Best cam for stock heads? Some new ones out there, would like opinions
Thread Starter
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: St. Louis, MO
St. Jude Donor '08
Best cam for stock heads? Some new ones out there, would like opinions
I've read many threads here for years and did mucho research before I did my C5 H/C, but would like some opinions on cam only - no heads - paying attention to some of the newer cam designs out there.
I don't plan to put on heads and Fast intake ever. I'm at 11.8 @ 118 now in the quarter and I can't go below 11.5 so I don't need much additional power. I realize I will be giving up efficiency if I don't mill the heads but my 10.9 will have to do, and because of that relatively low compression I can't get too crazy with the cam or I'll lose low end torque which will suck for my daily drive. I would say 440 rwhp and 410 rwtq would be a nice goal if possible. I'm looking for a little lope with my cutouts open and I miss that 3500 rush as the cam comes in I had with my H/C C5.
Car is a daily driver, mods listed below, and I drag race monthly and HPDE bi-monthly.
Mind giving me some opinions?
I don't plan to put on heads and Fast intake ever. I'm at 11.8 @ 118 now in the quarter and I can't go below 11.5 so I don't need much additional power. I realize I will be giving up efficiency if I don't mill the heads but my 10.9 will have to do, and because of that relatively low compression I can't get too crazy with the cam or I'll lose low end torque which will suck for my daily drive. I would say 440 rwhp and 410 rwtq would be a nice goal if possible. I'm looking for a little lope with my cutouts open and I miss that 3500 rush as the cam comes in I had with my H/C C5.
Car is a daily driver, mods listed below, and I drag race monthly and HPDE bi-monthly.
Mind giving me some opinions?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,838
Likes: 1
From: Valencia '32 Ford 3 window with 615 HP!!!!
St. Jude Donor '06-'09
Joe,just had my cam that I got from Livernois installed 3 days ago,and it surpassed all my and everyones expectations!!
Give Dan Millen at Livernois a call and tell Him what You want it run like!
Also tell Him George sent You!!
Good luck!
Give Dan Millen at Livernois a call and tell Him what You want it run like!
Also tell Him George sent You!!
Good luck!
Tech Contributor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,094
Likes: 197
From: Colorado Springs, CO
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11
Generally speaking any cam that has a gain with ported heads will have a gain with stockers.
Stay with something that has an advance so the DCR doesnt drop much. The comp cams adjustable timing set can help by allowing an advance and then later if you get heads, you can take the advance back out. That said, I would go with a 228/232 113 xer and dial in a 2 degree advance with the timing set for use with stock heads.
Stay with something that has an advance so the DCR doesnt drop much. The comp cams adjustable timing set can help by allowing an advance and then later if you get heads, you can take the advance back out. That said, I would go with a 228/232 113 xer and dial in a 2 degree advance with the timing set for use with stock heads.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,891
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From: NJ..."the way I saw it, everyone takes a beating sometimes."
Joe G. I have a similar setup as you. Right now my car is at Cartek gettting a set of Kooks, ported TB, UD pulley, and their 2x cam. Cartek has seen a bolt-on car run 11.19 at 123mph with this cam. I figure with my VR and 4:10s, this should be a nice street setup. I spoke with Max and Dave at Cartek and explained what I wanted. I too wasn't looking for too much over 400hp/tq to the wheels. They recommended their 2x cam. I'll let you know in a few days my dyno and driving results.
Specs: 224/228, 113LSA, .590 lift
PS: Cartek recommends changing your valvesprings every 3 years/36K for street use. With the frequent amount of times you will be visiting the track, I think they'll recommend every year. Just another thing to take into consideration.
Specs: 224/228, 113LSA, .590 lift
PS: Cartek recommends changing your valvesprings every 3 years/36K for street use. With the frequent amount of times you will be visiting the track, I think they'll recommend every year. Just another thing to take into consideration.
Instructor
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 162
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From: Atlanta Georgia
I just went through this recently and went with a cam only.
My specs were "secret" from the tuner, but around 230/<600 lift/113 lsa. They said it would still pass emissions and not have any driveability issues. Probably in the medium size range as far as cams go.
Here is a post that I started that may help you or give some ideas. I still have some kinks my tuner needs to work out with my idle, but overall I love the added power and especially the sound.
Here is the link to my post...
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1627771
My specs were "secret" from the tuner, but around 230/<600 lift/113 lsa. They said it would still pass emissions and not have any driveability issues. Probably in the medium size range as far as cams go.
