C8 Corvette Zora analysis
 

YOUR THOUGHTS

C8 CORVETTE ZORA ANALYSIS

1. Reveal Logic
2. Nomenclature Logic
3. Pricing Logic
4. Bowling Green Plant size and space utilization Logic
5. Ownership Preference Logic
6. FE vs ME Model configuration Logic

1. Reveal Logic

1. When the ME price is finally revealed, it will be the indication of where GM has positioned the car relative to the current and future FE Corvette.
2. They will reveal the ZORA first and gauge the buy in and interest on the ME platform.
3. After the delayed time frame, they will reveal the C8 FE with new body work, interior, DCT/Auto/Manual transmissions, new front fascia with enhanced cooling.
4. This delay time frame could be as short as 6 months or as long as 2 years depending upon the initial interest of the ME.

2. Nomenclature Logic

1. The Corvette nomenclature (science of naming) will be a big determining indicator of whether they build both C8 FE and ME.
2. GM should never use the Stingray, Grand Sport, Z06, and ZR1 model names on the ME as those were developed during FE seven generation time span.
3. GM should develop an entirely new nomenclature for this entirely new ME configuration.
4. The C8 generation is based on an entirely new shared design of car that is upgraded with the latest tech for both FE and ME configurations.
5. The C8 generation is also a time based change.

3. Pricing Logic

1. There should be a hierarchy in the C8 generation FE and ME price bandwidth.
2. FE price bandwidth 62k - 160k with a lower starting base price to pacify the existing market
3. ME price bandwidth 85k - 200k with a higher starting price to allow a up market higher end model
4. ME Cadillac GT price bandwidth 95k - 170k
5. FE Corvette SUV price bandwidth 48k - 90k Potential new model

4. Bowling Green Plant size and space utilization Logic

1. They have tripled the Bowling Green plant sq. footage.
2. The new paint system is on the #1 basement level of the four level 460’ x 1,000’ new main building.
3. There is the additional new 369,000 sq. ft. manifold building which connects the old plant to the new main building.
4. There is now approximately 3,132,000 square feet of Bowling Green plant vs 950,000 SF of the old plant.
5. Logic indicates that more than 1 configuration will be built at the expanded plant.

5. Ownership Preference Logic

1. Some of us are very interested in a ME and have no intensions of getting a FE going forward.
2. Some of us have owned Corvettes and other exotic mid engined cars and can give a different ownership perspective.
3. Those of us that have owned both configurations understand the positive and negative aspects of both.
4. Most on this forum have an allegiance to the Corvette.
5. The ME should be upscale over the FE to expand the Corvette buyer demographic.
6. A Corvette SUV is a potential since the chassis is designed to be built on the skillet system.

6. FE vs ME Model configuration Logic

1. Some of the reasons both FE and ME configurations will continue are below.
2. Having both configurations to satisfy a broader buyer clientele.
3. Most traditional Corvette owners still want a FE as it is still perceived as a more practical car.
4. Transitioning the C7 FE to a C8 FE is far easier to achieve than creating the entirely new C8 ME.
5. The ability to modify a FE is easier to accomplish than a ME.
6. Though the ability to modify Corvettes are increasingly becoming more difficult because of tech advancements.
7. The new ME ZORA is not conducive to modifying as it is far more advanced technically than the FE.
8. The ability to work on and service the car is much easier on a FE because of engine accessibility.
9. A potential ME Cadillac GT version of the ZORA will be upscale with a higher level interior.
10. Both C8 FE and ME configurations will be both left hand or right hand drive to expand into the British Commonwealth countries worldwide.
11. C8 FE Stingray —— Soft Top Convertible/Coupe - DCT/Manual Transmissions
12. C8 FE Grand Sport- Soft Top Convertible/Coupe - DCT/Manual Transmissions
13. C8 FE Z06 ———— Soft Top Convertible/Coupe - DCT/Manual Transmissions
14. C8 FE ZR1 ———— Soft Top Convertible/Coupe - DCT/Manual Transmissions
15. C8 ME ZORA ———- Folding Hard Top Convertible/Coupe - DCT Transmission
16. C8 ME ZORA R —- Folding Hard Top Convertible/Coupe - DCT Transmission
17. C8 ME ZORA RX —- Folding Hard Top Convertible/Coupe - DCT Transmission
18. C8 ME ZORA E Ray - Folding Hard Top Convertible/Coupe - DCT Transmission
19. C8 FE SUV

When we see a C8 FE camo mule running around then I’d say it’s a couple years out. Until that time, then would say FEs are done.

