Hey Gene;

Rob had that unit put on by someone else, I know you werent flaming him and you have a very valid point/ The vendors that sell us this stuff should definately do the due diligence to make sure the thing works AND is safe.
Sounds like the unit has been updated, but is there anykind of a recall? Doesn't look like it.

 

Excuse me. It's not supoposed to move AT ALL.

 

True, but there is a large rubber D doughnut holding the flange on the rack, centered above the ~3/4 inch wide mounting surface the similar width clamp hold it to and the doughnut has rubber edged covering the D flange on the rack and burries the clamp and mounting edge of the support....that rubber does have SOME lateral flex in it...but I found on my install the flex was about 1/16 inch total...laterally...

now having said that....my frame did flex a bit with the wheels being turned in the garage, weight on, obviously but with that cross support on the upper arms, it's rock solid,....

 

First of all: DO NOT DRIVE YOUR CAR!
Something is loose, bending, broken, rusted, etc...
It is not safe! Frankly, that scares me and it's not even my car.

Now, I'll try to explain a little about how that steering gear is mounted. It's a strap-style (as if that wasn't obvious). The straps on each side serve a different purpose from one another. The one on the driver's side holds the steering gear in place in all directions. It takes ALL of the lateral (side to side) forces from the steering system. The one on the passenger's side does not support any lateral forces at all. It's an isolator that's designed only to resist vertical and fire/aft loading.

What you're seeing (obviously) is that the bracket or something on the driver's side is flexing under the loads from the tie rods. The strap on the passenger's side doesn't provide meaningful lateral resistance, so it allows the rack to slide. When you're steering in a parking lot, those steering loads can easily be in the range of 1500-2000 pounds. That is a LOT of force! All of that force is being resisted by the bracket on the driver's side. Clearly, something is flexing under that load, and is flexing a LOT! With that much flex and that much load, things tend to fatigue in a hurry.

The one-sided loading is why I like the "bracket" design that Flaming River uses. They essentially fabricate a subframe that connects the framerails. The lateral loading is then supported by the subframe and transferred to both framerails. The cantilever forces are better managed than in a single-sided bracket that hangs below the frame.

Before you swap the bracket for a new one, make sure you know what is flexing and where! Don't assume it's the bracket. Look closely while someone else steers the car. Is the frame flexing? Is something loose? Is it just the bracket?

Good luck!

 

Thanks for your concern/comments but I think if you read my threads that you would notice that I already took the car to 2 different specialty hot rod shops to get a qualified opinion of the situation which was confirming that I thought being it is ONLY the mounting bracket and not the frame that is flexing. The main purpose of this post is now to make others aware of a potentially dangerous problem describing the symptoms and video showing the problem. I will be installing the new bracket next week probably with additional reinforcements once it arrives as well as adding a passenger side lateral support bracket that will make sure that this thing does not move on me again.

 

Honestly, Throw that POS in the trash can. Try the Jeep box, or something else. If it was poorly designed in the first place, the same people are designing the fix.

 

thats pretty effin scary (videos)

I just removed that upgrade off my xmas wish list.

 

Let me clarify that this is unusual and not anything that we expect to see in operation. We are looking into the reason why carpedm is experiencing so much movement in that area. Believe me that we want to know why it is happening more than you do. People's lives are potentially on the line (certainly their car) and this is our livelihood. Making a good, safe product is extremely important to us. We are not some big corporate monolith. We are enthusiasts just like all of you. I have personally driven 50,000 miles with this steering system and my wife drives our Corvette too. If that isn't personally invested in the quality of the product then I don't know what is.

carpedm, if I didn't stress it before then let me echo what ddecart stated. Don't drive the car until you find the problem. Your new brackets should to there on Monday. Check your frame for any cracks in that area as well.

Bill Pk, if you think that nothing moves around in the stock steering I suggest you go to the garage right now, get your wife to turn the steering wheel back and forth quickly and see how much the frame flexes and the steering box moves. You will be surprised.

 

[QUOTE=

Bill Pk, if you think that nothing moves around in the stock steering I suggest you go to the garage right now, get your wife to turn the steering wheel back and forth quickly and see how much the frame flexes and the steering box moves. You will be surprised.[/QUOTE]


That last sentence I have to agree with....

 

it looks to me like the rubber isolator on the drivers side is responsible for the movement. Maybe it has softened up? Can you tighten down on the strap any more?. Maybe you have the wrong size strap? Is it bottomed out. Any washers in there?

You'd think someone would have come up with a poly isolator. the whole point of R&P is to have percise steering so you don't want it to move at all. Spongy rubber lets things move.

 

TV, if you ream my post above in MY install that flex in that D doughnut bushing is a lateral 1/16 inch side/side ....any of the rest is frame, and that's taken out by the cross support....

I say the POS is solid man...serious...

 

look at the second vid down. It looks to me like all the slop is in the rubber doughnut. Maybe the clamp is not squeezing it tight enough?

I do agree that the bracket actually looks stiff. i don't see the frame moving although its probably is but not detectable by the naked eye.

edit. after a second review of all the vids the brakets are indeed flexing. its all junk. Gene take a second look. Its all moving.

 

I never said that. I said nothing should move at all.