Here is a post that I started that may help you or give some ideas. I still have some kinks my tuner needs to work out with my idle, but overall I love the added power and especially the sound.
Here is the link to my post...
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1627771
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Thread Starter
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 14,950
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From: St. Louis, MO
St. Jude Donor '08
Thanks for the responses guys. Vette18 I'll check your thread too.
I had 112 lsa on my C5, and it was a loping son of a gun. Actually it was too much for daily driving, it used to die in traffic and then be a bear to restart. Made the car a drag to drive and I don't want that this time. I suspect that I can spend additional time and care tuning it now that I've got some experience in tuning and eliminate some of that. It did sound bad *** with Borla Stingers though.
I was thinking something around 115-116 lsa to keep the lope toned down this time.
Any thoughts on that?
I had 112 lsa on my C5, and it was a loping son of a gun. Actually it was too much for daily driving, it used to die in traffic and then be a bear to restart. Made the car a drag to drive and I don't want that this time. I suspect that I can spend additional time and care tuning it now that I've got some experience in tuning and eliminate some of that. It did sound bad *** with Borla Stingers though.
I was thinking something around 115-116 lsa to keep the lope toned down this time.
Any thoughts on that?
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2005
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From: North AL.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,796
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From: Annandale VA
Thanks for the responses guys. Vette18 I'll check your thread too.
I had 112 lsa on my C5, and it was a loping son of a gun. Actually it was too much for daily driving, it used to die in traffic and then be a bear to restart. Made the car a drag to drive and I don't want that this time. I suspect that I can spend additional time and care tuning it now that I've got some experience in tuning and eliminate some of that. It did sound bad *** with Borla Stingers though.
I was thinking something around 115-116 lsa to keep the lope toned down this time.
Any thoughts on that?
I had 112 lsa on my C5, and it was a loping son of a gun. Actually it was too much for daily driving, it used to die in traffic and then be a bear to restart. Made the car a drag to drive and I don't want that this time. I suspect that I can spend additional time and care tuning it now that I've got some experience in tuning and eliminate some of that. It did sound bad *** with Borla Stingers though.
I was thinking something around 115-116 lsa to keep the lope toned down this time.
Any thoughts on that?
For example, I ran a 218/224 cam on a 114 LSA in my previous LS1. Adding the two durations together, then dividing by 2 gives an average duration of 221. Doubling the LSA gives 228. Result is a -7, which gives an excellent idle. It was almost impossible to tell that it had an aftermarket cam in it.
Let's take another example, a 228/232 on a 112 LSA. Average duration is 230, LSA doubled is 224, resulting in a +6. This cam will barely idle at all. Even with a 115 LSA, the result would be 0, which would still result in a rough idle.
You could run a 224/228 (very popular grind) on a 115 LSA, would result in a -4, should give you a very tolerable idle. A 224/224 on a 114 LSA would be about the same, and a 224/224 on a 115 would give you a -6, and a very stock-like idle.
One good thing about the LS2 is that it will idle better than an LS1 with the same exact cam, due to the extra displacement (cubes).
Thread Starter
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: St. Louis, MO
St. Jude Donor '08
The LSA is only one factor that will affect your idle, the other is the duration. There is a formula for determining your overlap and resultant idle quality. Average your duration (add the intake & exhaust duration, divide by 2), then subtract your LSA X 2. The more negative the result, the better your idle.
For example, I ran a 218/224 cam on a 114 LSA in my previous LS1. Adding the two durations together, then dividing by 2 gives an average duration of 221. Doubling the LSA gives 228. Result is a -7, which gives an excellent idle. It was almost impossible to tell that it had an aftermarket cam in it.
Let's take another example, a 228/232 on a 112 LSA. Average duration is 230, LSA doubled is 224, resulting in a +6. This cam will barely idle at all. Even with a 115 LSA, the result would be 0, which would still result in a rough idle.
You could run a 224/228 (very popular grind) on a 115 LSA, would result in a -4, should give you a very tolerable idle. A 224/224 on a 114 LSA would be about the same, and a 224/224 on a 115 would give you a -6, and a very stock-like idle.
One good thing about the LS2 is that it will idle better than an LS1 with the same exact cam, due to the extra displacement (cubes).
For example, I ran a 218/224 cam on a 114 LSA in my previous LS1. Adding the two durations together, then dividing by 2 gives an average duration of 221. Doubling the LSA gives 228. Result is a -7, which gives an excellent idle. It was almost impossible to tell that it had an aftermarket cam in it.