I’m simply waiting for the 8th generation Corvette to eventually arrive at my dealership...
It seems to be that car that we saw in Times Square ,a couple of weeks ago.(There was a red 8 on the car to signify it’s the 8th generation )

I don’t think it’s more complicated then that.

how do you guys know ,we haven't seen the FE c8 already,,just in c7 bodys?

Because of what we saw in New York ....The red 8 on the car ,confirmed that’s what the next Corvette is...for now.

Pietro c7,
read the nomenclature logic.

FE? There is no FE therefore the logic is flawed.

You don't know that and Mary Barra or GM hasn't indicated such. She only indicated that the C7 generation was going to end in July. That does not preclude GM from having a C8 FE ready to go after the reveal of the C8 ME in a determined time frame. Remember, the C8 term means it is only a time based generational change. Read the above #1 post.

I did ,it’s very well written and thought out skank,
nice job.

Everything still seems to be pointing to GM funneling all the future buyers to one mid engine model for now...
Its probably a good decision,many are expecting tremendous demand...including myself.

Do you really think GM has the cash to do both a new ME C8 and also a new FE C8? And make money on it?

I did hear rumors long ago that Corvette was going to be a 'brand', but it just doesn't seem to be that there would be enough buyers.

Could be wrong, but I highly doubt that GM is going to make Corvette a brand, and I very much doubt they'd do two different cars.

I did. It has nothing to do with logic and everything to do with opinion, again. We really needed yet another thread on this.

Thoughts are, not C8 corvette zora analysis - speculation, until a later date.

What I read in post #1 was, to me, 99% opinion.

As are the posts that claim as fact that the C8 is ONLY a mid engine car, etc.

GM has been using staged introductions for quite a while now.

Remember the C5.....

1997--------coupe introduced
1998--------convertible added.
1999---------Billy Bob coupe added
2001--------Z06 added

How about the C6

2005------coupe and convertible introduced
2006 -----Z06 added
2009------ZR1 added
2010------GS added
2013------427 convertible added.

C7--------same as C5 and C6

C8-------different variations added each year or two during it's generational cycle. A FE could be one of those variations, to expand the circle of perspective buyers. Every one of the C5, C6 and C7's additions were to expand the circle of perspective buyers, and to hell with economies of scale. If economies of scale was so damn important, GM would lump every variation of the Corvette into one model, one trim, one color, etc and ONLY offer that one single car. But-------- to expand their circle of perspective buyers, they offer many variations and price them accordingly.

At this point, everything we know(or think we know) about the C8 is 99% opinion.

The new plant has over 2,000,000 more sq ft than the old plant for a total of approximately 3,132,000 sq ft. The capital expenditure of that expansion has been indicated as close to a billion dollars. So yes, I do think they have the cash to do 2 or 3 models. They didn't triple the size of the plant to build just one model.

You lost me at para 2.a. You say, "the Corvette nomenclature (science of naming) will be a big determining indicator of whether they build both C8 FE and ME" however, in 1.a you have already made the assumption a C8 FE WILL be built. Which one is it? Your logic isn't very logical.

Also, when they installed the new paint system in the new building addition, they freed up space in the old building that housed the old paint system, Same with the Performance Build Center. I wonder what they are going to do with that space in the old building, now that it's empty. Maybe build something other than a mid engine Corvette?

Thoughts? I'm impressed you listened to me pointing out there was only a single 28000 sq ft chamber under the paint shop, and cut your building size appropriately :thumbs:

Whole lot of speculation and feigned intelligence from a guy who can't spell Z06 properly

Hypothetically, what if GM were to name the ME a Stingray and not a Zora? That to me would indicate they are using the traditional FE names and that would mean any possible future FE going forward could not use it's original names. I don't think that will happen. I see absolutely no reason for GM to use the FE nomenclature on a entirely new ME configuration.

Where??

The leaked interior shots already showed a stingray emblem.

Joe, I've always thought that too!

