearances and said I would probably be happier with the short tube headers on the street where my rpm will rarely be over 5000.
Again, this is what three different header manufactures told me, I'm not any type of expert and it isn't even my opinion.
I bought the Sanderson short tube headers because of what my research revealed, that their headers have 3/8" flanges, 1 7/8" primary tubes, 3" collectors, 16ga mild steel and are aluminum ceramic coated inside and out. They also gauanteed fitment with my borgesen steering box on my 73 big block.

NewbVetteGuy 08-29-2018 10:53 PM


Originally Posted by Novusuhu (Post 1597886418)
Just found out that the headers from the link won't fit Corvettes in general.
What about Flowtech? https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/big-31106flt
I couldn't find Dynomax headers on Jegs or Summit... Also not on Ebay. Are they still making headers?

I have the flowtech 31106flts on my 79; they fit perfectly even with a rack and pinion conversion. They are made of non-stainless steel and the coating isn’t great; I didn’t know to change the ignition timing and carb tuning and the coating cooked off and they started rusting within weeks. Like I said, do a tuneup after installing.


Adam

NewbVetteGuy 08-29-2018 11:22 PM


Originally Posted by OldCarBum (Post 1597889193)
I'm not going to start an argument and I'm not claiming to be right, however Sanderson short tube headers were recommended to me by the owner of a speed shop who has been building racing engines for over 50 years. His dyno results showed that short tube headers do produce more torque and horsepower up to 3500 rpm, they equal out from 3500-5000 rpm and then long tube header perform better above 5000 rpm.
I went to Sanderson's website where they tested short tube and long tube headers on the same motors and on the same dyno.
Their dyno test results showed the same results.
I was skeptical, so I called Hedman and Hooker, twice and talked with different techs.
Their techs agreed with Sandersons results and even stated that scavenging of the exhaust gases from the cylinder head was equal for both short and long tube headers and the scavenging is a result of having individual tubes of the header itself and has nothing to do with placement of the collector or length of the tubes.
They said the length of the tubes to the collector is what dictates what rpm range torque and horsepower are made.
The Hooker techs recommended the short tube headers for my Corvette because I was concerned about ground to collector clearances and said I would probably be happier with the short tube headers on the street where my rpm will rarely be over 5000.
Again, this is what three different header manufactures told me, I'm not any type of expert and it isn't even my opinion.
I bought the Sanderson short tube headers because of what my research revealed, that their headers have 3/8" flanges, 1 7/8" primary tubes, 3" collectors, 16ga mild steel and are aluminum ceramic coated inside and out. They also gauanteed fitment with my borgesen steering box on my 73 big block.

The principles and even math by which scavenging via wave tuning works is well known and proven; it’s good enough for professional race teams. The primary diameter and length are most important; secondary length next.

The pressure waves travel at the speed of sound adjusted for temperature, then reflect back at a major volume change back the other way to the exhaust valve; the Length determines how many times, the negative pressure waves provide immense suction that evacuated residual exhaust gasses in the cylinder and at overlap can provide suction to accelerate the incoming intake air and increase VE, resulting in more torque. The timing just doesn’t work with short primary lengths, hence long tube, tuned length headers providing more torque.

Shorty headers > rams horn manifolds
long headers > shorty headers on torque


Dyno headers have long straig sections immediately off of the head; the long, straight length helps rapidly evacuate the exhaust gasses and pull it far away from the head (high velocity and helps minimize reversion); “tight tuck” headers are the opposite of dyno and race headers in this regard (probably not a perf improvement).


Adam



Novusuhu 08-30-2018 08:43 AM


Originally Posted by NewbVetteGuy (Post 1597889218)
I have the flowtech 31106flts on my 79; they fit perfectly even with a rack and pinion conversion. They are made of non-stainless steel and the coating isn’t great; I didn’t know to change the ignition timing and carb tuning and the coating cooked off and they started rusting within weeks. Like I said, do a tuneup after installing.

Adam

Is there a guide on which ignition timing and carb tuning to apply, when the headers are installed?