Let's take another example, a 228/232 on a 112 LSA. Average duration is 230, LSA doubled is 224, resulting in a +6. This cam will barely idle at all. Even with a 115 LSA, the result would be 0, which would still result in a rough idle.
You could run a 224/228 (very popular grind) on a 115 LSA, would result in a -4, should give you a very tolerable idle. A 224/224 on a 114 LSA would be about the same, and a 224/224 on a 115 would give you a -6, and a very stock-like idle.
One good thing about the LS2 is that it will idle better than an LS1 with the same exact cam, due to the extra displacement (cubes).
My C5 had 226/226 .585 .585 on a 112, so a +2 under this calculation. My buddy's G5x3 has what, 238/244?? on a 114 so a + 13! It runs like a raped ape though with his 11.4 AFR's, but too much lope for daily driving IHMO.
Thread Starter
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 14,950
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From: St. Louis, MO
St. Jude Donor '08
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 924
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From: Dothan AL
Maybe I can get some help on this cam. Performance shop tells me if I went with a 232/234 594/598 on a 108 LSA will give my car lots of bottom end power.
I just think because of the LSA this cam will be too choppy ? Am I correct ?
I was thinking more in the line of the following 2 cams :
230/240 585/595 114 LSA or 232/234 590/598 112 LSA
I had a 228/232 588/595 114 LSA in my 03 ZO6 and had good power but mostly on top of rpm range, good idle, and sound was good.
Just looking for a little more.
I would appreciate and recommends and ideas.
I just think because of the LSA this cam will be too choppy ? Am I correct ?
I was thinking more in the line of the following 2 cams :
230/240 585/595 114 LSA or 232/234 590/598 112 LSA
I had a 228/232 588/595 114 LSA in my 03 ZO6 and had good power but mostly on top of rpm range, good idle, and sound was good.
Just looking for a little more.
I would appreciate and recommends and ideas.
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,477
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From: Boca Raton, FL
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,328
Likes: 405
The LSA is only one factor that will affect your idle, the other is the duration. There is a formula for determining your overlap and resultant idle quality. Average your duration (add the intake & exhaust duration, divide by 2), then subtract your LSA X 2. The more negative the result, the better your idle.
For example, I ran a 218/224 cam on a 114 LSA in my previous LS1. Adding the two durations together, then dividing by 2 gives an average duration of 221. Doubling the LSA gives 228. Result is a -7, which gives an excellent idle. It was almost impossible to tell that it had an aftermarket cam in it.
Let's take another example, a 228/232 on a 112 LSA. Average duration is 230, LSA doubled is 224, resulting in a +6. This cam will barely idle at all. Even with a 115 LSA, the result would be 0, which would still result in a rough idle.
You could run a 224/228 (very popular grind) on a 115 LSA, would result in a -4, should give you a very tolerable idle. A 224/224 on a 114 LSA would be about the same, and a 224/224 on a 115 would give you a -6, and a very stock-like idle.
One good thing about the LS2 is that it will idle better than an LS1 with the same exact cam, due to the extra displacement (cubes).
For example, I ran a 218/224 cam on a 114 LSA in my previous LS1. Adding the two durations together, then dividing by 2 gives an average duration of 221. Doubling the LSA gives 228. Result is a -7, which gives an excellent idle. It was almost impossible to tell that it had an aftermarket cam in it.
Let's take another example, a 228/232 on a 112 LSA. Average duration is 230, LSA doubled is 224, resulting in a +6. This cam will barely idle at all. Even with a 115 LSA, the result would be 0, which would still result in a rough idle.
You could run a 224/228 (very popular grind) on a 115 LSA, would result in a -4, should give you a very tolerable idle. A 224/224 on a 114 LSA would be about the same, and a 224/224 on a 115 would give you a -6, and a very stock-like idle.
One good thing about the LS2 is that it will idle better than an LS1 with the same exact cam, due to the extra displacement (cubes).
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 903
Likes: 5
From: Miami FL
Joe, for what you want a 224 intake lobe is more than sufficient. My but at FTI grinds a 224/228 .600/.600 and it comes on a 111lsa. Maximum area under the curve, but you can have him spec it slightly different. IE: wider lsa to clean up idle and driveability. This should be able to hit 410-420whp/385-400tq.
I may be upgrading to something myself later this year like a :
236/240 .630/.610 111lsa .
Dougie
I may be upgrading to something myself later this year like a :
236/240 .630/.610 111lsa .
Dougie