My thoughts in bold

That's true, but some people that have seen the latest version of the interior have said thats not the case. I do hope that GM starts to clarify the naming of this car, as it will help clear up a lot of questions. Maybe this weekend at the Bash!

paragraph 2B is the first, and then you continue it

its a zero, not an oh. Any Corvette fan with room temperature IQ would know that

This is not a production issue.... GM has shown they can build 40,000 Corvettes a year... so why are they only building 20,000? Lazy Union employees?
,
The 2 seat sports car market is demand constrained, not production constrained.... basically, US sales are about 150,000ish per year... Corvette, Porsche, Miata, Jag, Ferrari, Lambo/Audi, BMW... etc.

External issues may move this +/- 10-15%, but its not alot because this market is lifestyle-constrained, not price driven... every brand has it's "space" Corvette's space is $60-90K and about 35,000/yr. My guess (and it is a guess), is by launching 2 models they will sell 15,000 of each... not a great marketing strategy.

K.I.T.T. You are my hero. Seriously, your input on this forum is the best there is. PERIOD !!!!!

Stopped reading there.

You are correct that is spelled Letter Z, Number 0, and Number 6. But everybody pronounces it ZO6. For you though I'll go and change it as I want to be correct with the Corvette World.:cheers:

The consistent points that I see the anti FE crowd pointing to, fail the address details that need answered:

1. Why increase the plant size so extensively to build the same volume?

2. Why do a tax deal in Bowling Green that increases jobs by 270 (850-900 current)

3. Why did the "re-tool" happen in the middle of C7 construction, vs the end like all previous generations (Last C6 built, workers furloughed, C7 retooling happens, then workers return/train/build pre-production C7's, then C7 production starts.)?

4. Currently the plant is building C7's AND is ALSO building pre-production C8's simultaneously, this is an appears to be fact. Why break protocol on how they went from c4>C5, C5>C6 and C6>C7? There was a mid C7 pause, and then another post C7 pause....that's one too many for some reason.

5. Why have the Bowling Green investment dollar news releases been timed to skew the facts? Most believe the investment into the plant was approx 450mil for the "paint shop". The fact is, the TRUE investment into the plant was nearly double that, at over 730 million. This was done in multiple phases and the news releases were timed to make it seem like all in one. For reference, the C6>C7 retool budget was 110mil, the C7 to C8 retool budget...ready...260mil. Another relevant comparison is Mary Barra said to retool a plant in Pa was around 100mil, and Ford to retool a Focus plant to build Broncos (entirely different in every way, shape/form, was just under 400mil. GM just dropped HUGE money into Bowling Green...to sell the same 40k cars? The entire budget for C7 initially was like 250m

6. Why did the retool budget cost over double? Why retool the C7 line only to shut it down again in 1.5yrs?


To be fair to myself, the counter argument could be that the C7 line shut down solely to implement the paint shop and engine build center, then potentially rearrange, etc. The workers return, retrain, and the C7 line then integrates the new changes. This allows the various non movable facets of the facility to be "used" and tested, so it doesn't overly risk C8's release (wouldn't want to test a new chassis and new paint process all in one)

There also would be dual shutdowns...and it's known the C7 will end in Sept, and we don't officially know the C8 production start date (but it appears Dec will be the month, meaning the C8 line is THERE already).

There are too many pattern variations, financial anomalies and difference versus all other years, to just build a car with the engine in a different spot. SOMETHING is coming...

Kitt, you just nailed it!

And that right there Ladies and Gentlemen is one of the absolute top posts in the entire C8 section.

Since we are in the business of limitless speculation, I propose that the BG expansion was not because GM management though they could triple Corvette sales, but developing a test-bed for next-generation production methods... efficiently producing low demand niche models with relatively short product lives.


The biggest cost (and risk) in manufacturing is design and tooling costs... all this money gets spent before the first sales dollar comes in. And today, product life cycles are shrinking, market niches proliferating, and engineering becoming more complex. If you cannot hit market windows as they open, you are in big trouble.

To make an IT comparison, in traditional manufacturing, the logic is hard-wired into the production line tooling... great if you are pumping out 1million Impalas a year, but very inflexible.

Modern "platform" design combined with computerized logistics and programmable robotic production allows a new product to move from the designers computer to the factory floor much faster. The companies that manage this process well will prosper, laggards will die.