Novusuhu 08-30-2018 08:45 AM


Originally Posted by Novusuhu (Post 1597890574)
Is there a guide on which ignition timing and carb tuning to apply, when the headers are installed?

My Vette runs pretty hot (very hot).
I have never re-set the timing or retuned the carb...

Novusuhu 08-30-2018 10:28 AM


Originally Posted by NewbVetteGuy (Post 1597889146)

Flowtech are owned by Holley and are in your budget as coated headers; 1 5/8” primary ID, which is what you want. They’re not equal length and they’re made in China, but they fit with like every C3 accessory. Just tune up your ignition timing and carb after installing so you don’t over heat them and cook off the header coating.

Autozone.com carries them and generally emails 20% off a single item coupons that can be applied to these headers.

Adam

I will certainly re-set timing and tune carb. when changing to headers.
I will go with the flowtechs unless there is another type with the same price and better coating...?

Do you know which parts I will need extra when installing these headers?


jim2527 08-30-2018 03:32 PM


Originally Posted by Novusuhu (Post 1597891235)
I will certainly re-set timing and tune carb. when changing to headers.
I will go with the flowtechs unless there is another type with the same price and better coating...?

Do you know which parts I will need extra when installing these headers?

Gaskets, bolts... Make sure compatible with your spark plugs. Does your '77 have angled or straight plugs? Hooker says their Competition headers will NOT work with angled plug heads... Flowtech ad doesn't say if they do or dont. You'll also need a reducer to connect the headers to your existing pipes. What size pipes are on there now? 2.25"? 2.5"? What about a/c brackets?

3" to 2.5" reducer: https://www.holley.com/products/exha...parts/10004FLT
Install instructions: http://documents.holley.com/11106-3901flt.pdf

jim2527 08-30-2018 03:40 PM

You could cut the flanges off and convert them over the 'ball style...

https://www.summitracing.com/oh/sear...aillocation=oh

Novusuhu 08-31-2018 03:41 AM


Originally Posted by jim2527 (Post 1597893490)
Gaskets, bolts... Make sure compatible with your spark plugs. Does your '77 have angled or straight plugs? Hooker says their Competition headers will NOT work with angled plug heads... Flowtech ad doesn't say if they do or dont. You'll also need a reducer to connect the headers to your existing pipes. What size pipes are on there now? 2.25"? 2.5"? What about a/c brackets?

3" to 2.5" reducer: https://www.holley.com/products/exha...parts/10004FLT
Install instructions: http://documents.holley.com/11106-3901flt.pdf

I got straight plugs; 2,5" exhaust pipes; and air conditioning (not in working condition).


Novusuhu 08-31-2018 11:50 AM

In a review on summit, someone says that these headers won't give 'an oldschool rumble sound'.

I use cherry bombs right know (which is just a little 'quieter' than straight pipes).
I like a very loud and agressive sound.

Won't these headers give me that sound?

I thought GM used the iron manifolds to cut costs and make the exaust quieter?

Steve Ference 08-31-2018 12:44 PM


Originally Posted by Novusuhu (Post 1597877081)
Hey everyone

I thought the original exhaust would hold up a little longer but no...Yesterday my exhaust broke apart because of rust (it was completely rotten).
So now that I'm taking off the exhaust pipes, I'm thinking of finally going for a true dual with H-pipe.

But first things first ofcourse and that are longtube headers!
- My budget is between 250 $ and 350 $.
- I want a set that will fit in with no problems.
- My engine is an original L48 (I'll only install a Performer intake that I have laying around upcoming winter). So I understand that the primaries may not be to big?
- I'm just a street driver, so ground clearence is important.
- I don't care about the brand. They just have to be good price/quality.

- I would prefere a ceramic coating on the inside and outside (Quality coating!). I have read about ceramic coated headers, and it seems that the factory coating is only on the outside... Is that true?
Because of that I'm thinking of buying a steel set and let a shop in Belgium put a ceramic coating on them. I may even go stainless if it is possible to put a ceramic coating on it that holds up...?.