 

That may be so. But it should not. A flaw in the stock steering DOES NOT justify a flaw in an aftermarket unit. Specially if it's a $1,000 CURE.
I bet for $1,000 I can fix the frame so it does not flex at all.

 

I have a home made version, there is no flex what so ever in the bracket or the frame even parked on asphalt. But Mine is made from 1/4" plate with 3 stiffening ribs.

It looks to me like the bracket is broken or cracked. Something is wrong.

 

I just looked mine over and after 3.5 years/35k miles it hasn't moved. I am unable to see any flex in the brackets.

 

Hello Speed Direct,
Can you post a picture of this new and improved bracket along the original and explain why the new one corrects the problem?
Thanks!

 

I will post pics tomorrow as my camera battery just died and I am tired and pissed. I got the new bracket from Steeriods and it had 2 additional gussets on the large vertical bracket and nothing new on the 4 bolted bracket under the frame rail mount. Anyway....I rip everything off (45 minutes....first time and I am doing this in a parking garage so not the easiest with mosquitos bitting me) and inspect the old parts. I can see where the 4 bolted under the frame mount braket is bent between the two mounting bolts to the vertical bracket. I proceed to put it all back together and then notice that the 2 holes that are suppose to line up from the under frame 4 bolt bracket do not line up with the veritical bracket. They are punched 2~3/16" too high. I tried ever which way and it won't line up correctly. I had everything loose...and then tried to tighten it all down in some fashion and the end result was that the 4 bolt under the frame bracket would not be sitting on the frame tightly. I need washers between the frame and the 4 bolt bracket to account for the holes being punched too high. Also the extra plate on frame mount did not align and therefore the bracket was not sitting flush to the frame. lastly...the angle that the 4 bolt bracket meets the vertical bracket is not the same and therefore when you torque down the bolts it will bend the metal around the corner of the vertical support to make it sit flush. I know this is probably all hard to visualize so I will post a video/pics tomorrow after I get a rest as this is not fun and now I won't have my car for the weekend.

 

Carpedm, I think you really deserve to be angry. I'm feeling disgusted only because I invested my time reading about it and putting it on my todo list. So. I can imagine how you feel! Those things aren't cheap and now on top of it your spending your time under the car troubleshooting it (which is way beyond loosening and tightening nuts and bolts) instead of being in the car enjoying all the wonderful benefits that you see on the website. From their reply, they don't have any mechanical anaylsis tools - they use a computer form of pencil and paper to sketch things out and make them look nice. Where large companies with resources invest in analysis tools, smaller companies use eyeball engineering techniques to design ("looks good" or "looks like it will work nice") and then have their wifes who run the test department drive around with it (not exactly at the limits that you might see on a track). But individual personalized timely customer support that you don't get at a large company helps you feel better - right?

I'd really like to see that photo. Thanks for posting this issue.

 

here are a ton of pics...I decided to go at it again this morning before going to the office

Inside frame rail pics...hardly any rust






mis-alignment from large vertical bracket to the under the frame 4 bolted bracket

Notice the gap between the two brackets where they are suppose to bolt together

gap from the other side

another view of the gap


btw...."Mind The Gap" (sorry could not resist and for anybody who has been to London they know what I am saying)

large vertical bracket fitment...it fits like a glove with the new gusset against the crossmember it is like it was made from the factory this way.








Now this is the only part that needs trimming being the spacer for the step in the frame rail...but if I do the difference in the alignment holes will actually be worse. I need the 4 bolted under frame bracket lower...not higher!!!

see this pic...I need the bracket lower to align better with the holes


Old bracket pics...you can see where it bent


here it is hard to see but from the previous install you can actually see where the thread of the bolts have cut their pattern into the bracket perfectly.

pic of the opposite side

pics of large vertical bracket




So...this is my tiresome story book for now. I think the best solution is to get both these brackets made without the 2 holes that are mis-aligned and then after I install and bolt everything up trimming the frame rail step spacer I will then drill out my own two holes. I don't want to "elongate" (sp?) the holes as I believe this is a bandaid and not the solution. I fear elongating the holes will allow the chance for movement of the bolt within the bracket and hence causing my problem all over again. I spoke with Chris (69myway) as he did my install in December to see if he had any issues and he did not note any specific issues except that this is a very tight fitting system and you have to tackle the tightening process in a round about way to get everything to fit correctly. I don't know if the previous bracket alignment was a little better as there is no way in hell I could tighten this all down and not put so much pressure that it starts to bend or snap. Again...I can see where the thread from the bolts have grooved themselves into my old brackets for the 2 holes that are misaligned. I am still not certain about the angle of mis-alignment where the 2 "new" brackets are bolted together to provide lateral support. It seems like they should be flat when they meet and so when I go to bolt them together I will be creating a bend in the bracket to accomodate the mis-alignment and I think weakening the lateral support system since it is already bending. Trimming for the frame rail step will not help this either as then I am still limited by the 4 bolts that it is bolted to the frame so I am screwed either way unless I elongage the holes for the 4 bolts for this new bracket to pivot into a better alignment position. Ugghh!!! I am new to this stuff but I am definitely earning my keep quickly and having fun still