I think the only problem with my entire theory, that I can't deny within myself is:

Every time I think GM is going to do something awesome....they don't...lmao. This forum has talked about the LT5 being a DOHC...didnt happen. Nurburgring times...didn't happen. Z06X in C6 AND C7...didn't happen. All I can determine is, GM was apparently SOLD on the fact that putting 700m bucks into Bowling Green was worth it, and 270 people get jobs out of the deal. If you sell the same 35k-40k cars/yr...well...that doesn't sound like a viable business case to me unless Cadillac is movin in, or Pontiac returns...lol. Who knows...

Kitt, don’t doubt yourself! Corvette is in BG and it is the only thing there! There are those that think Cadillac is coming(and it may) but, frankly, I’m of the mindset that BG is a Corvette plant. There will be a variety of Corvette vehicles! They will eventually have a FE, a ME and potentially a SUV in the future. Corvette IS a brand! It may be hidden within Chevrolet but it is a brand! A strong brand! Expect the unexpected!

Because he agrees with you. What a surprise.

Read and concentrate on K.I.T.T.'s posts. You will learn a lot and possibly even expand your horizon.

Holy crap what is with these FE obsessed people? You would think your questioning their religion.

No, I am going to get a ME ZORA. I also don't want the FE to go away. Corvette like Ferrari will have both configurations to battle Porsche. Why on earth would GM walk away from the best handling front engined sports car in the world and that is a fact. No other front engined sports car can keep up with a Corvette on the track. A C7 ZRI can walk away from a 500k 812 Ferrari Superfast on the track. Think about that....

I always thought it would be nice to have both a FE and ME vette.

I thought the FE would be more traditional, more GT oriented, while the ME would be a higher priced, more track focused version, meant to compete more with the higher end European cars.

However, the hardware on the ME (brakes especially) make it seem as though there will be a relatively inexpensive version of the ME.

If the base ME is going to be similar in price to the C7, then I don't really see room for both versions.

I therefore suspect that only an ME will end up happening.

I can't really speak to the factory space, but from a vehicle perspective it doesn't look like GM is trying to make both an FE and ME version, or if they do it seems they would end up being close in price and competing with each other for the same buyers.

-T

Many are reluctant to eat their well deserved crow...
Come on guys...it’s got to be similar to quail...

But what about the Ferrari 813 Ludicrous Speed. Complete with plaid interior. Can the C7 keep up with that?

-T

I love the logic here. Since Mary Barra did not specifically state that there will not be a FE Corvette in the future then there must be one in the pipeline. Kind of like proving a negative.

Based on on this I think I will wait on the flying Corvette which Mary Barra did not specifically state was not coming, or maybe that steam-powered Corvette that she also did not specifically state was not coming. :toetap:

And there are people who think Elvis didn't die........that WWE is real........that Dr. Dre is a real doctor.....etc. The next Corvette is ME and no amount of hand wringing and prayers for an altered reality is going to change that. So much wasted time on doctrines of "logic." Hilarious. The guys at GM must be busting a gut.

Let...it...go. The FE corvette platform is dead. The future for the Corvette, whether you like it or not, IS the ME platform. /end thread.

"Mary Barra only indicated that the C7 generation was going to end in July."

When did she say this? What I heard was that the "iconic" Z06 paved the way for the new C8 ME, which I took to mean that the Z06 was ending and the LT4 was going into the ME.

I think you should have waited until after the Bash because I believe there may be a surprise reveal there. Certainly the C7 production does not end in July because ZR1s are already scheduled for production in July.

I think the announcement in NYC had to be done to set the stage for the ME in July and generate buzz for its reveal because something else is coming before then. Why else would they do the NYC pre-announcement instead of just doing the ME reveal when they are ready?

Corvette is the strongest brand in the GM line-up, period. No other GM comes close to the prices it sells for and no other vehicle has the brand loyalty of Corvette. GM is not going to kick that away by going solely ME.

No, I'll actually read the same old same old delusional crap I've already read.

IMO if that extra space added to the BG plant is going to be used to produce more than one vehicle (that one being the 8th gen. Corvette that'll be formally introduced 7-18-19) it's probably going to be some upscale hybrid/electric performance oriented CUV. No chance in hell they are going to build two cars in the same plant that compete head to head with one another for the same customers.