What do you think?
Sorry guys, I know that these are a lot of questions, but understand that I'm from Europe and I want to buy a product that has a guaranteed fit and is of good quality (Headers+shipping+import tax are expensive!).


http://xs-power.com/chevrolet-headers-4.htm



Buy THESE, "direct" from this website, not Ebay or Amazon!!

These are SUPERB headers, and they will ship them at the BEST price EVER.

The way they shipped them to me I didn't have to pay a penny of import duty!!

HeadsU.P. 08-31-2018 05:47 PM

H-m-m-m-m-m-. Two inch primaries? Makes it that much harder to get at the plugs & header bolts. Over-kill on a SBC.
And four inch collector may have ground clearance issues on your C3.
Those are NASCAR pipes. Full throttle all day long.

jim2527 08-31-2018 05:52 PM


Originally Posted by Novusuhu (Post 1597898757)
In a review on summit, someone says that these headers won't give 'an oldschool rumble sound'.

I use cherry bombs right know (which is just a little 'quieter' than straight pipes).
I like a very loud and agressive sound.

Won't these headers give me that sound?

I thought GM used the iron manifolds to cut costs and make the exaust quieter?

All headers are loud. Rumble and tone are more from the cam....

NewbVetteGuy 08-31-2018 06:12 PM

If money were no object, I'd recommend the coated Stan's TriYs, to 95% of C3s with 350s @ 6,000 RPM and under. But they're about $1,000 so....

And I'd want mine with O2 sensors bungs and vacuum evac tubes welded in so I'd probably be at custom header price points... ;-(

Champagne taste, beer budget; it's a curse!

http://www.stans-headers.com/tri_y.htm


Adam

HeadsU.P. 08-31-2018 07:13 PM

Make that 94%. Not interested in Tri anything. Basically you have four tubes into two tubes. You loose the full scavenging effect.
Maybe twice as good as manifolds. But only half as good as full tube.

Novusuhu 09-01-2018 09:57 AM


Originally Posted by jim2527 (Post 1597893490)
Gaskets, bolts... Make sure compatible with your spark plugs. Does your '77 have angled or straight plugs? Hooker says their Competition headers will NOT work with angled plug heads... Flowtech ad doesn't say if they do or dont. You'll also need a reducer to connect the headers to your existing pipes. What size pipes are on there now? 2.25"? 2.5"? What about a/c brackets?

3" to 2.5" reducer: https://www.holley.com/products/exha...parts/10004FLT
Install instructions: http://documents.holley.com/11106-3901flt.pdf

I did some further research on the forum, and it seems that the flowtech headers will fit straight plugs.
I don't know about A/C brackets...

Novusuhu 09-01-2018 10:03 AM


Originally Posted by croaker (Post 1597882018)

Do you know if the colector flanges are movable or are they welded in place?

Novusuhu 09-01-2018 10:43 AM


Originally Posted by HeadsU.P. (Post 1597901656)
Make that 94%. Not interested in Tri anything. Basically you have four tubes into two tubes. You loose the full scavenging effect.
Maybe twice as good as manifolds. But only half as good as full tube.

Are the gaskets that are included good enough, or do I have to buy other ones, to prevent leaks?

Novusuhu 09-01-2018 10:49 AM


Originally Posted by croaker (Post 1597881983)
I went with Flowtechs from Summit easy fit not to low. I'm happy

What brackets and gaskets did you use?

Steve Ference 09-01-2018 12:33 PM


Originally Posted by HeadsU.P. (Post 1597901172)
H-m-m-m-m-m-. Two inch primaries? Makes it that much harder to get at the plugs & header bolts. Over-kill on a SBC.
And four inch collector may have ground clearance issues on your C3.
Those are NASCAR pipes. Full throttle all day long.

Ok, compared to the headers in post #15, the XS headers fit like a dream.

The XS headers are ACTUALLY 1 7/8" primary, 3" collector, NO, ZERO, ZILCH problems with fit or plug install.

Overkill? NASCAR pipes? Maybe, maybe not, however you do your own thing!


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