Trying to guess what GM is going to do with the factory seems like an exercise in futility. They could do anything including shutting the entire thing down if the ME does not sell as planned. It's not hard to see the logic in that all an C8 FE car achieves is reducing the total sales numbers of the ME car. Utilizing excess factory capacity to net an equal number of sales for Corvette would also be a big mistake for GM. GM building a Porsche SUV fighter makes one hell of a lot more sense than two Corvettes nearly identical in nature other than in the placement of their engines.

What is it with the you guys that can’t accept the evolution of the C7 to the C8? This is a normal generational evolution like C1 to C2, to C3 to.., etc. Its not a couoe to convt, base to Z51, to ZO6, to... transition. GM has never produced two different generational platforms of the Corvette at the same time, and there is neither evidence or logic to suggest that GM can invest in doing two platforms now.

There are always those who won’t accept the generational changes and don’t like the new model, but life goes on.

BGA is not limited to the Corvette and if it has been expanded sufficiently to build two cars, there are plenty of GM cars that would benefit from a state of the art production facility/paint shop, starting with the Caddy CT6.

There is no business case for multiple Corvette models. The Corvette is a Chevrolet. A division of General Motors which already has crossovers, SUVs trucks, and a FE Camaro.

Diminishing C7 sales each year of the generation prove that there is insufficient 2 seat market to support the FE C7 let alone multiple platforms of a Corvette model (not a brand).

The C7 FE dies with a Z06 to be built most likely sometime later this summer. Then, after a model changeover at the plant, production of the ME C8 will consume BGA, sometime this fall, not too far out of line with traditional production start up timing.

You can hold your breath until July 18 if you want to, but that is the day the obituary of the C7 FE will be published

What a surprise. Yet another new skanky thread attempting to give new life to the same stupid pronouncements all over again. After he gets beaten to death in his many previous threads spewing the same nonsense, he just starts a new one futilely hoping for a fresh start. And his few remaining disciples coming running to help.

It's good to see the vast majority of folks have caught on to the delusions or trolling, whichever it is. It looks to me that the C8 section of CF has become a four-person, amateur troll farm.

You're a real comedian Foosh! Your comedy act really livens up the forums. If you can't wrap your head around my logic then read K.I.T.T.'s posts above. He's another highly technical logical guy that you could learn a great deal from.

Yeah, I read post #36. Did you?

And what about that 230+ day supply of FE Corvettes on lots not selling nearly fast enough to indicate significant demand. New stripes, refreshed body panels, not even a few extra HP and a DCT are gonna cut it. In light of current sales trends, GM will only commit to one new 2-seater at a time.

The 2-seat sports car market will only continue to shrink, going forward. It will increasingly become a low-volume, niche product, which the Ferraris of the world can survive for awhile, but that's not GM's game. The ME will just buy the Corvette a little more time because it's new and different for Corvette.

All the new production capacity in the world won't help a company building a car that won't sell in increasing volume after an intro excitement blip. If BGA has a long-term future, it won't be a Corvette/Cadillac/or whatever 2-seater only plant. The modernization can help GM develop and build vehicles that are positioned to sell in larger volumes in the future, but they probably won't be just 2-seat sports cars.

I've long thought that Corvette should be its own brand. Let Chevy dealers continue to sell it, but with more stringent conditions regarding sales expertise, service capability, and customer satisfaction. Let Cadillac dealers in on it as well.

As GM's performance division the Corvette brand would also get the Camaro for a 2+2 GT. Add two CUV/SUV models on longitudinal RWD platforms for a total of four model lines. Done right, the Corvette trucks will each sell more than the C8 and Camaro together.


Imagine the possibilities of a successful Corvette division. Solstice 2.0. EV roadster. Hot hatch GTI killer. Return of the El Camino. ZO6 pickup. Corvette could become the performance standard of the world.

I think the fact is that Corvette could potentially expand the brand, and that likely may be the drive behind it all. We know that Ferrari, Lambo, Jaguar and others are moving toward performance SUV's, so GM will try to move into that space I believe. In addition, the ME and FE can exist much like the 488 and 812 coexist. I think the facts I've laid go unanswered, but instead there is just a flat out denial of possibility. Explain it then; don't call it delusional, debate it.

I have to laugh at times when people in politics, cars, sports...whatever, merely call the opposing side "delusional" or "insane"...why not provide a counter argument based in fact. I don't WANT the FE...I am merely letting the evidence I see, that is unexplained, carve the trail. Like all things...follow the money. 733 million invested into the plant, large space expansion, mid cycle shutdown (which rejects historical routines), 270 new jobs people...for what? Someone just answer the last part; if you aren't building MORE cars...how can you guarantee 270 new jobs? They have to be building something!


So, to all the people saying it's simple: The ME is here, the FE is gone...just answer this: Why have they guaranteed to hire 270 more people and expanded the space drastically? To do what?

Another great post K.I.T.T. Don't worry about Foosh, He's just in a sad state of denial.

I have no reason to be in denial. I don't have the dog you seem to think I have in this fight, as I contemplate my future in a 911 manual when my C7 time plays out. I AM A C7 FAN, which you seem to have completely missed.

In fact, what K.I.T.T. just said is not that far off from what I said above and have been saying over and over and over again for months, which is that a two-platform, two-seat Corvette strategy alone is not viable. But, the expanded Corvette strategy he alludes to would require a realignment of the Chevrolet division, which could well happen at some point in the future, IF Corvette manages to survive enough to graduate into a brand. That will depend entirely upon how well the ME line-up performs. If it underperforms, all bets are off.

Skank, your arguments are an ever moving target. I respond to one thing, then you pivot to something else without even responding to the counterpoints you're challenged with. That is an amateur debating tactic. I have provided more than ample market-based and economic rebuttals to all of your pronouncements before I gave up and had to conclude that delusional or troll were the only explanations for your ramblings. It is impossible to have a rational conversation with you.

I can honestly say that seeing the Corvette brand expand to a dual platform, SUV's or an entire Zora sub-brand would be highly exciting. I'd love to see Corvette itself grow so that it can manage its racing programs, investments, etc. I think the dealer network becomes complicated, but would likely be based upon sales and allocations.

I think the big issue no one is really talking about as well, is the buyer experience when it comes to purchasing a 100k+ optioned mid engine car from your local Chevy dealer that doesn't even offer you a glass of free water when you walk in. The buyer experience has to change...making Corvette a sub-brand requiring high allocation or early allocation dealers meet certain standards would be interesting.

SRT attempted to lay a glimpse into a performance brand, but FCA just wasn't healthy and Viper really went south on them.

All I know is, SOMETHING is happening that we're not aware of. They didn't put 733 million into Bowling Green to bump the price of the Corvette 5k bucks and build the same 35k-40k cars per year, which only requires Bowling Green a 5 day, 8hr per day work week to do. They don't need 270 more employees to do it either. The Performance Build Center already has spoken for 35 of those new employee spots, so that's a hell of a deficit. It isn't enough people to build an entirely different car on an entirely different line...but it's a lot of people to do a lot of extra work, which to me...speaking to a new, innovative and advanced multi use line that saves cost. With the GM VSS strategy, the line architectures have to change in a way we havent' seen before.

SOMETHING is happening in there that will be revealed...that's all there is to it.

Because ME is vastly superior to FE and the Camaro is already 9/10ths the performance of Corvette, with a manual transmission, too at a slightly cheaper price. There is no financial need for an FE Corvette in GM’s lineup and one won’t be produced in the near future, if ever again.

It is also a fallacy to state most Corvette enthusiasts prefer FE, maybe in the 55-75 age group. All the guys I know in my age group (25-35) are big Lamborghini, Ferrari fans and are super psyched for a ME Corvette, who all equate a mid engine setup as a performance characteristic that is unique to only the best sports cars in the world.

The FE brigade. Moving forward blindly without purpose or reason.

I'm not convinced a guarantee to hire means anything at all until those jobs become a reality. What they do with the space is anyone's guess at this point. Building twin Corvette's with different engine placements would be a disaster for the brand. An expansion of the performance lineup for GM does have some logic in it but I also agree that Corvette has enjoyed a niche that GM just cannot seem to duplicate in with products in the sub brands they already own. Cadillac is absolutely floundering trying to compete head to head with Mercedes, Audi and BMW. GM pits Chevrolet directly with GMC branded vehicles while Ford seems to do just fine competing with only one brand in this same space. Buick is another brand trying to find its way with very little differentiation and just like GMC largely scavenging buyers away from the same Chevy branded vehicles.

So what is GM going to do with that space? I really hope it's a better decision than those they are currently making across other parts of their business and one that keeps a two seat Corvette in the marketplace. Currently I have moved away from and have zero interest in any of their other products.

TLDR

The base car is the Stingray and there is an optional Z51 package. There won't be a Z06/GS/ZORA etc. until the following year or two.

You're too lazy to read a thread or even the #1 post, but you'll spew your opinion. Typical of the all ME crowd.

The "ME crowd"? I've had 4 C5s and currently have a Stingray... how am I "the ME crowd". Your post is silly... do you have a day job?

The facts to date show the release model will be the Stingray with the Z51 package. Once I saw you rambling on about releasing the "Zora" first I stopped reading.

Reading comprehension is your friend!

If you don't like reading, at least read posts #25,32,58 and 61. That will wake you up.

or put you to sleep.

:) ok here are my 2 guess of why they extended the plant and why they intend on hiring 270 more people.

1. In case of sink holes forming they should still have some of the plant left to work in.
2. They needed 270 extra employees to deal with the A8 transmission when they are recalled.

What market did Jeep specifically leave behind with a headlight change? There is still no reasonable alternative to the Wrangler, despite generation after generation of changes that would supposedly drive the purists away. Not least of which was going to four doors, which turned out to be an unmitigated success despite the hatred and the prophecies of doom from the old school guys. In fact, Wrangler is the only modern example I can think of a brand manufacturing and selling an old and new platform side by side, with the JK and JL Wrangler, because sales of the old was so good they couldn't finish already submitted orders before the new one went into production.

As to the evolution of the WRX, that did not open the door for those vehicles. Once the hot hatch market took off in America, it took off, it was not due to WRX somehow abandoning its space. It is not unlike the adventure motorcycle market, which for years was pretty much limited to the KLR and BMW until a mass market rush happened from their competitors, and now seemingly everyone offers one because they are the in-demand thing.

As to it being an affordable track car, I think most would find a brand new FE to also be a rather unaffordable track day car. I'd find it hard to believe that many people who track cars under warranty will be fine financially with a FE but burdened by the maintenance costs of a ME.

It is actually really simple: to gain tax breaks. You get tax breaks by promising jobs, which all too frequently never actually materialize after said breaks are given.

Also, to those of us who think the FE is dead, few seem to think that nothing besides a ME will be built in BGA. I have zero issue seeing something else being built there, I have a very hard time seeing it be a FE 2 seat sports car which would only take sales from your ME.

At least we now know where Skanks base C8 pricing comes from, his refusal to believe the FE is dead. If the base C8 ends up being in the low to mid $60k, that means his FE theories have no chance. A few months and counting.

Yep. It is my opinion that FAR more negative flak will be taken over no manual than over it being ME, and even that I don't think will be all that worrysome to Chevy.

The C7 FE Stingray right now as we speak is $56,995.00 barebones with absolutely zero options. Get on the www.chevrolet.com and do a Build and Price. Every year that number goes up approximately $1,000.00 at a minimum. Where do you think a entirely new ME which is far more sophisticated than a FE will start at in a couple years? I put the C8 FE at 62K on my post #1 above for obvious historical reasons of a slight generational price increase when changing to a new generation of cars.

That's very expensive for a car not even slated for production. In your mind, you'll never be proven wrong, because you'll just keep changing your story.

Really skank, you have questions about nomenclature. There is literally spy photos of the interior showing the Stingray branding.

You live in some twisted form of reality.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...c37025534a.jpg

I think the FE will be more of a value leader to boost sales. Corvette will add a lot of content while holding the line on pricing in order to create distance from the ME which will be marketed as the "premium" model. I see the FE under $60k until the market becomes clear. No need to risk a collapse of sales at this point.

And you know this is the interior of the ME how exactly? Do you work at GM?

Oh ok...got it, all the C8 interior spy pics are really of a secret FE C8. :rofl:

I asked a simple question which you cannot answer truthfully. You have no factual basis for your claim so you try to BS instead. Got it.

This entire thread has no factual basis, yet skank keeps on with his crazy reality.

You want to make a bet about the Stingray branding in the C8. How much?

Yeah right, I always love to bet with unknown people on the internet because collecting on bets is so easy!

You've got nothing and you know it.

I see. I guess that explains the 230 day supply of C7s currently sitting on dealer lots and not selling, even when marked down to the mid-$40s.

I'm not that wacko denying spy pics. You weirdos only have a couple more months.

There are escrow services for bets, if you are interested.

No, they'll keep changing their stories and keep coming up with new explanations of what's going to happen next, or why the "new C8 FE" is imminent. Its a game of "whack a mole" with those two.

If Mary Barra doesn't issue a press release specifically quoted as saying, "no more FE Corvette forever," that will be proof to them it's still on the way. Even then, they'd probably spin that into she didn't rule out a front-mid-engine Corvette. Of course, Mary Barra hasn't ruled out a flying Corvette either.

They're both having fun trolling here.

You can tell it is a ME because of the large partition/firewall behind the seats. Go look at the view behind a C7's seats and you will see the huge difference.
https://www.carscoops.com/2019/03/20...will-be-named/

230? Where are you getting 230 from? That was the rumor back in January. There are just over 9000 in dealer inventory with roughly a 137 day supply, according to GMA. And that's including, if I'm not mistaken, the Corvettes in transit to dealers from BGA. http://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/04/...tte-c8-reveal/

They need to maintain 137 days of inventory because the plant will be closed from July to December.

There was a 232 day supply back in January, which is the last time these numbers were released. Even so, 137 days is still a HUGE supply in the auto world. 60-80 or so is normal, anything in the triple digits is time to start looking at ways to move.

And when you are indeed bringing out a new model, or ending an old one, you really don't want to be sitting on a huge supply. That is how people like me end up costing the dealer a few thousand dollars in losses to move a 2017 Focus ST that is still sitting on their lot brand new this March after they ended the Focus last year. Much as some here think otherwise, those leftover FEs are going to take some significant discounts to move when they're parked next to a ME come the end of this year.

Foosh, I'm on the phone with Skank right now and he asked me to post his response to this banter of yours: If Foosh is wrong I expect him to banish himself from the forum for all eternity!

And I expect you to do the same thing.

This from the same person(S) who supported the $169K delusion as fact.... I'm glad at least now 'GM confirmation' is being considered whereas before it was all based on 'logic as fact'. So, that's progress. Although, C&D as well as other outlets who have far more access than you are pointing to a $62K-$65K starting MSRP. Does today's 'logic' (as opposed to the $169K "logic") defy the weight of actual insider sources?

I guess the takeaway is everyone can believe whatever they want, just don't sell it as being more than what it actually is.

If I had the choice to lay $100 and win back either fifty cents on Foosh admitting when he was proven wrong, or win back $10k on skank admitting when he was proven wrong, that fifty cent return looks like a far smarter bet.

Ahhh... Someone mentioned "Proving a negative"... I guess there are many things we don't know for sure / lack confirmation for but happen nonetheless. Take $169K MSRP for example. LoL. Seriously though, there is what is likely (based on previous experience in similar situations) and what we believe will happen based on Schedule 1 substance abuse. I believe that hanging on to a C8 FE falls in the latter category.... based on prior forum experience ($169K)

Sounds exactly like what a person with distorted ego issues would recommend. I'll just do what a normal, healthy, well-balanced person does in such a situation, and simply say, "I was wrong." I don't feel any shame in that, and am comfortable enough in my own skin to do that routinely.

If Skank were to follow his own advice, he'd already be self-banished.

:lolg:We know that the comic comedian Foosh will ban himself for all eternity with his drunken band of merry men tomorrow after the big annoucement

GM has partially completed its goal..
1. To incite and stir up mucho controversy , debate and excitement in the Corvette brand base of its supporters and fans...just reading all the aforementioned and historical comments from months past...it has completed its goal
2. The balance of its goal is to bring this vehicle to market with an exciting quality built attractive vehicle that will create a demand, exceeding its' sales expectations.
Well done GM and I too await the end result!

MECDS (Mid Engine Corvette Derangement Syndrome) I hope you guys hold out for the next 3 months. Be nice to each other. Try and be a bit more like me and....... :D


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...0622e7fae3.jpg

Yet another example of things you claim to know, but are clueless about. Was that funny enough for you?;)

I never doubted your wind tunnel experiance ....seems like you just proved your aerodynamics expertise to everyone else,
That is a lovely functional design that drives the air from both sides,and right through the middle...
for required cooling and drying purposes.

Well done Shaka